Where is that pit bull thread when I need it?

[bigb]

My brother-in-law has a pitbull. It's certainly never showed any signs of aggression towards me or my kids. My neighbor two doors down has a German Shepherd from hell. That dog almost killed a neighbors dog and has bit at least two humans, one bad enough to take to the doctor. But growing up, we had a neighbor with a German Shepherd and they never had any problems with it. One of the funnest and nicest dogs I've ever associated with. I've worked in houses with all kinds of dogs in them. The only problem I've ever had in that situation are the little yappers. They always try to take a piece out of my heel after they let me past. I hate those damn things. I swear one day it's going to happen and I'm going to turn around and kick the dog all way down the street. Why would you let someone in your house to work and let your dog go after them?

 

[7StraightIsGreat]

Trout Wrote:

There is a reason you can't have a Tiger, Chimp, Wolf, or Bear as a pet, and I think that PB's are in the same class.

Actually, my family pets growing up were 2 malamute/wolf hybrids who's bloodlines were about half wolf. They were the most gentle, loving, and loyal pets I've had to date. However, having the size of a malamute and the tenacity of a wolf made them extremely dangerous when fighting other dogs. The male we had got into it quite a few times with other large dogs and the results were devestating for the other animal. While I tend to defend wolf hybrids, I can totally understand how a mistreated one can become a bigger danger than most of your normal breeds.

It's the same problem with pitbulls. I dislike the breed, but I also understand that it has just as much to do with the idiots who own them. It's hard to outlaw a breed when the majority of the problem is the people. Up in Ogden, if you go into the animal shelter I'd take a guess that as much as 80% of the dogs up there are Pitt Bulls that are no longer wanted. As has already been mentioned in this tread, there's this type of gangland aura associated with those dogs and all of the wanna be thugs feel like they gotta own one. Maybe shooting the owners in the head is the best answer?

 

[One Brow]

Luckily those dogs attacked a big Polly and not a child or elderly person --

It's not just luck. Pit bulls were bred to attack other dogs, but not attack humans. It's a couple of centuries of selection at work. Of course, abuse can overcome that breeding.

 

[moevillini]

I hate them.
...Anyhow, what are your thoughts on Pitbulls? Do you agree with me that they should all be shot in the head?

Discuss.

are you speaking of dogs here, or just metaphorically? because this seems to be a very pitbull type of comment ;-)


anyhow, I'd oppose a blanket ban, but support sanctions against irresponsible owners

I also think Candrew raises a valid point in that you can't always know the pedigree/breeding of the dog you're getting, but again, the responsibility to mitigate their dog's aggressive behavior falls on the owner - and if they end up with a dog that can't be socialized, they should remove it from their home.


on a related animal front, I just heard a news story about a growing problem with feral pigs
https://www.therepublic.com/view/story/fbb2c3ea4a8d41c1bfbcc1ed5814559c/IL--Feral-Swine/

 

[Scat]

OK, here's my take on the subject and this based on both mine and my wive's experience having worked around dogs for years.

Pitbulls are dangerous for several reasons.

1. It's usually dickheads with a macho complex that keep pitbulls. They think they're badass so they have to have a badass dog and raise them thusly. Because of a pitbulls inherent proclivity towards aggression this is a recipe for a dog that is anti-social and aggressive.

2. Pitbulls are highly territorial. This isn't a bad thing if they stay in their own, fenced yard but how many times does a dog get out? Once a pitbull starts roaming a neighborhood they expand the territory that they call their own including your yard.

3. Pitbulls that aren't spayed/neutered are even more territorial and during heat become highly aggressive. If it were up to me I would at least enforce a law that all pitts need to be spayed/neutered.

4. Pitbulls are inherently bred to attack and fight other dogs. Unless raised with another dog they don't play well with others. Anyone walking their dog through the neighborhood is at risk if there is a pitbull nearby.

5. This leads me to #5 which is somewhat in contradiction to #4 but pitbulls that are raised together have a very strong pack instinct. It is when pitbulls get together in a group and start roaming the neighborhood that they become highly dangerous to humans. Typically a single pit wioll go after other dogs but when in groups go after humans.

6. I despise the argument that if you ban pitbulls you need to ban Dobermans, Sheppards, Rottweillers, etc. How many attacks by these other breeds do you ever hear about? While the above three breeds have reputations as guard/attack dogs they simply don't have the levels of aggression and anti-social behaviour bred into them that pitbulls do. When a Doberman attacks you might go get stitches. When a pitbull attacks you'd better hope he is by himself and you'd better hope that there's someone around to distract the dog. Even a pitbulls physiology is that when attacking they simply inflict more damage.

This took place just 2 days ago. Read the story and see how much of it fits the profile I've laid out.

https://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52844141-78/dogs-yarbrough-attacked-dog.html.csp

I'm with Ballou the Bear on this one.

 

[moevillini]

anyhow, this thread makes me realize it's been a long, long time since I last saw the movie The Doberman Gang

 

[GVC]

It's not just luck. Pit bulls were bred to attack other dogs, but not attack humans. It's a couple of centuries of selection at work. Of course, abuse can overcome that breeding.

Wait, are you saying Polynesians are dogs?

 

[LogGrad98]

Gotta be careful with the "how many attacks do you hear about" argument. How many attacks by hippos do you hear about? How many attacks by sharks? So by that standard sharks are WAY more dangerous than hippos, even though hippos kill more people every year than sharks do, by quite a wide margin. The media is sensationalistic by nature. Shock sells. And since pitbulls have the rep for being mean, it riles people up when they hear about a pitbull attack, and that sells.

That said, I lived about a block away from a guy who bred bulls. He was very careful to train his dogs and socialize them properly. In lots of ways he echoed what scat says about the dogs. They had been bred to fight for so long, and are still bred for "perfection" in the breed, which carries forward those same tendencies of aggression and viciousness along with the physical traits to support the temperament.

In Fernley, NV in 2004 a 12-year-old boy was attacked and nearly killed by a pitbull (he was a friend of my oldest son at the time). The families of the dog and the boy had lived next to each other for over a decade and they both said the dog had been gentle and kind all that time. The boy had regularly taken it for walks and played in the other families yard and in his own yard, they had practically been raised together. One day the family with the dog were repairing their fence and their dog got out of the backyard and went around to the side of the house, where the boy was sitting on the lawn. The owner of the dog followed it around the yard to bring it back home just in time to see it charge down on the unaware boy. It almost destroyed his face, took off part of the kids hand, and caused multiple lacerations and broken bones. They had to kill it to get it away from the boy. No one could explain it, the dog had never done anything like that before and had obviously know the boy and the other family. Everyone in the neighborhood said it was a nice gentle dog and were just shocked. But my neighbor the breeder said that it was possible that just that one break in routine, getting out through the broken fence, was enough for the bull to go full-on territorial or to see the boy as a threat or a rival in some way. He had seen it happen before.

I'm not sure if I could support a full-on ban, but spay/neuter should be a requirement as should behavioral and socialization training by a pit breeder.

 

[LogGrad98]

Interesting to find out my dog just had killer puppies:

https://dogbitelaw.com/dog-bite-statistics/the-breeds-most-likely-to-kill.html

 

[Bronco70]

When my sons were younger, they had a sitter whose house they stayed at during the day. They had a pitbull in the house that was gentle and pretty much minded its own business. Well, until one morning my wife took the boys to drop them off. A little earlier, the sitter's two sons had been wrestling and the dog, who was not involved in the horseplay, suddenly went berserk on the smaller boy. Two surgeries and hundreds of stitches later, they got his face put back together, sort of. They put the dog down, of course.

Personally, I believe they are dangerous, not only because of breeding, but because they are frequently owned by people who can barely manage themselves, let alone a dog of that type.

 

[Bronco70]

Gotta be careful with the "how many attacks do you hear about" argument. How many attacks by hippos do you hear about? How many attacks by sharks? So by that standard sharks are WAY more dangerous than hippos, even though hippos kill more people every year than sharks do, by quite a wide margin. The media is sensationalistic by nature. Shock sells. And since pitbulls have the rep for being mean, it riles people up when they hear about a pitbull attack, and that sells.

This is an interesting and valid point, and made me want to look into it. I found the following:

https://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2010.php

33 U.S. fatal dog attacks occurred in 2010. Despite being regulated in Military Housing areas and over 650 U.S. cities, pit bulls led these attacks accounting for 67% (22). Pit bulls make up approximately 5% of the total U.S. dog population.

In 2010, the combination of pit bulls (22) and rottweilers (4) accounted for 79% of all fatal attacks. In the 6-year period from 2005 to 2010, this same combination accounted for 71% (129) of the total recorded deaths (181).

 

[Agoxlea]

I don't ever want a pitbull. They are ugly dogs, but I have a German Shepherd and have had a Rottweiler. They both have the same bad reputation for no reason. I totally disagree with you. It's definitely the owners' fault, not the breed of dog.