Where is that pit bull thread when I need it?

[Bronco70]

And that can (and does) happen with just about any dog breed. It happens more often with pit bulls because that is the trashy losers' dog of choice.

You're right, any breed of dog is capable of an attack. However, the fact that 67% of fatal attacks are committed by a breed that makes up 5% of the dog population is a fairly telling statistic.

In reading up a little further on this, I came across a few sources that agree on a basic difference between dog attacks by breed. According to many of them, pit bulls (and to a lesser extent, rottweilers) attack to kill, while almost any other breed (including German Shepherds) attack to intimidate.

Responsible ownership does lower the risk, but to suggest that any inclination toward aggression is purely environmental is a hollow argument.

 

[freakazoid]

And that can (and does) happen with just about any dog breed. It happens more often with pit bulls because that is the trashy losers' dog of choice.

I agree with this, but I do believe that guard dog breeds have protective/aggressive instincts that make it more likely for them to bite. The only dog I've ever been bitten by that actually scared me instead of just pissing me off was a German Shepard. It was my brother's dog, and I used to take care of it when they were out of town. It was extrememly territorial. Anyone who approached the fence outside would be greeted by a dog out for blood. Once you walked into the house and through the back door, he was your buddy.

One time I had just finished playing with him, and I was walking into the house right behind my brother. Something instinctive kicked in and he grabbed me by the ankle. Hurt like hell. Funny thing is, I never held it against that dog because I understood why it happened. I continued taking care of it for them, and it never bit me again. When they weren't home, I could open the door into the back yard, and that dog would be in attack mode, with just the screen door between us. As soon as I opened the screen door to let him in the house, he's come in and the visciousness gave way immediately to friendliness. It was the damnedest thing.

 

[bigb]

I don't entirely trust my own dog at this stage of her development.

The fact that you can't entirely trust your own dog after a year and a half is very telling to me. That isn't exactly a vote of confidence for pit bulls.
I have two labs. I grew up with labs in our family. In fact, the only time I haven't had a lab in my life was in the first two years of my marriage while I lived in an apartment. The weekend after I moved into my first house, I bought a lab. I trust those dogs with one exception: My yellow lab will chew up anything left in our yard.

 

[billyshelby]

Timeframe is not the issue. As puppies (0-1), dogs of any breed rarely exhibit problems. It's when they hit 1-3 that issues surface. I started formal training with my dog a few months ago when I noticed she had problems with little dogs. They cause her intense anxiety and, for now, I won't allow her to be in situations where she plays with little dogs. Big dogs, sure. And I have Zero concerns she will ever bite a person. She makes a clear distinction between people and animals and is extremely docile around humans.

Every dog has different problems. I have a second puppy that, like your dog, destroys everything I own. She's done unspeakable things to my couch. Yet she's harmless to all living things. With her, I'm basically dealing with separation anxiety issues. If I leave, she goes on the warpath. With the other, I'm dealing with fear issues. I have to manage her social interaction much more carefully.

But they're no more fully formed as 'teenagers' than people are.

 

[SaltyDawg]

You're right, any breed of dog is capable of an attack. However, the fact that 67% of fatal attacks are committed by a breed that makes up 5% of the dog population is a fairly telling statistic.

In reading up a little further on this, I came across a few sources that agree on a basic difference between dog attacks by breed. According to many of them, pit bulls (and to a lesser extent, rottweilers) attack to kill, while almost any other breed (including German Shepherds) attack to intimidate.

Responsible ownership does lower the risk, but to suggest that any inclination toward aggression is purely environmental is a hollow argument.

I think such a high percentage of dog attacks are from pit bulls because that is the trashy losers' dog of choice.

If rots, dobies, or shepherds were the "cool" dog for losers, then you'd probably see that breed with the highest percentage of attacks.

 

[SaltyDawg]

The fact that you can't entirely trust your own dog after a year and a half is very telling to me. That isn't exactly a vote of confidence for pit bulls.
I have two labs. I grew up with labs in our family. In fact, the only time I haven't had a lab in my life was in the first two years of my marriage while I lived in an apartment. The weekend after I moved into my first house, I bought a lab. I trust those dogs with one exception: My yellow lab will chew up anything left in our yard.

I love labs. I have one too. They're probably my favorite breed. But I have seen a couple of mean ones in my day.

It's all in how you raise it. Good owners have good dogs, regardless of the breed. Bad owners have bad dogs.

Some dogs require more work than others, no doubt. But in the end, they are all just dogs and will act the way they are taught.

 

[freakazoid]

There are probably thousands of pit bulls that have never hurt anyone. If there were a way to know which ones would behave, and which wouldn't, this would be an entirely different problem.

Owners can be a huge part of the problem. But, as I cited by personal experience in my original post in this thread, being a responsible owner is no guarantee. The dog that attacked that kid was not neglected, mistreated, or teased. He was a really good dog that snapped, unprovoked. You just don't know.

I don't disagree completely, but I think this gets blown out of proportion. Most dogs that do something like that have probably shown signs at times of a potential problem. People either ignore the signs because they don't want to believe their family pet could be dangerous, or they just don't want to take the blame for a situation they allowed to happen. If you're going to own a pit bull, it's probably not a good idea to pretend it's just like any other family dog. If you're someone who can't keep your dog from getting out and roaming the neighborhood, you probably shouldn't own a pit bull.

 

[LogGrad98]

No pit bull is born with clipped ears. If you see one with clipped ears, someone purposely clipped them. It's losers like that who give pit bulls a bad name.

They are just dogs. They'll act the way they are taught to act.

If there was some way to track it, I would bet the vast majority of pit bull attacks are from dogs that have been owned by a loser at some point. (and by loser, I mean someone that did not raise the dog right and either on purpose or inadvertently made it a mean dog)

The point is clipping the ears is part of the official standard for the breed, which means that a breeder who feels that is a telling sign of the high end of the breed will do that to every puppy, meaning you cannot make assumptions based on that feature alone. Much like bobbing the tail is a breed standard that is optional on some breeds according to the AKC. It does not necessarily have anything to do with a negligent or homicidal owner.

 

[SaltyDawg]

The point is clipping the ears is part of the official standard for the breed, which means that a breeder who feels that is a telling sign of the high end of the breed will do that to every puppy, meaning you cannot make assumptions based on that feature alone. Much like bobbing the tail is a breed standard that is optional on some breeds according to the AKC. It does not necessarily have anything to do with a negligent or homicidal owner.

And why do they clip the ears and tails?

It absolutely is telling if the ears/tail are clipped. Even if they were done by a previous owner, they have still probably been taught to be mean at some point.

 

[LogGrad98]

I think such a high percentage of dog attacks are from pit bulls because that is the trashy losers' dog of choice.

If rots, dobies, or shepherds were the "cool" dog for losers, then you'd probably see that breed with the highest percentage of attacks.

This is far too simplistic an argument. You cannot quantify "loserness" of the owners. You can't tell from the data which owners were "losers" and which were like the guy in Fernley who by all accounts was a responsible owner. In fact in most cases I have read about in the news they identify the dog as having been gentle and loving up to the point of the attack. I haven't heard of many where they reported that the guy in the ratty trailer wearing the wife beater and mullet fed his dog raw meet and kicked and whipped it daily then set it loose on the town at night.

 

[SaltyDawg]

This is far too simplistic an argument. You cannot quantify "loserness" of the owners. You can't tell from the data which owners were "losers" and which were like the guy in Fernley who by all accounts was a responsible owner. In fact in most cases I have read about in the news they identify the dog as having been gentle and loving up to the point of the attack. I haven't heard of many where they reported that the guy in the ratty trailer wearing the wife beater and mullet fed his dog raw meet and kicked and whipped it daily then set it loose on the town at night.

Funny, because almost all of the pit bull attacks I have read about had owners that I wouldn't let watch my kids.

I know there is no data on this. I don't think it's even possible to track. But it's funny that most of the the people in the "pits are inherently viscous" camp have never owned one, and most people that have owned one are in the "pits turn out the way they are raised to be" camp.

 

[LogGrad98]

And why do they clip the ears and tails?

It absolutely is telling if the ears/tail are clipped. Even if they were done by a previous owner, they have still probably been taught to be mean at some point.

https://www.realpitbull.com/akcstandard.html

Head
Medium length, deep through, broad skull, very pronounced cheek muscles, distinct stop; and ears are set high.
Ears - Cropped or uncropped, the latter preferred. Uncropped ears should be short and held rose or half prick. Full
drop to be penalized. Eyes - Dark and round, low down in skull and set far apart. No pink eyelids. Muzzle - Medium
length, rounded on upper side to fall away abruptly below eyes. Jaws well defined. Underjaw to be strong and
have biting power. Lips close and even, no looseness. Upper teeth to meet tightly outside lower teeth in front.
Nose definitely black.

https://www.realpitbull.com/ukcstandard.html

EARS - Ears are high set and may be natural or cropped without preference. Prick or flat, wide ears are not
desired.

https://www.realpitbull.com/aadrstandard.html

Ears

Natural or cropped. The natural ears should ideally be medium sized and rose shaped (folded back), but half prick
(semi erect) or half drop ears are acceptable. Full drop and fully erect (bat) ears are undesirable. The ears should
be set on the skull so that an invisible line could be drawn from the outside corner of the eye to midway between
the top and bottom of the inner formation of the ear (burr), when viewed from the front.

Again, cropped ears can be part of the breed standard. It does not mean anything more than that particular breeder felt it was a better look for the dog. If you want to make wild assumptions that's fine, but none of the major breeding associations make a big deal out of cropped or natural ears. You cannot make any kind of judgement about the dog, breeder, or owner based on that characteristic.

 

[SaltyDawg]

https://www.realpitbull.com/akcstandard.html



https://www.realpitbull.com/ukcstandard.html



https://www.realpitbull.com/aadrstandard.html



Again, cropped ears can be part of the breed standard. It does not mean anything more than that particular breeder felt it was a better look for the dog. If you want to make wild assumptions that's fine, but none of the major breeding associations make a big deal out of cropped or natural ears. You cannot make any kind of judgement about the dog, breeder, or owner based on that characteristic.

The ears and tail are clipped so they aren't liabilities in a fight. It may be considered "standard" by some breeders, but that is because they are trying to breed a viscous dog. It absolutely is telling if the pit has clipped ears/tail.

 

[LogGrad98]

The ears and tail are clipped so they aren't liabilities in a fight. It may be considered "standard" by some breeders, but that is because they are trying to breed a viscous dog. It absolutely is telling if the pit has clipped ears/tail.

You are of course entitled to your opinion. This sure doesn't sound like it fits that mold though.

https://www.gopitbull.com/general-discussion/10690-why-do-people-crop-ears.html

But I forget that many people sharing an opinion different than yours are all simply wrong, so you can go on living in your delusion that any and all pitbulls with cropped ears have it done solely so they dog can be a meaner fighter.

 

[GoJazz]

I think we should ban all dogs and cats. These are wild animals that we only think we have domesticated. Pit Bull, German Shepard, or Fox Hound. They all have mouths and and can bite. I would also ban guns, cars, ropes, and any other item that could hurt someone with a unresponable owner. I mean it has nothing to do with the owner and everything to do with the animal, gun, drink, or item...

 

[SaltyDawg]

You are of course entitled to your opinion. This sure doesn't sound like it fits that mold though.

https://www.gopitbull.com/general-discussion/10690-why-do-people-crop-ears.html

But I forget that many people sharing an opinion different than yours are all simply wrong, so you can go on living in your delusion that any and all pitbulls with cropped ears have it done solely so they dog can be a meaner fighter.

I know you had to see several links similar to this in your search... It's not my opinion, this is a fact that anyone who really knows about pit bulls already understands.
https://hqbullies.com/info/pitbull-ear-cropping-styles/

" Originally bred for bull-baiting, pit bulls historically had their ears cropped to prevent damage to them during a fight"

 

[LogGrad98]

I know you had to see several links similar to this in your search... It's not my opinion, this is a fact that anyone who really knows about pit bulls already understands.
https://hqbullies.com/info/pitbull-ear-cropping-styles/

" Originally bred for bull-baiting, pit bulls historically had their ears cropped to prevent damage to them during a fight"

So of course, logically, EVERYONE who ever crops a pitbulls ears TODAY does it SOLELY to prevent damage during the fight. Gotcha. Stereotyping at its best.

Cropping the ears is just for looks, showing, although I have heard that sometimes cropping is recommend for certain health issues. There are other breeds that get there ears cropped such as boxers, great danes, doobee's, other bully breeds, etc. Getting the tail docked is a style also and for certain breeds is a must for the show ring, however it is a big no no for pitbulls.

Cropping the ears is a personal choice. People do it for the look, showing, etc.

Primarily for looks, but I will tell you my reason. I did it because the first pitbull we had my brother cropped his ears, so that is what I got accustomed to as far as the look of a pitbull, so I ran with it

Anywho, the cropped ears are traditional of being a working dog, many of the mastiff and early bulldog types had cut ears to show they're working dogs and this might have also been a form of ownership ID to distinguish particular dogs from the stray masses. (This is still done with many mastiff/herding breeds in their native countries.)

https://www.gopitbull.com/general-discussion/10690-why-do-people-crop-ears.html

Of course, they are all probably lying, since they disagree with you as to the reason they cropped their dogs' ears. The only reason anyone would ever crop a pitbulls ears is for fighting. You have completely proven that. No one who has ever owned a pitbull, in the history of the breed, every cropped their ears for looks or some other reason, only for fighting. Got it.

 

[LogGrad98]

A pit bull puppy should have it's ears cut anywhere from 9-13 weeks of age. The time frame varies according to the vet that you are using but this is the optimal timeframe. This in no way is done for fighting purposes. We would never fight our dogs, as they are our family members. I feel that having the ears cut makes a big difference in the look of the dog. It is purely cosmetic and provides a clean polished look. However, leaving the ears uncut is a personal preference that you will have to decide for yourself.

https://www.bryantsreddevils.com/Faqs.html

Of course this guy is probably secretly teaching his dogs to fight and kill and fights them for money. Since NO ONE ever crops ears for any other reason than to put the dog in fights. In fact I found the blatant lie on his website:

Are pit bulls good with young children?

Pit bulls are GREAT with young children. Our children have played with our pits ever since they could walk, and before they could walk we made sure that the dogs seen them and knew that they are a part of our family. Our kids, ages 7 and 9 years old, play with our pit bulls daily. The dogs look out for them and protect them if they feel it's necessary. They would never harm our children because they see them as their kids also.

That blatant lie is an obvious sign of someone who secretly crops the dogs' ears so he can fight them. Obviously.

 

[Scat]

Of course, they are all probably lying, since they disagree with you as to the reason they cropped their dogs' ears.

They aren't lying. They are just flat out wrong as their world view does not match that of Salty's.

 

[SaltyDawg]

So of course, logically, EVERYONE who ever crops a pitbulls ears TODAY does it SOLELY to prevent damage during the fight. Gotcha. Stereotyping at its best.









https://www.gopitbull.com/general-discussion/10690-why-do-people-crop-ears.html

Of course, they are all probably lying, since they disagree with you as to the reason they cropped their dogs' ears. The only reason anyone would ever crop a pitbulls ears is for fighting. You have completely proven that. No one who has ever owned a pitbull, in the history of the breed, every cropped their ears for looks or some other reason, only for fighting. Got it.

Maybe they didn't want it to really be mean, they just wanted it to look mean. Either way, it is still a pretty good indicator about the type of owners that dog has had.

I guess if you don't understand what the cropped ears are for, then it's no surprise you think all pit bulls are inherently evil.