The handle is arguably the hardest thing to develop for the players already in the NBA, regardless of their work ethic. There are many incredibly committed 3-and-D players who never managed to develop their dribbling ability.
Who Do You Prefer Among Ace Bailey, Tre Johnson & V.J. Edgecombe? (Poll)
- Thread starter Ferguson_Mellochill
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Ok, but the hardest thing to improve is actually athleticism which VJ already has in spades…
Tremendous Upside
Well-Known Member
I love how a hyper athletic, legit 6'4'' (barefoot) kid is suddenly too small for an NBA SG. Gimme a break. Jordan was 6'4'', Vince and Kobe were 6'5'', Curry is 6'2'', Booker is 6'4''.
VJ can absolutely play the 2 in the league. His final NBA form is probably a lead combo guard, with sky high potential.
HadAnEffectHere
Well-Known Member
VJ's final form in the NBA is probably Jalen Suggs.
Basically 100% of VJ's offense was from
1. Spot-up threes
2. Secondary transition
3. Spot-up threes coming off a curl to get open
4. Transition
5. Open lane for a dunk on a cut
6. Open lane for a dunk on a very hard closeout
And these are all good ways for a role player to score, but when asked to create at all, he was horrible. And I don't think he's an elite enough of a shooter or defender to become a star without any creation as a SG.
Basically 100% of VJ's offense was from
1. Spot-up threes
2. Secondary transition
3. Spot-up threes coming off a curl to get open
4. Transition
5. Open lane for a dunk on a cut
6. Open lane for a dunk on a very hard closeout
And these are all good ways for a role player to score, but when asked to create at all, he was horrible. And I don't think he's an elite enough of a shooter or defender to become a star without any creation as a SG.
Tremendous Upside
Well-Known Member
Once again: college ball does not matter. Baylor was a bad team and they played an awful brand of basketball. Edgecombe's role made no sense. Let's not overanalyze how he played with dudes heading to Switzerland, Germany or the G League.
The only thing that matters in evaluations is this: can player X be effective in the NBA with his skillset?
The fact that VJ is (predictably) moving into the Top 3 means that GM's are pretty much certain that he'll be a better NBA player, and that he was just wasting his time at Baylor.
In a way. You are never going to improve your handle to become Kyrie Irving, but players usually improve their handle based on the needs of their game.
HadAnEffectHere
Well-Known Member
He dribbles at like 1/4 speed, he's not going to be a star in the NBA at all.
This is how the Hornets started their run of awesomeness.
He's literally a consensus top 10pick (and honestly, a lot closer to a consensus top 5 than 10) in a strong draft, so either he's more than a Royce O'Neal, or this draft isn't that strong.
So what would be the response if I said “the last thing we need is another terrible defender” about Tre?
I don’t believe in this statement, but I do believe he is the worst defender in this group. I’ve seen this “the last thing we need” statement posted several times now.
I don’t believe in this statement, but I do believe he is the worst defender in this group. I’ve seen this “the last thing we need” statement posted several times now.
I actually think that statement makes sense, especially for my viewing pleasure the last thing we need is another terrible defender.
I don’t think we have anyone good enough to make us start drafting for need….but if that’s what we want to do, not sure why Tre is escaping that? I feel like our biggest need is definitely defense. At the very least, I’m not sure why this applies to Fears and not Tre.
I think all of these prospects below are “bad” defensive prospects, but I’d rank them like this:
Kas
Kon
Fears
Tre
I have the same ranking. I've gone back to the film a few times to compare and come back with the same.
I should probably watch some full games. I’ve heard a few strong opinions about the defense from film that probably don’t make the cut into the condensed vids. Two specific things I’m watching for:
1) Kas chasing around screens. I actually think he looks pretty bad in the condensed films, but maybe the good moments don’t make it because nothing happens. JE was really high on his effort and ability to chase players.
2) Tre’s off ball defense. A lot of these clips make it onto film. But another thing JE pointed out (who hates Tre) is that he will stand and sort of face guard his man off the ball. So he’ll be just standing out guarding his guy as if he’s Steph Curry (when in reality that guy probably sucks) leaving his team exposed in a 4v4. IMO, Tre actually looks fine when he’s tested 1:1. But maybe he’s even more of a space cadet than I thought.
FWIW I would put Traore in this group just ahead of Fears. Also FWIW I have softened on Tre quite a bit and don't think he is in a tier of his own as a bad defender.
He's definitely the worst defender, but had enough good moments and seemed to improve as the season went on, and his length, strength, and athleticism makes me feel better about the type of defender he can be in the NBA.
I would also say that while Kon was generally good, I could see him being the worst of them all in the NBA. He was really bad in help and recover situations because he is so noticeably unathletic in those type of situations. He MIGHT not have the baseline athleticism to required to defend in the NBA.
Chargers Jazz Angels
Well-Known Member
This is a mixed bag because my gut says Tre, but the Jazz need someone willing to play defense, and I think VJ is the safer pick.
fishonjazz
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I would say that I have never used that phrase and don't see it being used very often.
Just pick the player that you think will be the best.
You have it a bit backwards. You don't draft a player at 5 to compensate for the defensive shortcomings of your middling young prospects. Instead, you try to find a core player in the top 5 and build the team around his strengths and weaknesses. If Keyonte and Brice are not willing to play defense they need to be shipped the heck out, THAT is the fastest and surest way to fix the defensive problems.
For me, a big case for VJ is that even if your focus is 100% finding the star player, it doesn't seem to matter much if the guy was a high usage player before the NBA. The easiest way to get a star is to get one of the elite prospects (like Flagg or Harper). When you look a the next tier of prospects, the stars are fairly split between high usage and low usage guys. Both player types will need a significant amount of development to become a star.
OTOH, it also doesn't seem like drafting a lower usage guy is any safer. They bust just as often.
OTOH, it also doesn't seem like drafting a lower usage guy is any safer. They bust just as often.