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Who gets waived?


Which player(s) will be waived before the season starts?

  • Butler

    Votes: 31 35.2%
  • Dok

    Votes: 25 28.4%
  • NAW

    Votes: 7 8.0%
  • Bolmaro

    Votes: 15 17.0%
  • Stanley Johnson

    Votes: 27 30.7%
  • Saben Lee

    Votes: 53 60.2%
  • Gay

    Votes: 44 50.0%

  • Total voters
    88

idiot

Well-Known Member
Bolmaro’s defense BPM was -0.7 last season. Forrest by comparison is +1.2.

bolmaro is jack of all trades expert at none type of guy. OK at a lot of things but not really good at anything.

He could become the MVP of European league or Chinese league one day. But at the NBA he simply has zero skill that would translate
Please don't tell me you're trusting BPM as the arbiter of defense between these two guys with limited playing time early in their careers.

(By the way, I was pro-Forrest, so I'm not trying to knock him. I'd have been happy for the Jazz to keep him, but given the circumstances, it was just not to be.)

I don't really know where the jack-of-all-trades kind of assessment for Bolmaro is coming from. I have him pegged very differently: very aggressive defender with lots of perimeter defensive potential (may need a bit of refinement, but he's only 22 with limited NBA experience); great potential guarding anyone from 1s - standard-sized wings. OK at playmaking (though I think his pre-draft reputation was higher here than I think he's shown yet). Severely lacking in scoring ability at the NBA level at this point (so becoming a non-NBA league MVP seems like a real stretch, since scoring often factors heavily into that award).
 


idiot

Well-Known Member
To get to the question of the OP:

I'd probably be inclined to cut Lee, Gay, and NAW/Butler (probably NAW since we have such a SG glut and Butler's a bit younger).

But I hope Hardy has no preconceptions going into the season and just ends keeping whoever he thinks is best for the team based on camp. There's a bunch of guys that are really close in my mind.
 

jom2003

Well-Known Member
Please don't tell me you're trusting BPM as the arbiter of defense between these two guys with limited playing time early in their careers.

(By the way, I was pro-Forrest, so I'm not trying to knock him. I'd have been happy for the Jazz to keep him, but given the circumstances, it was just not to be.)

I don't really know where the jack-of-all-trades kind of assessment for Bolmaro is coming from. I have him pegged very differently: very aggressive defender with lots of perimeter defensive potential (may need a bit of refinement, but he's only 22 with limited NBA experience); great potential guarding anyone from 1s - standard-sized wings. OK at playmaking (though I think his pre-draft reputation was higher here than I think he's shown yet). Severely lacking in scoring ability at the NBA level at this point (so becoming a non-NBA league MVP seems like a real stretch, since scoring often factors heavily into that award).
"potential" is the other word for "in development" i.e "not good enough". until bolmaro shows some stuff that is good enough for the NBA, he will struggle seeing the floor.
 

Elizah Huge

Respect All, Fear None
Contributor
We got paid Lee’s entire salary this year from Detroit so I am guessing he likely gets cut.
 

idiot

Well-Known Member
One more thing on Bolmaro:

To me a Caruso type career would be a successful one for him. I think Caruso is a model he can legitimately strive for given the talent/tools he possesses (of course he's likely not to get there, but he's 22 so I'm willing to give him a year or two).
 

idiot

Well-Known Member
"potential" is the other word for "in development" i.e "not good enough". until bolmaro shows some stuff that is good enough for the NBA, he will struggle seeing the floor.
No, in this case, I use potential to mean he has really solid tools that you can easily see succeeding at the NBA level. He struggles seeing the floor in the NBA because he is no offensive threat at all, not because his defense is "not good enough."
 
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SoberasHotRod

Well-Known Member
If we end up having to waive Butler it will be more evidence we should have taken the Laker deal (at least what I imagine was being discussed).

It's not even that I'm super high on him right now, but there is still a little potential there and we should be in a position to see if guys with even the slightest bit of potential could break through.
 

idiot

Well-Known Member
If we end up having to waive Butler it will be more evidence we should have taken the Laker deal (at least what I imagine was being discussed).

It's not even that I'm super high on him right now, but there is still a little potential there and we should be in a position to see if guys with even the slightest bit of potential could break through.
The thing about the Lakers deal is we've never gotten a good handle on what might or might not have been offered from the Lakers side. I think the closest thing we've seen from TJ (and others) is that the two sides were never all that close.

Yesterday, Trevor Lane, of the Lakers Nation podcast, wondered whether the Lakers even offered any FRPs at all. There's a lot of Laker twitter that I've seen (not all, of course) that seemed to think the Jazz should have been happy enough just having Westbook as an expiring and being able to cut down the roster crunch. In other words, they weren't buying that the Lakers should give anything at all for taking on Westbrook. And since Bogey was not worth an UFP on his own (nor were any combination the Jazz could send in the deal, in their view), the Jazz should have just been happy with minimal draft compensation (such as a protected first or some seconds, maybe).
 

SoberasHotRod

Well-Known Member
The thing about the Lakers deal is we've never gotten a good handle on what might or might not have been offered from the Lakers side. I think the closest thing we've seen from TJ (and others) is that the two sides were never all that close.

Yesterday, Trevor Lane, of the Lakers Nation podcast wondered whether the Lakers even offered any FRPs at all. There's a lot of Laker twitter that I've seen (not all, of course) that seemed to think the Jazz should have been happy enough just having Westbook as an expiring and being able to cut down the roster crunch. In other words, they weren't buying that the Lakers should give anything at all for taking on Westbrook. And since Bogey was not worth an UFP on his own (nor were any combination the Jazz could send in the deal, in their view), the Jazz should have just been happy with minimal draft compensation (such as a protected first or some seconds, maybe).

You could be right, but seems like the Lakers were willing to give up one pick. I think they wanted Vando in the deal though, and apparently we're not willing to put him in a deal. If he was really the sticking point to getting an unprotected pick and clearing out our roster, then I think we made the wrong choice, as much as I like Vando and am excited to see him play.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
2020-21 Award Winner
Funny how we all went from being so excited about Butler before the season last year to thinking there's a good chance he gets cut this year. Even the media was really high on him last year, I remember the press conference with Quin during pre-season when he snapped at the reporters and said that so far, they'd asked him twice as many questions about Butler as they had about Rudy and Donovan combined.
I still believe... Summer League was rough but dude was balling in pre-season last year. He will be an NBA player if healthy.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
2020-21 Award Winner
One more thing on Bolmaro:

To me a Caruso type career would be a successful one for him. I think Caruso is a model he can legitimately strive for given the talent/tools he possesses (of course he's likely not to get there, but he's 22 so I'm willing to give him a year or two).
I actually think Lee has more Caruso in him than Bolmaro.

I'm not particularly hopeful with Bolmaro because if you can't shoot outside and you can't finish at the rim... you are basically unplayable unless the other stuff you do is phenomenal.
 

idiot

Well-Known Member
You could be right, but seems like the Lakers were willing to give up one pick. I think they wanted Vando in the deal though, and apparently we're not willing to put him in a deal. If he was really the sticking point to getting an unprotected pick and clearing out our roster, then I think we made the wrong choice, as much as I like Vando and am excited to see him play.
Maybe for Vando in the deal they were. But again, I think the best I've seen is speculation. If you know of anything more specific, I'll be glad to see it.

But at least some Laker advocates (since nobody really seems to know what the team itself was thinking), is that any Jazz deal should be/have been calculated completely by what the players returning to the Jazz were worth in a vacuum to the Lakers (with no consideration of Westbook at all). Once you go there in your mind, then the issue of whether even an UFP should be included really does become questionable.
 


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