Who is the Best Guard or Wing We can Get for Walker Kessler?

[Handlogten's Heros]

Dude... Gay was the best matchup with Kessler in 2 player lineups last year (+11.5 in 326 minutes) KO was the 2nd worst (+1.4 in 726 minutes). Only Sexton was worse.

Its a narrative that people push because it makes sense in their heads. Its not supported by any facts.

FWIW THT was the 2nd best pair last year, Lauri was 3rd. So top 3 fits is the same with this years sample except Gay is replaced by Collins who has dropped to 3rd.

Dude… the Gay Walker minutes were all bench minutes which are very different. Look at the lineup data with KO/Kessler/Lauri from last year. Compare that to this year with Collins. What changed?

Literally just look at Collins/KO/Lauri this year with the starting guard lineup… Kessler/collins as starters with our bricks guards does not work. Spacing is an issue and the defense hasn’t been better.

Saying it’s a stupid narrative is stupid… it is the narrative. It’s a blame pie and it’s not Collins fault… he’s been better than Kessler this year… but they will hurt each others production. You can have one guy that can’t really shoot pass or dribble but if you stack on another iffy shooter who isn’t a creator on top of Lauri with his deficiencies in that area and add in Jc/THT… it doesn’t work. Will need to change something to have a winning formula but isolating two man pairings from limited lineup data doesn’t prove what you think you see.

 

[underdog]

Yeah except Collins is only playing 5.8 minutes more with Kessler than Gay used to last year, and KO has been the worst lineup pair with Kessler thus far.

The problem exists and the guards are the biggest reason based on stats and eyeball test, but Kesslers play is also part of it (based on stats and eyeball test).

However Collins isnt even a factor based on lineup data or eyeball test (or his shooting stats), but only by confirmation bias to the bad fit narrative.

The data we have so far is way too small to draw meaningful conclusions. Let's wait and see what we got.

 

[HermanG]

Dude… the Gay Walker minutes were all bench minutes which are very different. Look at the lineup data with KO/Kessler/Lauri from last year. Compare that to this year with Collins. What changed?

Literally just look at Collins/KO/Lauri this year with the starting guard lineup… Kessler/collins as starters with our bricks guards does not work. Spacing is an issue and the defense hasn’t been better.

Saying it’s a stupid narrative is stupid… it is the narrative. It’s a blame pie and it’s not Collins fault… he’s been better than Kessler this year… but they will hurt each others production. You can have one guy that can’t really shoot pass or dribble but if you stack on another iffy shooter who isn’t a creator on top of Lauri with his deficiencies in that area and add in Jc/THT… it doesn’t work. Will need to change something to have a winning formula but isolating two man pairings from limited lineup data doesn’t prove what you think you see.

Why is KO the 2nd worst pair with Kessler last year in 726 minutes?

 

[HermanG]

Dude… the Gay Walker minutes were all bench minutes which are very different. Look at the lineup data with KO/Kessler/Lauri from last year. Compare that to this year with Collins. What changed?

Literally just look at Collins/KO/Lauri this year with the starting guard lineup… Kessler/collins as starters with our bricks guards does not work. Spacing is an issue and the defense hasn’t been better.

Saying it’s a stupid narrative is stupid… it is the narrative. It’s a blame pie and it’s not Collins fault… he’s been better than Kessler this year… but they will hurt each others production. You can have one guy that can’t really shoot pass or dribble but if you stack on another iffy shooter who isn’t a creator on top of Lauri with his deficiencies in that area and add in Jc/THT… it doesn’t work. Will need to change something to have a winning formula but isolating two man pairings from limited lineup data doesn’t prove what you think you see.

Oh and I do apologize. The narrative isnt stupid, nor are the people pushing it. Not what I meant to say but it maybe came out that way.

Its just not the root cause here, or even the 2nd most important factor.

I think Walker struggling is just much more of a guard problem and a Walker problem. Dont know which order. The numbers are just bad (both offense and defense) regardless of the lineup.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Oh and I do apologize. The narrative isnt stupid, nor are the people pushing it. Not what I meant to say but it maybe came out that way.

Its just not the root cause here, or even the 2nd most important factor.

I think Walker struggling is just much more of a guard problem and a Walker problem. Dont know which order. The numbers are just bad (both offense and defense) regardless of the lineup.

The question is do you really want a center is entirely reliant on others while also not having a huge defensive impact?

This isn't 2019 Gobert.

 

[FrenchJazzFa]

It's too early to say where Kessler go. I do think he can be a Rudy type. Poor offensive player but great in defense and rebounding. Let him play a whole season ( and hopefully with better passing guy) and we see.
Yesterday, almost all buckets Rudy make came from differents players ( Mike, Ant, KAT and Slomo). Ant and KAT are not the perfect playmakers ( lot of TO for both) but they work this summer and start to get some chemistry with Rudy. No reason we cannot do the same.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

It's too early to say where Kessler go. I do think he can be a Rudy type. Poor offensive player but great in defense and rebounding. Let him play a whole season ( and hopefully with better passing guy) and we see.
Yesterday, almost all buckets Rudy make came from differents players ( Mike, Ant, KAT and Slomo). Ant and KAT are not the perfect playmakers ( lot of TO for both) but they work this summer and start to get some chemistry with Rudy. No reason we cannot do the same.

Great rebounders typically can outrebound their teammates. He's only averaging 0.4 more rebounds than Lauri or Collins on a per minute basis,.

 

[LogGrad98]

Great rebounders typically can outrebound their teammates. He's only averaging 0.4 more rebounds than Lauri or Collins on a per minute basis,.

That's a bad measure and you know it. It varies greatly depending on role, individual rebounding ability, time on floor with different people, minutes per game, matchups, and more.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

That's a bad measure and you know it. It varies greatly depending on role, individual rebounding ability, time on floor with different people, minutes per game, matchups, and more.

I really dont think it is. Rebounding is a very "alpha" (I hate that term, but it does apply) thing. If you are an elite rebounder, you get the rebounds. There is a lot of competition in the starting lineup for rebounds, but Walker isnt stepping up. It's not a huge issue, but I think his lack of assertiveness is showing itself in all facets of his game. He's too nice.

 

[LogGrad98]

I really dont think it is. Rebounding is a very "alpha" (I hate that term, but it does apply) thing. If you are an elite rebounder, you get the rebounds. There is a lot of competition in the starting lineup for rebounds, but Walker isnt stepping up. It's not a huge issue, but I think his lack of assertiveness is showing itself in all facets of his game. He's too nice.

So you have 3 guys capable of averaging 10 rpg. They don't play all their minutes together. Which one stops rebounding while he's on the court to the other 2 can get theirs? One of these guys is primarily a perimeter player, one plays primarily under the basket. When they are on the court together, who plays where and who is more likely to get the rebound, the guy closer to the rim or the guy further away? It's a **** measure and you know it. You're just trying to make **** up to support your position, as per usual.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

So you have 3 guys capable of averaging 10 rpg. They don't play all their minutes together. Which one stops rebounding while he's on the court to the other 2 can get theirs? One of these guys is primarily a perimeter player, one plays primarily under the basket. When they are on the court together, who plays where and who is more likely to get the rebound, the guy closer to the rim or the guy further away? It's a **** measure and you know it. You're just trying to make **** up to support your position, as per usual.

I'm not making anything up. Elite rebounders go and get it. Walker is a nice rebounder, he isn't elite.

And would you disagree that Walker hasnt been soft this year? He's needs a fire, and part of that fire is by going after every rebound 100%. That's what the elite rebounders do. They arent conceding rebounds to their teammates because their mindset is 100% on.

 

[LogGrad98]

I'm not making anything up. Elite rebounders go and get it. Walker is a nice rebounder, he isn't elite.

And would you disagree that Walker hasnt been soft this year? He's needs a fire, and part of that fire is by going after every rebound 100%. That's what the elite rebounders do. They arent conceding rebounds to their teammates because their mindset is 100% on.

Let's see, 5 games into his 2nd season with a new team mate that plays in essentially the same space. Not sure what you expected but he seems to be about where I'd expect, you know, inconsistent and learning. What did you expect, prime Shaq?

Sounds like more of a you problem than a Kessler problem, tbpfhwy.