Who will lead in PPG this season?

[franklin]

Franklin does have a point but takes it to far IMO. Some of the teams that improved were already playoff teams. Like Houston and OKC. Minny got much better but the Clips also got worse.

I think the Jazz will be better defensively and worse offensively. Hayward absolutely mattered. But I say the Jazz finish as the 7th seed.

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts we still wouldn't have a merry Christmas.

Hayward is tied as a top 20 VORP player. That's Value Over Replacement Player. You don't merely lose someone like that who takes tremendous pressure off of players like Gobert, who can bail you out in tight spots, and replace them with VORP players of negligible value like Rodney Hood and expect the same success or anything close to it.

Ingles is a 7 ppg player that plays both ways.

Hood is a moderately inefficient ball handler that does nothing special.

The additions are all defense no offense. Thabo is being extremely overrated here as a defender. It's his calling card for announcers to talk about during games but the guy is a downgrade from Hayward defensively, and will be that final sheet of Charmin that clogs the toilet on offense.

Jerebko can't rebound worth a damn and is a 15 minute addition. I'd rather have Whithey back.

In the dream scenario of Burks and Favors returning to form, Exum finally showing some NBA level talent, and Hood getting better, the Jazz are still, in the dream scenario, a pretty poor team. 7,8,9 always seems to be a close race and the Jazz are set up to lose to

GS
Hou
SAS
OKC
MIN
Denver
Portland
LAC
NO


and will be fighting off the dregs like Lakers, Memphis, etc.

 

[Stoked]

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts we still wouldn't have a merry Christmas.

Hayward is tied as a top 20 VORP player. That's Value Over Replacement Player. You don't merely lose someone like that who takes tremendous pressure off of players like Gobert, who can bail you out in tight spots, and replace them with VORP players of negligible value like Rodney Hood and expect the same success or anything close to it.

Ingles is a 7 ppg player that plays both ways.

Hood is a moderately inefficient ball handler that does nothing special.

The additions are all defense no offense. Thabo is being extremely overrated here as a defender. It's his calling card for announcers to talk about during games but the guy is a downgrade from Hayward defensively, and will be that final sheet of Charmin that clogs the toilet on offense.

Jerebko can't rebound worth a damn and is a 15 minute addition. I'd rather have Whithey back.

In the dream scenario of Burks and Favors returning to form, Exum finally showing some NBA level talent, and Hood getting better, the Jazz are still, in the dream scenario, a pretty poor team. 7,8,9 always seems to be a close race and the Jazz are set up to lose to

GS
Hou
SAS
OKC
MIN
Denver
Portland
LAC
NO


and will be fighting off the dregs like Lakers, Memphis, etc.

Again you over state things. Like the Hayward to Thabo defensive decrease. You also make no allowance for player improvement. Favors, Gobert, Exum and Hood are all realistic targets for player growth. Nor is there any allowance for Snyder to adjust.

I openly acknowledge that losing Hayward hurt. Especially offensively. I just don't think it will be the train wreck you're envisioning.

Utah will be fighting with NO, POR, LAC and DEN for 6-10 I say they get 7th.

 

[franklin]

Again you over state things. Like the Hayward to Thabo defensive decrease. You also make no allowance for player improvement. Favors, Gobert, Exum and Hood are all realistic targets for player growth. Nor is there any allowance for Snyder to adjust.

I openly acknowledge that losing Hayward hurt. Especially offensively. I just don't think it will be the train wreck you're envisioning.

Utah will be fighting with NO, POR, LAC and DEN for 6-10 I say they get 7th.

You want to haggle over the 7-8-9 dump range? Fine, I concede, and agree to the 6-10. I hope we get 6 after a 5th spot team losing Hayward and lucking into the second round due to injuries. That would be pretty impressive.

Holla at yo boy when the rebuild begins.

 

[Miggs]

Lol at people thinking the Pels could make the playoffs

 

[Ron Mexico]

You want to haggle over the 7-8-9 dump range? Fine, I concede, and agree to the 6-10. I hope we get 6 after a 5th spot team losing Hayward and lucking into the second round due to injuries. That would be pretty impressive.

Holla at yo boy when the rebuild begins.

We will be a 5th seed again.

A healthy Hood, Favor's, Exum and having Rubio is better than Hayward and Hill for half a season. Obviously we would be even better with Hayward but there is no reason to expect us not to at least stay the same and that is assuming we don't have a big break out from a player. That's why all advanced statistics point to us winning around 50 games next season. So let's not throw out advanced stats without acknowledging that.

We were unlucky in the playoffs, your negative spin is silly at best on that. They lost Griffin their second best player for the same number of games as we lost our best player Gobert and we got a gimpy Gobert for the other games. So we never got our best player. They had theirs for the whole series. Additionally we lost Hayward for a game. We had Favor's, Hood and Hill hobbled badly for the entire series. Our entire starting lineup has serious health issues and we still beat a veteran team that has been together for awhile and only lost one starter for a couple games.

Lol at your whole vorp discussion. Hoods and Favor's vorp was much better when they weren't hurt and it is expected to go up both due to growth since they are still young and am increased role with Hayward gone. Additionally we replaced Hill who played 1/2 the season with a guy with a better vorp that is expected to go up.

You can keep calling Ingles a 7 ppg player all you want until the season starts. His role will increase with Hayward gone and has shown he can handle more.

 

[Isaiah 1:13]

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts we still wouldn't have a merry Christmas.

Hayward is tied as a top 20 VORP player. That's Value Over Replacement Player. You don't merely lose someone like that who takes tremendous pressure off of players like Gobert, who can bail you out in tight spots, and replace them with VORP players of negligible value like Rodney Hood and expect the same success or anything close to it.

Ingles is a 7 ppg player that plays both ways.

Hood is a moderately inefficient ball handler that does nothing special.

The additions are all defense no offense. Thabo is being extremely overrated here as a defender. It's his calling card for announcers to talk about during games but the guy is a downgrade from Hayward defensively, and will be that final sheet of Charmin that clogs the toilet on offense.

Jerebko can't rebound worth a damn and is a 15 minute addition. I'd rather have Whithey back.

In the dream scenario of Burks and Favors returning to form, Exum finally showing some NBA level talent, and Hood getting better, the Jazz are still, in the dream scenario, a pretty poor team. 7,8,9 always seems to be a close race and the Jazz are set up to lose to

GS
Hou
SAS
OKC
MIN
Denver
Portland
LAC
NO


and will be fighting off the dregs like Lakers, Memphis, etc.

No question we've got a lot to figure out this season. Will we make the playoffs in a landscape that has improved significantly for teams like Houston, Minnesota, Denver and OKC? Good question. I think we have a dog in that race but a lot depends on how quickly we're able to figure it all out. I think it all comes down to two things: a) how effective Rubio is able to be in his new haunts; and b) how quickly we establish our identity, which has a lot to do with who emerges as our go to guy. Is Hood ready to assume that mantle? I, like you, do have some concerns about his handle, his streakiness, and his D. Or is Mitchell going to end up being the guy? I personally think that may be more likely long term. But the sooner we figure out our identity and define our roles the better off we're going to be as it pertains to the season and the playoffs, because we are a far cry from rebuild mode and I think will eventually be a better team post Hayward than we were with him.

PS Two guys you're totally sleeping on are Thabo and Jerebko. Much, much better players than you give them credit for. Whithey? Really, talk about charmin? Props for leaving the door open for Faves and Burks, who both could be huge in different capacities (Burks off the bench) if they are right physically. Burks is a wild card but so are Bradley, O'Neale and Griffin. These guys could end up having a much bigger role than presently presumed AND end up being difference makers for us regarding a playoff push.

 

[ghsartin]

To me, Hayward was naturally a third-option player that should have been some sort of big point guard. He wanted to be the man, though, and worked his *** off to become it. In the proccess, management basically gave in, conceding to him the main offensive role, but last season was the only one in which he really blossomed in the aforementioned role. Nevertheless, I think we can all agree that he wasn't really trustworthy at crunch time. That was due, I think to him not having a top-notch athleticism nor an excellent shooting touch. Nevertheless, he was the designated main offensive player.

The point that I'm getting at is: Hayward was occupying a role that was a little too big for him, taking more shots than he should have. During the last three seasons his usage rate didn't change much, fluctuating between 25% and 27%, but only in the last one his true shooting percentage was very good, at 59.5%.

His absence will, I think, have both a negative and a positive impact: while some players' offensive efficency might be negatively affected by the increased attention from the defenses, others, that wheren't used as much on offense, might blossom. Hood comes to mind as one of could easily benefit from Hayward's absence. On the other hand, he struck me as somewhat soft during last season.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

To me, Hayward was naturally a third-option player that should have been some sort of big point guard. He wanted to be the man, though, and worked his *** off to become it. In the proccess, management basically gave in, conceding to him the main offensive role, but last season was the only one in which he really blossomed in the aforementioned role. Nevertheless, I think we can all agree that he wasn't really trustworthy at crunch time. That was due, I think to him not having a top-notch athleticism nor an excellent shooting touch. Nevertheless, he was the designated main offensive player.

The point that I'm getting at is: Hayward was occupying a role that was a little too big for him, taking more shots than he should have. During the last three seasons his usage rate didn't change much, fluctuating between 25% and 27%, but only in the last one his true shooting percentage was very good, at 59.5%.

His absence will, I think, have both a negative and a positive impact: while some players' offensive efficency might be negatively affected by the increased attention from the defenses, others, that wheren't used as much on offense, might blossom. Hood comes to mind as one of could easily benefit from Hayward's absence. On the other hand, he struck me as somewhat soft during last season.

Hayward's role was too small. He should have been taking more shots. Nothing about his efficiency suggest the role was too big for him.

 

[8]

I hope Rudy can carry the Jazz to a high seed next season

 

[ghsartin]

Hayward's role was too small. He should have been taking more shots. Nothing about his efficiency suggest the role was too big for him.

2014-15 - usage% 26.2 - true shooting% .567
2015-16 - usage% 25.7 - true shooting% .559
2016-17 - usage% 27.2 - true shooting% .595
(per basketballreference.com)

I think we really disagree on this one, Cy. Hayward's usage was basically the same during the last three seasons, but only during the last one his efficiency was high. It doesn't matter if we label his efficiency during the 14-15 and 15-16 seasons "decent", "mediocre", "sufficient", or whatever... My point is that having your main scorer shooting at around .565 is no recipe for real success. So, if we are talking about Hayward during the three years in which he was clearly "the man", the two first seasons should have made, I think, us want him to shoot (slightly) less and only the last one should have made us want him to shoot more.

 

[Hekate]

2014-15 - usage% 26.2 - true shooting% .567
2015-16 - usage% 25.7 - true shooting% .559
2016-17 - usage% 27.2 - true shooting% .595
(per basketballreference.com)

I think we really disagree on this one, Cy. Hayward's usage was basically the same during the last three seasons, but only during the last one his efficiency was high. It doesn't matter if we label his efficiency during the 14-15 and 15-16 seasons "decent", "mediocre", "sufficient", or whatever... My point is that having your main scorer shooting at around .565 is no recipe for real success. So, if we are talking about Hayward during the three years in which he was clearly "the man", the two first seasons should have made, I think, us want him to shoot (slightly) less and only the last one should have made us want him to shoot more.

Scoring wise, Hayward was 7th in efficiency among high volume scorers. Your perception of him is wrong.

 

[Boris]

My guess is Hood.

**MODS CAN YOU ADD GOBERT TO THE POLL?**

Westbrook is out cause Paul so is Harden cause CP. my guess is maybe I don't know.