Why I think being a Muslim is rational.

[addictionary]

what a ***

 

[GVC]

Had to say, GVC, I was impressed you read through enough of that mess to pull out a line of mine that you liked.

But yeah, this is pretty much the impasse that we reached. I kept telling him that a lot of religions promise post-mortem metaphysical doggy treats, and that there must be some reason beyond that why one would want to be a Muslim. But he still hasn't told me why in any way I understand.

I read the whole damn thing; I'm a good boy.

Based on those PMs and his posts on this board, it really seems as though he's Muslim simply because it feeds his false sense of superiority. I may not generally have the most faith in humanity, but I hope I'm not that cynical. It's ok to be wrong, as long as I try to learn from my mistakes and get better. TBS is young, fortunately, and he may learn at some point that there's more to life than being right and securing heavenly favor and praise. I refuse to accept that narrow an existence.

 

[AtheistPreacher]

I read the whole damn thing; I'm a good boy.

Based on those PMs and his posts on this board, it really seems as though he's Muslim simply because it feeds his false sense of superiority. I may not generally have the most faith in humanity, but I hope I'm not that cynical. It's ok to be wrong, as long as I try to learn from my mistakes and get better. TBS is young, fortunately, and he may learn at some point that there's more to life than being right and securing heavenly favor and praise. I refuse to accept that narrow an existence.

I think you may be right.

I'm at Claremont Lincoln University partly because it's the first officially multireligious university in the world. My mindset and the mindset of most others here is that we really want to engage with each other's traditions, and not be so attached to our own beliefs that we can't learn something and genuinely change. But on the other hand, being at CLU you can tend to forget that most people are fairly set in their religious beliefs and don't particularly want to change them, because they've already found something that's comforting and safe. Probably good that I have these conversations once in a while to remind me of that.

 

[GVC]

I think you may be right.

I'm at Claremont Lincoln University partly because it's the first officially multireligious university in the world. My mindset and the mindset of most others here is that we really want to engage with each other's traditions, and not be so attached to our own beliefs that we can't learn something and genuinely change. But on the other hand, being at CLU you can tend to forget that most people are fairly set in their religious beliefs and don't particularly want to change them, because they've already found something that's comforting and safe. Probably good that I have these conversations once in a while to remind me of that.

Just out of curiosity, what sort of religious/spiritual/ritualistic practice to you find useful?

 

[TroutBum]

As AP asked, so what? What is it about Islam that is so attractive? Why should I want to be Muslim?

One word:



VIRGINS!

 

[The Black Swordsman]

One word:



VIRGINS!

Are they white, delight-some and enticing?

Btw its Houri: its virgin in the way they are pure, dont use the restroom, dont pms etc.

 

[TroutBum]

Are they white, delight-some and enticing?

They damn well better be.

 

[AtheistPreacher]

Just out of curiosity, what sort of religious/spiritual/ritualistic practice to you find useful?

I really don't do any sort of religious or spiritual practice. I confine myself to reading about religion and philosophy (particularly religion and philosophy I'm not too familiar with), picking others' brains, thinking deep thoughts, and trying to be a good person. No building I go to once a week with a bunch of other people to compare clothing.

 

[GVC]

I really don't do any sort of religious or spiritual practice. I confine myself to reading about religion and philosophy (particularly religion and philosophy I'm not too familiar with), picking others' brains, thinking deep thoughts, and trying to be a good person. No building I go to once a week with a bunch of other people to compare clothing.

Thanks, George. I ask because you seem like someone who may see some value in communal practice/ritual, even if it isn't dogmatic in nature, and because you've obviously spent some time studying religious worship. This thread seems more or less dead, and this topic likely wouldn't get much play in another thread, so I thought I'd ask.

 

[AtheistPreacher]

Thanks, George. I ask because you seem like someone who may see some value in communal practice/ritual, even if it isn't dogmatic in nature, and because you've obviously spent some time studying religious worship. This thread seems more or less dead, and this topic likely wouldn't get much play in another thread, so I thought I'd ask.

I guess you're as familiar with Carlin as I am. A great religious philosopher was George. My favorite phrase of his is "those who dance are considered insane by those who cannot hear the music." If he'd realized how poignant that actually was, he probably never would have said it. But it can be applied in a lot of ways, not the least of which is following a religion or spirituality when others don't understand or think you're crazy.

I'm not actually opposed to religious communities and religious practice. The problem is that there just isn't one that really fits for me. There's no church of process theology, just some academics spread around in various universities. As I said in my conversation with TBS, I've been especially interested in Buddhism lately -- the more I learn, the more I like it. But I still wouldn't call myself a Buddhist, nor would I be comfortable worshipping with Buddhists.

Probably the closest for me would be unitarian universalist services, where they invite people to bring things in from a lot of other traditions. My brother used to go to some UU services with his ex-girlfriend. Not actually sure if there are UU meetings around where I live. I bet there probably are. But living on-campus at CLU is pretty much enough for me.

BTW, while I'm thinking about Buddhism, I really recommend this book. It's by John Cobb, who's a Christian theologian and process thinker. It's about his encounters and conversations with Buddhists and Buddhism... kind of taking the lessons he's learned and applying them back to Christianity. Great for someone like me who's more familiar with Christianity and less so with Buddhism.

(Sorry, I'm an academic, I can't stop myself from recommending books...)

 

[GVC]

I'm not actually opposed to religious communities and religious practice. The problem is that there just isn't one that really fits for me.

Maybe I shouldn't have asked about communal practice (that is, the word "communal" could have been omitted). As a process theologian (if that's an accurate characterization), I suppose I should expect you to be more concerned with religious thought than religious practice. Outside of study and thought, do you "worship"? What is the practical value of religious thought devoid of religious practice?

 

[AtheistPreacher]

Maybe I shouldn't have asked about communal practice (that is, the word "communal" could have been omitted). As a process theologian (if that's an accurate characterization), I suppose I should expect you to be more concerned with religious thought than religious practice. Outside of study and thought, do you "worship"? What is the practical value of religious thought devoid of religious practice?

I guess I would say an outlook. A way of seeing the world, and my place in it. Seeing purpose to my life, what I hope to leave behind when I die... leaving the world a better place than I left it.

Religion these days is so often considered a fundamentally different activity from daily, secular life. I think that's crap. If you really believe your religion is your best guide to purpose in life, happiness, building a better world, then it's not something that gets bracketed when you're out shopping for groceries. So I really don't distinguish between "religious practice" and "everyday practice." They're the same thing.

Just as an example, process theology and philosophy stress relativity far more than individuality. What we are is a sum of our relationships with everything else. Even God is conceived as being dependent on the world, even as we are dependent on God (though in different senses). That belief tends to put a spin on my encounters with other people, makes me a more humble person, etc. It also makes me aware of things like how dependent we are on the earth, and how we're cutting down all our rainforests and burning up all our fossil fuels, and all those tree-hugging concerns.

I really do consider religion to be the realm of the "big, important questions." What does it all mean? Why am I here? And when you study that stuff, and find some thoughts and theories that you see as more or less convincing, it tends to change your approach to life from top to bottom, although not always in ways that are easy to describe.