Yesterday - Bundy Ranch
- Thread starter GoJazz
- Start date
For my buddy Franklin. . . . you do a pretty good job of bringin' it on. . .
Besides all that, I am actually a descendant of King George III. true story. I have this little intra-family feud sort of thing, yah know. . . . .
My thinking for myself was done mostly while loitering in public schools being a discouragement to hard-working and altruistic teachers. . . . I didn' t like the government very much, like everyone was trying to dictate. . . . .
I've read Karl Marx, and a bunch of socialist economic philosophers too. I remember I had a book about The Worldly Philosophers when I was only a sophomore in hs. There was one I liked because of his lifestyle. Veblen, I believe. Reputedly, he hated to wash his dishes, so he let them stack up for a month until they were all gone. Then he'd take them all out on the lawn and spray them with a garden hose. Now there's a man who knows how to do economies of scale. . . .
yah, so what. Mohandas Gandhi was thrown in jail for violating laws he disagreed with too.
But he had some liberal media friends who would make a legend of him. Gandhi really was a very intelligent exploiter of all kinds of media and public displays, and such. From the very beginning of his career when he burned his government ID and got his face kicked in much like Dave Bundy. . . . .
Pat Shea was on the news tonight, a former head of the BLM under Clinton. I knew him in 1991-3 when he was a frequent visitor/hanger-on around Peter Billings' law office. Peter Billings was then the head of the Utah Democratic Party. Peter Billings' personal secretary was my wife at that time. One thing you can say about Pat, he sure is a staunch player for the Establishment that has been running our country for a long long time. . . ignoring our founding Constitution wholesale.
But I have to assume you are yourself a government employee, though I suspect you do environmental assay work in a lab or something. . . .
Yes indeed, we do live in a country where ideas HAVE to compete to get anywhere. Ideas about human rights, innate or god-given, have to compete against nearly insurmountable opposition, just like the British Government in Gandhi's India.
I am in essentially the same position as Clive Bundy, except my grazing right goes back to 1890. When I bought the ranch, with all appurtenant rights, I took a pretty sad view of the BLM and figured, since I was dirt poor and couldn't spend ten million dollars whistling at judges in the courts while the BLM could do so without any substantial concern at all. I predicted that within my lifetime, the BLM would just deny me any use of that grazing at all.
And I don't have confidence in our voting public with democratic delusions, either. I see it as a real threat to all private landholders in very remote rural settings that there will be public notions about open spaces and fed agency actions determined to remove those landholders from their nuisance holdings.
I decided I couldn't even mount a political opposition, considering the billions likely spent by cartels. . . such as feedlot/slaughter/meatpacking companies. . . . to beat down their small competitors with the government stick.
So put me down as one who is absolutely grateful to Cliven Bundy for his stand. . . . although I have some objective criticisms of the way he's gone about it. . . . .
And I still don't think I've addressed your question. . . .
respectfully disagree. Every living thing has a birthright. Some religious folks hypothesize they are children of the King, meaning Jesus, because he have accepted Jesus as Lord. As a Son of the Republic, I maintain that humans have inalienable rights, and that governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed. Which would naturally infer that a voting public. . . a democracy, so to speak. . . . cannot claim any power not inherent in the people. yah we didn't get very perfect at that from the outset, with slavery and the expulsion of natives from tribal lands, even treaty-recognized tribal lands. . . .you have probably heard that the US is not supposed to be a "pure" democracy, but a "Constitutional Republic" with limited federal powers. . . . . with the undelegated powers reserved to the States, or to the People. . . .
Besides all that, I am actually a descendant of King George III. true story. I have this little intra-family feud sort of thing, yah know. . . . .
My thinking for myself was done mostly while loitering in public schools being a discouragement to hard-working and altruistic teachers. . . . I didn' t like the government very much, like everyone was trying to dictate. . . . .
I've read Karl Marx, and a bunch of socialist economic philosophers too. I remember I had a book about The Worldly Philosophers when I was only a sophomore in hs. There was one I liked because of his lifestyle. Veblen, I believe. Reputedly, he hated to wash his dishes, so he let them stack up for a month until they were all gone. Then he'd take them all out on the lawn and spray them with a garden hose. Now there's a man who knows how to do economies of scale. . . .
yah, so what. Mohandas Gandhi was thrown in jail for violating laws he disagreed with too.
But he had some liberal media friends who would make a legend of him. Gandhi really was a very intelligent exploiter of all kinds of media and public displays, and such. From the very beginning of his career when he burned his government ID and got his face kicked in much like Dave Bundy. . . . .
Pat Shea was on the news tonight, a former head of the BLM under Clinton. I knew him in 1991-3 when he was a frequent visitor/hanger-on around Peter Billings' law office. Peter Billings was then the head of the Utah Democratic Party. Peter Billings' personal secretary was my wife at that time. One thing you can say about Pat, he sure is a staunch player for the Establishment that has been running our country for a long long time. . . ignoring our founding Constitution wholesale.
But I have to assume you are yourself a government employee, though I suspect you do environmental assay work in a lab or something. . . .
Yes indeed, we do live in a country where ideas HAVE to compete to get anywhere. Ideas about human rights, innate or god-given, have to compete against nearly insurmountable opposition, just like the British Government in Gandhi's India.
I am in essentially the same position as Clive Bundy, except my grazing right goes back to 1890. When I bought the ranch, with all appurtenant rights, I took a pretty sad view of the BLM and figured, since I was dirt poor and couldn't spend ten million dollars whistling at judges in the courts while the BLM could do so without any substantial concern at all. I predicted that within my lifetime, the BLM would just deny me any use of that grazing at all.
And I don't have confidence in our voting public with democratic delusions, either. I see it as a real threat to all private landholders in very remote rural settings that there will be public notions about open spaces and fed agency actions determined to remove those landholders from their nuisance holdings.
I decided I couldn't even mount a political opposition, considering the billions likely spent by cartels. . . such as feedlot/slaughter/meatpacking companies. . . . to beat down their small competitors with the government stick.
So put me down as one who is absolutely grateful to Cliven Bundy for his stand. . . . although I have some objective criticisms of the way he's gone about it. . . . .
And I still don't think I've addressed your question. . . .
You should change your handle to "Chicken Little" SRS
hey, heyhey,. . . . . what's up.
I think the gun-totin' civilians are idiots, too.
I call it the John Singer deficit in reasoning.
If you draw first you still need to shoot first. . . . and shoot last. No little militia is gonna be able to do that. The Brits would have shot Gandhi, too, if he had carried a gun. In fact, I believe his very meager/simple garb and meditative posturing was crafted to ensure that if he ever did get shot, the Brits couldn't say he pulled a gun on them. . . . . . Of course, though, the Brits weren't above blaming it on a Moslem or fomenting a shooting war between Buddhists and Moslem. . . . .
John Singer was the Utah fundamentalist/polygamist who turned his back on the cops, who shot him. I worked for a while next to the UofU medcenter autopsy room. Someone told me John Singer was shot in the back, but the Utah governor dictated the autopsy report to state otherwise. . . . yep, I think of that every time I drive by the monument named for the officer who was shot by Singer's son. Just never know who to believe anymore.
Seriously, we don't need yahoos with guns on the roads around Mesquite. We need a Gandhi sort of man who will make the case strictly and purely "civil disobedience. . . nonviolent disobedience" yah, but it's not time even for that. All we need is about 5% of Americans reading the Constitution and voting the honchos out.
And there's the meat of your position. Why does it always take a little firing back for you to have everyone's ear?
This is the message that should be put in front of some last stand for liberty. Not hiding behind S.W.A.T. carrying sniper rifles, or feigned outrage over "free speech zones", or "my granddaddy took this property from natives off the Santa Maria". If this is about bought and paid for government acting against a free enterprise system then let's tell the story that needs to be told. Meat with substance.
♪alt13
Well-Known Member
It is not real property. If it was you would have a deed or title. An appurtenant right is a form of an easement and easements are extinguishable by public authority. Water rights in Utah are real property and you get a deed.
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♪alt13
Well-Known Member
I own guns and believe in gun rights. I believe the ultimate purpose for our right to bear arms is to protect ourselves from government. This guy is an idiot. This specific group is ridiculous.
You should change your handle to "Chicken Little" SRS
How does that make any sense? All I'm doing is explaining to you who real 3% are. I'm not a 3%. Are you really unable to tell the difference between panic and interest? Between explanation and agreance?
Appears this is coming to pass. Feds appear to be packing their bags.
I predict that now they will come back and handle this responsibly, as they should have from the beginning... after spending millions doing it wrong the first time.
I'm just glad/hopeful no blood was shed. That is a victory for us all.
♪alt13
Well-Known Member
You can be a little bit of an alarmist.
I am just now home. Sorry I kept you hanging so long.
Too tired to post today's events tonight.. will tomorrow.