Yesterday - Bundy Ranch

[Dr. Jones]

There are also reports of another BLM/rancher feud on the TX/OK state line. Rumors are that militia are headed there as well. if so I have the following questions:

At what point do the feds feel that they have to do something drastic?

How long can they allow part of the populace to directly impeed their authority?

Excellent questions.

If I were calling the shots (Or, wait, am I? I mean, because I voted these are 'my' decisions, right??), I would allow these two specific issues to die down. Take a step back, analyze the issues and be SURE I am in the right and the ranchers are clearly in the wrong. If there needs to be an amendment that is more fair, negotiate and work towards something more fair and sustainable. If I find that no changes are required and the ranchers are 100% wrong, I make no threats, I don't 'mobilize' units, I simply go in swiftly and make the arrests and do what is needed. Dragging these things out is causing a problem and we need to allow things to settle down.

Regardless who's right, escalating this is the wrong move, period.

 

[ema]

I get your point PKM, the thing to like here is the spirit, even though their case might not be the most righteous or lawful.

When the things aren't the best for the citizens/public, like dalamon stated in a few posts, and when there is a legitimate case to stand up against, will the elite rise up against the oppressors bravely and rightfully? I bet those people and their counterparts will be the ones who are going to show up first.

We did the same for Gezi Parkı, and guess what, we saved it from the greedy government, at least for now..

And believe me, when the things aren't that well, governments do not have and will not have any limits against their own people. It's same for even the most so called developed countries.

 

[[size/HUGE] fixed [/size]]

You give yourself to much credit. Plus I am already married.

what do I give myself credit for? Srs... please give specifics.

 

[Dr. Jones]

^This guy understands. There is a time to stand up. The Bundy situation may or may not be a correct time, but I wonder what % of Americans think it's never okay?

 

[franklin]

I think it's time to bump some old Occupy Portland threads to see who was for that "police brutality" but against this one based on political allegiances.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I think it's time to bump some old Occupy Portland threads to see who was for that "police brutality" but against this one based on political allegiances.

I don't think I was part of that thread.. don't recall it.

Also, this has NOTHING, at all, to do with political sides for me... nor anyone else I spoke with at the ranch. Again, whether who is 'right' or 'wrong' it was merely about right and wrong.

 

[franklin]

I'm a little late to the party, but I found this on facebook and thought it was interesting:

When I first heard the story of the Bundy Ranch, back before the raid, I wasn’t sure where I stood. I wasn’t sure how someone could just stop paying fees to the government and still use the land. But I wanted to understand a little more. Here’s what I found:
• Back in the late 1800s (just so my kids understand, that’s way before I was born) there were disputes between the ranchers who used the land to graze the cattle. They asked the government to intervene. As a result of this the government established grazing rights.
• More than 50 years later, in 1934 the Taylor Grazing Act created the Grazing Service to help regulate grazing.
• In 1946 the General Land Office was merged with the Grazing Service forming the BLM.
• For many years the BLM collected fees from ranchers and used this money to better the range land.
• Over time, the BLM began to change. Many of the people hired by the BLM believed that the land should not be used for grazing: they felt that it should be left untouched. Some felt that the land should be wild wilderness land without roads and access.
• As time went on, they pushed harder and harder to limit the rights that the ranchers had enjoyed for over 100 years.
• The BLM began cutting the allotment that they gave out to the ranchers. This meant that the ranchers were required to cut their herds, which meant that many would be losing money.
• In the Gold Butte area ranchers were bought out by the BLM using the money that they had paid the government in grazing fees. In other words, the allotments were cut to the point that the ranchers could not survive and then their own money was used to buy them out.
• At that point Clive Bundy stopped paying the fees to the Federal government. I’m not sure that this was the right thing to do, but I’m not sure he had any other options.
• Now the government is coming in and taking his cattle from the land that has been used by his family since the 1800s.
I don’t know that the Bundy’s are right, but I know that the BLM is wrong. That is why I #standwiththebundys
We could go into the whole state’s rights issue, but that is another epistle for another day.
#bundyranch

Rights, privilege, entitlement... it's all the same thing now, right?

Hunters and fishers have lost privileges far more than these cattle prodders ever will. We've lost privilege to cattle and mountain maggot farmers even. The difference is we decide to work with government instead of taking this entitlement mentality and scream that Washington is out of control.

Look up the Southeastern ATV protests and compare them with this one. Common theme: I can do what I want with everyone else's public lands and the voters can go screw themselves.

 

[franklin]

I don't think I was part of that thread.. don't recall it.

Also, this has NOTHING, at all, to do with political sides for me... nor anyone else I spoke with at the ranch. Again, whether who is 'right' or 'wrong' it was merely about right and wrong.

Basically, a bunch of people thought the government was out of control and were protesting the bank bailouts. The feds sent in the army to ensure peace was kept and blocked off sections of the city. The mob thought this was a violation of their freedom of speech and rioted.

The right, by and large, condemned the protestors because they were taking a leftist mentality. Militia members did not show up to support this freedom movement.

As an afterthought, the difference between the right and left truly does boil down to the fact that we have guns and they do not. Both sides were fighting the same fight though (big business and government are out of control).

 

[Stoked]

Basically, a bunch of people thought the government was out of control and were protesting the bank bailouts. The feds sent in the army to ensure peace was kept and blocked off sections of the city. The mob thought this was a violation of their freedom of speech and rioted.

The right, by and large, condemned the protestors because they were taking a leftist mentality. Militia members did not show up to support this freedom movement.

As an afterthought, the difference between the right and left truly does boil down to the fact that we have guns and they do not. Both sides were fighting the same fight though (big business and government are out of control).

It would be interesting to see who took what sides.

But from what you described it should be about equal to what is being stated on here. (Probably wont be though).

 

[Dr. Jones]

Basically, a bunch of people thought the government was out of control and were protesting the bank bailouts. The feds sent in the army to ensure peace was kept and blocked off sections of the city. The mob thought this was a violation of their freedom of speech and rioted.

The right, by and large, condemned the protestors because they were taking a leftist mentality. Militia members did not show up to support this freedom movement.

As an afterthought, the difference between the right and left truly does boil down to the fact that we have guns and they do not. Both sides were fighting the same fight though (big business and government are out of control).

Are you on the right??

I seriously don't even care about political parties anymore. I may work a couple more years and buy an island, elect myself president, and bitch to myself about the job I'm doing.

 

[Stoked]

Are you on the right??

I seriously don't even care about political parties anymore. I may work a couple more years and buy an island, elect myself president, and bitch to myself about the job I'm doing.

I'm willing to be the voting resident. Just sayin...

 

[ema]

Are you on the right??

I seriously don't even care about political parties anymore. I may work a couple more years and buy an island, elect myself president, and bitch to myself about the job I'm doing.

Will you require passport and visa?