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Yesterday - Bundy Ranch

Can you even imagine the existence of intellectual believers in ideas like Malthusian overpopulation horrors, planetary pollution issues, and nightmares like thermonuclear war who decide they must, for the sake of the world, just achieve some political objective, such as restoring vast tracts of wilderness across planet earth? I not only know they exist, I know they believe they are doing a good and necessary thing to reduce world population to less than 1/6 our present global population. Getting government agencies to facilitate specific objectives, in their minds, would justify a little side show in the Nevada desert:

That's one way to explain away the will of the voters after being educated by intelligentsia about the need for wilderness, or hunters and outdoorspeople enjoying it, or big city Easterners wishing they hadn't done away with all of theirs. But I suppose this false flag has been in operation since Teddy Rosevelt set aside Yellowstone.


send out some signals about an intended forcible confrontation with a deranged misfit who prattles nonsense about constitutional notions nobody has ever heard of since Lincoln, contrive to set up some super-militant "patriot" group to seize control from the government, and in general pursue a newsworthy path for months, perhaps, becoming increasingly offensive to the general public. Make the "patriots" so off-center everybody will just hate them, and go along with some draconian new legislation that will require government passes/ security clearances for anyone to enter BLM or Forest Service lands for any reason.

One thing about conspiracy theorists is they're so paranoid they always turn on their own people. You'd do well to take pause and think about just how many people you're trying to implicate in this, and everything else is one, conspiracy. Way too many people to keep silent, dude.
 
Dude, I know what a false flag is. I believe the conflict in Vietnam was escalated because of one. I see what you're saying, and I will even give you some credit; it's possible. I just don't think it's likely. Do they happen? Ya, I think they do. Is the Bundy situation one of them? Nope.

Anyway, I was just poking fun at the fact that you can't make a post without mentioning socialism, progressives, and now false flags. I was semi-serious about disclosure though; what are your thoughts on that? My prediction is before 2020 we will have it.

I don't know anyone who is in any militia, that I know of. I do know some BLM people, though. I even knew a one-time chief of the BLM from Utah. I read a lot of stuff. I read some left-wing wackos, I could even count some marxists as "friends". I know some CFR people, I am related to some, as well as the local affiliate the Salt Lake Committee on Foreign Relations. I have one friend who has been since I knew him first, a UN official.

when I was a kid, I was most impressed by my grandpa, an absolute Democratic partisan. I sorta got it from him that "Republicans" don't care about people, just money. I tried to get Lyndon LaRouche on the Democratic Party ticket here in Utah in the year 2000. I voted for him a couple of times when he was on the ticket. I am related to a former Democratic congressmen from Utah enough that I have sat on his lawn chairs and drank his cool-aid. I have worked for Democratic people quite happily. They treated me very good. I have also worked for people who are close to Benjamin Netanyahu, who have homes in Israel. I have worked with people from Iran, Taiwan, Afghanistan, Japan. . . worked for a Japanese company once. . . .,

I have good reason to believe Bill Clinton took the Democratic Party over the cliff and made it into a mere Republican-controlled subsidiary, considering the nature of David Rockefeller's influence today. I believe Unions have generally been co-opted by management interests as well. I think the nature of the UN is basically fascist in that elected officials no longer have much influence and corporate interests do.

I know Nelson Rockefeller pretty much "owned" Ferdinand Marcos in the Philippines, and I know that the Kennedys pretty much "owned" Benigno Aquino and subsequently his wife Corazon. I invested in mining corporations in the Philippines still owned principally by the Marcos family. My first wife's uncle was a high official in the Marcos administration, my second wife worked for a Utah State Democratic Party chairman, my third wife is very active in Utah Republican Party politics, and is this year a delegate to the State GOP convention and a supporter of Mia Love. She was formerly a big supporter of a black Illinois senatorial candidate running against Barry Obama, and others.

I ran once for the Utah house as a "Constitution Party" candidate, and got an endorsement from a gay rights group and about 380 votes, even. I am thinking of starting a third party called the "American Principles Party", nominally centered on issues of human liberty and the rights of ordinary persons. I'm sorta anti-Authoritarian, having been sorta that way myself and addicted to my own ideas. Trying to recover from the delusions of "rightness".

I have a personal interest in grazing rights, and it would be financially favorable to me in a rather important way if my "grazing preference" were solidly in my hands, even to the extent that it meant I had to pay property tax on it.

I think government "management" of lands encumbered with a grazing property right is still good, provided only that it is uncorrupt and that nobody thinks I don't "own" the grazing use.

Utah, and other states, would benefit greatly if grazing, mineral, and other beneficial uses of land were taxable holdings, and I think it could be better managed locally than nationally. It is entirely true that the forage consumed by a cow in a month is worth $20 as a basic rental rate, and that a grazing right is worth about as much as five cows, that is $5000 per cow that can be fed on grazing allotment. Thus Bundy's grazing right is worth at least $5 M, and the government should pay him that much if say, a turtle or a solar plant is the higher and best use of it. The water right is additional. . . .

I could go on. Maybe it will take me twenty more years to do full disclosure.
 
I am disappointed by how things twisted at Bundy ranch. Not at all surprised, but generally, the good folk that first showed up on the scene in all sincerity to help and to just be a voice that justice is done, have mostly gone. They have been worn out and replaced by people that are now what many of you described early on.. boys playing army. Now, most of these guys are true badasses and almost all have extensive military backgrounds, but their motives are not one and the same as the original supporters we first enjoyed speaking and visiting with.

I am done going to the ranch. It is a lost cause because too many good well-meaning people got frustrated by the inflow of maniacs.

I have not and likely will not give up on seeing the corruption investigated, but my badass atty advised me to take a step back and prepare a fight in Utah. Can't say much about that, but it made perfect sense to me. We're still hoping force an investigation for the last couple decades of abuse in NV, but we stand a better chance winning on the events that will shortly be more focused on Utah.

I know that sounds crazy to most and, fortunately for us all, I am exhausted and lack any desire to debate these things on a message board. (with all due respect, of course)
 
I am disappointed by how things twisted at Bundy ranch. Not at all surprised, but generally, the good folk that first showed up on the scene in all sincerity to help and to just be a voice that justice is done, have mostly gone. They have been worn out and replaced by people that are now what many of you described early on.. boys playing army. Now, most of these guys are true badasses and almost all have extensive military backgrounds, but their motives are not one and the same as the original supporters we first enjoyed speaking and visiting with.

I am done going to the ranch. It is a lost cause because too many good well-meaning people got frustrated by the inflow of maniacs.

I have not and likely will not give up on seeing the corruption investigated, but my badass atty advised me to take a step back and prepare a fight in Utah. Can't say much about that, but it made perfect sense to me. We're still hoping force an investigation for the last couple decades of abuse in NV, but we stand a better chance winning on the events that will shortly be more focused on Utah.

I know that sounds crazy to most and, fortunately for us all, I am exhausted and lack any desire to debate these things on a message board. (with all due respect, of course)

And this result is a surprise to you?

For every wrong done to a responsible gun owner, the NRA nut jobs take up the cause. For every environmental wrong done there are Sierra Club nut jobs taking up the cause. For every animal abuse cause, there are PETA nut jobs there to take over. The list is endless. Do what you need to, there really isn't anything else to do.
 
I am disappointed by how things twisted at Bundy ranch. Not at all surprised, but generally, the good folk that first showed up on the scene in all sincerity to help and to just be a voice that justice is done, have mostly gone. They have been worn out and replaced by people that are now what many of you described early on.. boys playing army. Now, most of these guys are true badasses and almost all have extensive military backgrounds, but their motives are not one and the same as the original supporters we first enjoyed speaking and visiting with.

I am done going to the ranch. It is a lost cause because too many good well-meaning people got frustrated by the inflow of maniacs.

I have not and likely will not give up on seeing the corruption investigated, but my badass atty advised me to take a step back and prepare a fight in Utah. Can't say much about that, but it made perfect sense to me. We're still hoping force an investigation for the last couple decades of abuse in NV, but we stand a better chance winning on the events that will shortly be more focused on Utah.

I know that sounds crazy to most and, fortunately for us all, I am exhausted and lack any desire to debate these things on a message board. (with all due respect, of course)

And this result is a surprise to you?

For every wrong done to a responsible gun owner, the NRA nut jobs take up the cause. For every environmental wrong done there are Sierra Club nut jobs taking up the cause. For every animal abuse cause, there are PETA nut jobs there to take over. The list is endless. Do what you need to, there really isn't anything else to do.

Your last sentence, though uber simple, I found somewhat profound in this moment.
 
Your last sentence, though uber simple, I found somewhat profound in this moment.

Which is why I didn't understand why you decided to go on the rants you made in this thread which are the same type of positions those nut jobs take. Didn't see why coming on telling us we don't essentially didn't deserve to be Americans based on information we didn't have that you were unable or unwilling to produce nor may necessarily agree with would in any case help your cause. That certainly didn't fit the "do what you need to" mantra.
 
Which is why I didn't understand why you decided to go on the rants you made in this thread which are the same type of positions those nut jobs take. Didn't see why coming on telling us we don't essentially didn't deserve to be Americans based on information we didn't have that you were unable or unwilling to produce nor may necessarily agree with would in any case help your cause. That certainly didn't fit the "do what you need to" mantra.

Oh c'mon bro.. I said the timing was poor to share but would shortly and I did. I'm pretty normal guy that got damn pissed about the corruption. DAMN pissed.
I'm sure that made me more hyperbolic than I normally would be. But I still don't see how we've just become so 'okay' with the **** people in power pull to the detriment of the common people. That's okay though. Really.
 
But I still don't see how we've just become so 'okay' with the **** people in power pull to the detriment of the common people. That's okay though. Really.

When politics is about how close you toe the party line and not the qualities of the individual is when that happens.
 
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