Yesterday - Bundy Ranch

[babe]

Do we really need to rehash Mormons' animosity towards the federal government and racist views of blacks?

Yes, Bundy's religion explained a lot to me about his outlook and stubbornness. He views himself as an altruistic patriot on a noble mission. In reality, he's a selfish cheap *** who doesn't want to pay his bills. There's a reason why people hate working in restaurants in utah county. Many Mormons are frugal cheap asses. They have large families so they try to save money with using excessive coupons and weak tips. At least once a week a fellow coworker would get a note written on a receipt saying something along the lines of, "10 percent is good enough for The Lord so why should i pay you more?"

In salt lake? Servers average a good 10-15 percent more on tips. That's literally $50-150 bucks more per day.

Every day I worked in the restaurant business in utah county we had folks thing to combine several coupons (even though they specifically state you cannot). When I worked up in salt lake? Never once did someone try to pull one on me by combining coupons.

I don't know what it's like in a "big city" like salt lake, but here in utah county people still talk about "Cain's sin" and how blacks weren't "ready" for the priesthood. I've even heard in some meetings that the holocaust was the Jews' punishment for rejecting Christ while American slavery was Cain's descendents punishment and Native American extinction/removal was their punishment for being lamanites.

The things said by that BYU professor being fired a few years ago weren't surprising to any familiar with utah county or BYU. He was merely repeating what had been said or insinuated during conference, sacrament meetings, and Sunday school countless times.

I'm not mudslinging I'm being serious here. Bundy's religious background sheds some light onto this. There's a lot of perverse thinking in rural Mormon places.

Trout, isn't your mom or grandma an ultra conservative weirdo who spews out racist vitriol? Where do you think she got that from?

Want to know what Bundy was 150 years ago? One of the MM massacre fellas. A backwards thinking hick who thought he was on some sort of altruistic mission against a foreign enemy.

Elder uchtdorf gave a talk last spring during conference about how past leaders have made mistakes. I think, in part, because of the closed-mindedness and rural nature of what was the home base of the LDS church. However, in just the past 50 years you've seen a surge in being an international church and expanding out of its rural and obscure borders.

Sometimes I think we can't solve problems in real time unless we understand the past; sometimes I wonder if we don't just get mired down in yesterday's problems when we try to put now in that context.

I don't think we're better than folks used to be, I think we're pretty much the same. We have new prejudices, new conceits, new hatreds, new wars. . . . and we think those former people were ignoramuses because they had theirs.

 

[babe]

This conspiracy involves way too much time and investment for what little reward.

So you don't think "conspiracy" is exactly an everyday sorta thing?

Two women talking. . . . A coach calling a huddle and a center calling a play. . ..

Three or four gas stations sorta having a custom of having the same price?

a few egotistical "intelligentsia" twenty-somethings with a plan for saving the potato bugs. . . .

a little "club" calling themselves a nearby mountain range for a name, getting funding from some mining cartel, a feedlot/meatpacking cartel, and a timber cartel, and an oil cartel. . . . to "save" an owl or a fish. . . .

anyone acting with a purpose to evade full publicity, I suppose, is just "being smart" in your book. Controlling the information, controlling the discussion, driving public policy in some purposed way the trailer trash just wouldn't understand. I get it.

A politician like Harry Reid has a lot of "supporters" who give him money or other critical support, politically. In a town like Vegas, you're an idiot if you don't think there's a lot of payoff deals being struck every day.

And in Vegas, you just won't "fit in" if you're not a "player", and you're a dumbass if you try to get in the way of anything Harry does.

I really think you're smarter than this. It looks to me like you've found your own teat.

maybe it even pours out free beer.

 

[babe]

So PKM's case is probably an example of abuse of power, including personal and crony financial exploitation of power. Such case are much more common that ever get brought to court, and very few courts will "stand in the breach" and defend equal rights under the law anymore. It's something, if a judge does that, that will earn his early removal from his court. Most judges today know that, and accept that as a fact of life, and are therefore just as corrupt as the politicians and government honchos and cartel-financed "enforcers" of this regime, politically-speaking.

I think our major media operations are pretty much in the sack as well. You just don't really get a good press by trying to do what's right, unless you are in fact just shamelessly exploiting some issue for the value that can be milked out of it for increasing the cash flow for the team. . . .

It's all one very good argument for believing that the government shouldn't not be a major land-holder, or a major force in economics. People who believe "big government" is less corrupt than smaller government branches can only believe that from a position of pretty abysmal ignorance. People who believe that while working for the government are the last people on the block you should trust.

 

[Deleted member 365]

I wish some natives had "stood their ground" and given Bundy's buddies a first hand lesson on the 2nd amendment the other day when they trespassed on 4-wheelers (illegally) onto federal lands loaded with Native American remains.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I wish some natives had "stood their ground" and given Bundy's buddies a first hand lesson on the 2nd amendment the other day when they trespassed on 4-wheelers (illegally) onto federal lands loaded with Native American remains.

That's rich.
Smh.

 

[Deleted member 365]

That's rich.
Smh.

Were you one of them?

The law is the law. If anarchists want to have lil pow wows on their own private land, then by all means, do it. Fry up some road kill, talk about bringing back slavery, and shoot stuff.

But keep your damn 4 wheelers off the native lands. Stop trespassing. Pay your damn bills.

Bundy is nothing more than the lazy *** welfare queens he was bitching about.

The natives had every right to defend the lands you and your ilk were desecrating the other day.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Were you one of them?

The law is the law. If anarchists want to have lil pow wows on their own private land, then by all means, do it. Fry up some road kill, talk about bringing back slavery, and shoot stuff.

But keep your damn 4 wheelers off the native lands. Stop trespassing. Pay your damn bills.

Bundy is nothing more than the lazy *** welfare queens he was bitching about.

The natives had every right to defend the lands you and your ilk were desecrating the other day.

Nope. Wasn't one of them. I went to the ranch, initially, to see for myself what was going on. I did my own mini-investigation.
I uncovered a ton of ****.. and there are no innocent parties. I turned over what I found to those that may be able to do something about it.

Then I backed away.

I can tell you this, though, your comments are ignorant of fairness and though there are a few truths in there, it's obvious you are willing to be spoonfed your ideals rather than be proactive in discovering your own truths. Which is fine, except when you spout about it in such a manner that implies you are somehow invested and/or entitled. Which is also fine.. except it makes you come off as either a douche or a dolt, or both. And that's fine too.

 

[Deleted member 365]

Nope. Wasn't one of them. I went to the ranch, initially, to see for myself what was going on. I did my own mini-investigation.
I uncovered a ton of ****.. and there are no innocent parties. I turned over what I found to those that may be able to do something about it.

Then I backed away.

I can tell you this, though, your comments are ignorant of fairness and though there are a few truths in there, it's obvious you are willing to be spoonfed your ideals rather than be proactive in discovering your own truths. Which is fine, except when you spout about it in such a manner that implies you are somehow invested and/or entitled. Which is also fine.. except it makes you come off as either a douche or a dolt, or both. And that's fine too.

I am freedom loving American who believes in honoring and sustaining the law. The American flag isn't just my flag when I get something out of it (like a welfare check or free land usage, like bundy).

There are rules and regulations. Laws and order. The law is the law. I don't pick and choose laws.

Bundy is nothing more than a criminal. A welfare queen. He's pissed off because he has to pay for land usage (likee everyone else does). And is subsidized by me and you. If he wants to use his "own" land then get off his *** and purchase land.

I feel like growing a garden. I think I'll just tear up a part of liberty park for my garden. Oh wait, I can't do that? Ok gang, this guvmint is out of control! Meet me at liberty part, high noon, with guns! I'm going to enlighten you with my thoughts on government and negroes!

Absolutely zero difference between that and Bundy. Zero.

He's a criminal and should be either out behind bars or shot (if he resists).

 

[Dr. Jones]

I am freedom loving American who believes in honoring and sustaining the law. The American flag isn't just my flag when I get something out of it (like a welfare check or free land usage, like bundy).

There are rules and regulations. Laws and order. The law is the law. I don't pick and choose laws.

Bundy is nothing more than a criminal. A welfare queen. He's pissed off because he has to pay for land usage (likee everyone else does). And is subsidized by me and you. If he wants to use his "own" land then get off his *** and purchase land.

I feel like growing a garden. I think I'll just tear up a part of liberty park for my garden.

Okay.. I'll play.

Who is subject to these laws you speak of?

 

[Deleted member 365]

Okay.. I'll play.

Who is subject to these laws you speak of?

All Americans are. If you live in this country you agree to follow our laws. Don't like it? Change it through the legislative and judicial processes.

Don't follow the law? Face the consequences. Pretty simple really. God gave us all free agency but he didn't give us freedom from consequences.

Bundy failed to change the laws, he didn't abide by them, and now he (should) face the consequences.

There's literally zero difference from me tearing up half of liberty park to grow crops and fleece the taxpayers of SL to subsidize my garden (and refusing to pay a usage fee) and Bundy. Thousands of other ranchers follow the rules. Bundy didn't.

 

[Dr. Jones]

All Americans are. If you live in this country you agree to follow our laws. Don't like it? Change it through the legislative and judicial processes.

Don't follow the law? Face the consequences. Pretty simple really. God gave us all free agency but he didn't give us freedom from consequences.

Cool. I follow.
Now, humor me.. what if those breaking the law are government officials? What if there have been attempts at investigations launched that have been thwarted by these same official's actions? Then what?
What if YOU were wronged by a politician breaking the law and the law itself wouldn't protect you?
(Just play along for a moment)
What would YOU do?

 

[Deleted member 365]

Cool. I follow.
Now, humor me.. what if those breaking the law are government officials? What if there have been attempts at investigations launched that have been thwarted by these same official's actions? Then what?
What if YOU were wronged by a politician breaking the law and the law itself wouldn't protect you?
(Just play along for a moment)
What would YOU do?

"Man does not simply exist but always decided what his existence will be, what he will become the next moment. By the same token, every human being has the freedom to change at any instant."

- Viktor Frankl (Holocaust survivor)

If someone had been through what Frankl had been through can say that, then what's Bundy's excuse?

To answer your question:

1. I'd ask myself why those people are doing stuff to me.
2. I'd go through the legal processes set up.
3. I would pay my fines and/move away.

A few years back I was cruising on the east side of SL valley. The speed limit wasn't posted and I was trying to make it to a game. I turned this corner and saw out of the corner of my eye a cop hiding in a LDS church parking lot. I knew immediately I was screwed. He came up, lights blazing, and I received a ticket.

Did I agree with the ticket? Heck no. Speed limit hadn't been posted for miles.
Did I like it? Of course not.
Is it illegal for a cop to hide in church parking lots? I thought so.
Did I appeal it? Absolutely.
Did I lose? Yep.
Did I pay the fine or start a cry asking for anarchists around to bring guns? I paid the fine.

Does that answer your question?

I don't feel like anything Bundy has done justifies his #1 mistake, he broke the law by using federal lands without paying the fees. Whatever happens after is inconsequential in my mind.

He had the choice decades ago to decide what kind of man he was going to be. He chose to be a welfare queen and refused to pay his fees. If I were his bishop I would immediately revoke his temple recommend/membership until he had changed. He's using his free agency to break laws and promote evil.

What part of law abiding citizens do the Bundy's not understand?

What would you do or think if I tore up half of liberty park for my own selfish desires?