Young American Men and Eastern Orthodoxy

[Al-O-Meter]

You are changing the subject, and the focus of the article, to a broader issue

Yes. You can find anecdotal examples of almost anything which is why such examples are of such little worth. The article you posted has no data at all to back any claims, and in fact seems centered on statistics from the COVID pandemic. People were converting to Eastern Orthodox religions at 'X' rate prior to the pandemic, but over the course of the pandemic it was 'Y' rate. How much is 'X'? They don't say. How much is 'Y'? They don't say. Is the rate now in 2025 higher or lower than during the pandemic? They don't say.

What I did was address the direction you seemed to want to go by bringing in some societal data, some actual substance instead of an anecdotal example with the opinion of some random guy.

 

[olden_undercover]

Male identity issues in American are of interest, and there does seem to be a crisis there, but religiosity in American is in freefall.

As for the crisis, it is entirely of society's making. Men are not more wanting of masculinity now than in the past. Kids of old idolized cowboys who saved and protected. Then there were army men. In the 80's there was He-Man. Don't even get me started on the 70's.



Somewhere along the line, being masculine became bad, toxic, undesirable. That drive for masculinity is hardwired. It is normal. I remember moving some hideously heavy piece of furniture with my brother-in-law and a friend. My 3 year old son rushed in to help us because in his mind that is what the men did. No one told him to do that, and I was afraid he'd get crushed if one of us lost our grip but after we moved it I high-fived him anyway. Unlike far too much of society, I am not going to discourage the behavior in my own kid. I do not think masculinity is toxic.

With no claims of being any kind of expert, I've never read the term "toxic masculinity" as a blanket criticism of masculinity-- i.e. that all masculinity is toxic, as you've implied. It's always seemed to me more of a distinction between expressions of masculinity: healthy masculinity and toxic masculinity. I'm sure you can agree there are good examples of both in our current culture.

 

[Red]

Red is posting propaganda he wants to be true

I am curious why you think I WANT it to be true? I’m not troubled at all by a person’s choice of faith, or no faith. Is it a “bad” trend for some young American men to be attracted to Eastern Orthodox? I can’t think of any reason. I left organized religion altogether at age 16, but I do understand the need many have for meaning in life, and the appeal faith has in providing that. Be it real or not, not really for me to decide, man is always going to seek meaning and solace. At least many will. I see no conflict between science and spirituality, but that’s a personal perspective. Bottom line, I could never fault anyone engaged in a search for meaning in life.

So, I’m assuming you think I want this to be true because it somehow says something “bad” about such young American men, or that such a suggested trend is somehow “bad”? Just guessing. It would not be my choice, but I went through that search for meaning already, still am walking that path, and we’re all different, and should try to be true to ourselves. No, it’s those young men’s journey, not my place to judge them. Again, I saw it as an interesting trend.

To me, one bottom line is most of us don’t realize what a human being really is. That can sound cryptic, and I won’t elaborate, it’s part of the answer I found searching for meaning. And I see a lot of my fellow humans searching for meaning these days, and overall, that search for meaning does not surprise me. Again, wants it to be true?? Well, if it helps them, sure….if it’s a mistake, I hope the blinders fall.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

With no claims of being any kind of expert, I've never read the term "toxic masculinity" as a blanket criticism of masculinity-- i.e. that all masculinity is toxic, as you've implied. It's always seemed to me more of a distinction between expressions of masculinity: healthy masculinity and toxic masculinity. I'm sure you can agree there are good examples of both in our current culture.

I don't agree at all. I think what is considered "toxic masculinity" is entirely subjective. Your line of distinction is not everyone's line of distinction, and vague lines means there is no way to defend any masculine trait against a charge of being toxic masculinity. The entire concept is to create a hostile environment. The college enrollment statistics demonstrate how effective the tactic is.

 

[LogGrad98]

I am curious why you think I WANT it to be true? I’m not troubled at all by a person’s choice of faith, or no faith. Is it a “bad” trend for some young American men to be attracted to Eastern Orthodox? I can’t think of any reason. I left organized religion altogether at age 16, but I do understand the need many have for meaning in life, and the appeal faith has in providing that. Be it real or not, not really for me to decide, man is always going to seek meaning and solace. At least many will. I see no conflict between science and spirituality, but that’s a personal perspective. Bottom line, I could never fault anyone engaged in a search for meaning in life.

So, I’m assuming you think I want this to be true because it somehow says something “bad” about such young American men, or that such a suggested trend is somehow “bad”? Just guessing. It would not be my choice, but I went through that search for meaning already, still am walking that path, and we’re all different, and should try to be true to ourselves. No, it’s those young men’s journey, not my place to judge them. Again, I saw it as an interesting trend.

To me, one bottom line is most of us don’t realize what a human being really is. That can sound cryptic, and I won’t elaborate, it’s part of the answer I found searching for meaning. And I see a lot of my fellow humans searching for meaning these days, and overall, that search for meaning does not surprise me. Again, wants it to be true?? Well, if it helps them, sure….if it’s a mistake, I hope the blinders fall.

Did he words it that way because he's a troll. He knows exactly what he said and why. To get a rise out of you so he can chuckle from pwning you. That's it.

 

[infection]

The fact that USA has huge number of filthy rich pastors, priests, preachers and other crooks using religion to become multi millionaires and fly in private jets is mindboggling. You guys are truly a unique nation.

In a country of over 330 million, how many of these people do you think there are? How many people would you estimate have been able to use religion to become a multimillionaire and fly on private jets? A significant percentage?

 

[MVP]

In a country of over 330 million, how many of these people do you think there are? How many people would you estimate have been able to use religion to become a multimillionaire and fly on private jets? A significant percentage?

There is significant percentage of really clueless people who made it happen for a few self proclaimed "chosen" ones though. I would estimate about 40% - those who think Earth is about 6000 years old for example.

 

[MVP]

Also, btw, since we're talking about the problems with American young men...

Why aren't we talking about the real reason male college enrollment is dropping?

We would rather talk about literally everything else.

celestemdavis.substack.com

"Her research shows that the reason fewer men are enrolling in veterinary school boils down to one factor: the number of women in the classroom."

I would think there are other reasons too. The shift towards more females in Veterinary industry is due to huge discrepancies in pay and difference in work load when working in small and large animal fields. 50-60 years ago, most vets were ending in large animal field - working with cows, horses, pigs etc - it was mostly manly profession, not too many females wanted to deal with large animals. Pet industry boom resulted in much bigger demand of small animal clinics and suddenly working with dogs, cats or rabbits in a nicely set up indoor clinic became much more attractive option then doing rectal exams or C sections on cows in -20C weather. Plus pay is much better.
In 1970 only 35% of vet graduates work in small animal clinics. 1990 already 63%, 2000 - 75%. Can't find data for 2020 for example but the trend almost matching male to female ratio.

 

[Sardines]

"Her research shows that the reason fewer men are enrolling in veterinary school boils down to one factor: the number of women in the classroom."

I would think there are other reasons too. The shift towards more females in Veterinary industry is due to huge discrepancies in pay and difference in work load when working in small and large animal fields. 50-60 years ago, most vets were ending in large animal field - working with cows, horses, pigs etc - it was mostly manly profession, not too many females wanted to deal with large animals. Pet industry boom resulted in much bigger demand of small animal clinics and suddenly working with dogs, cats or rabbits in a nicely set up indoor clinic became much more attractive option then doing rectal exams or C sections on cows in -20C weather. Plus pay is much better.
In 1970 only 35% of vet graduates work in small animal clinics. 1990 already 63%, 2000 - 75%. Can't find data for 2020 for example but the trend almost matching male to female ratio.

Taking pets in for checkups and paying for expensive surgeries is a thing now. 40 years ago if the cat got sick you generally just wished for the best and then maybe it died. Today you rush it to the vet urgent care at 2am, get a diagnosis that includes the need for a $6000 surgery and the animal is in the OR the next morning.

I love my pets (cats) but if the vet told me one needed a $1000 plus surgery then it was just snowflakes time to go and that's the end of that story.

 

[LogGrad98]

In a country of over 330 million, how many of these people do you think there are? How many people would you estimate have been able to use religion to become a multimillionaire and fly on private jets? A significant percentage?

Enough to cause significant damage to their parishioners. Even one mother who chooses paying her priest over her children is too many. Sheisters exist on the backs of the poor, and should be eradicated, regardless of the robes or magic underwear they wear.

If you want a real shock Google "lds leaders protecting child predators" and go down a few pages. Then Google "child molester second anointing". To those of you not connected to the lds church the second anointing is a ritual by which the prophet absolves one of all sin and makes their "calling and election" sure, meaning no matter what else they do in this life they get straight into heaven.

What a ****ing racket.

 

[LogGrad98]

Taking pets in for checkups and paying for expensive surgeries is a thing now. 40 years ago if the cat got sick you generally just wished for the best and then maybe it died. Today you rush it to the vet urgent care at 2am, get a diagnosis that includes the need for a $6000 surgery and the animal is in the OR the next morning.

I love my pets (cats) but if the vet told me one needed a $1000 plus surgery then it was just snowflakes time to go and that's the end of that story.

We paid $1200 for an emergency c-section for our dog who was almost 3 days past due when even a day or 2 can kill a small dog and all the puppies. One of those puppies belongs to our son now and three mother lived with us for a decade after that surgery which was amazing. For many people pets are their children considering how many people choose to not have children now compared to previous generations. So they'll spend the money pretty much no differently than you would for your child.

 

[Sardines]

We paid $1200 for an emergency c-section for our dog who was almost 3 days past due when even a day or 2 can kill a small dog and all the puppies. One of those puppies belongs to our son now and three mother lived with us for a decade after that surgery which was amazing. For many people pets are their children considering how many people choose to not have children now compared to previous generations. So they'll spend the money pretty much no differently than you would for your child.

I understand it and don't think people are wrong for doing it. I really do care about my cats but I know pets come and go. I've had a few cats for more than 20 years, but that's as much as you're going to get with your cat, a lot less usually for a dog.