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You're the GM this offseason. What do you do?

We are making a bit too much of Niko hitting a cold streak in the playoffs. He was cold Ersan was hot... Bud rode the hot hand. Niko was pretty damn good in the playoffs the year before and has played well against teams like GS and Houston the last 2 years... but yeah he won’t be able to stay on the court in the playoffs...

I agree. In addition, Mirotic had the problem that he's more of a 4 than anything else (he can do spot minutes elsewhere, but that's not ideal). When you're backing up the MVP, that's not going to lead to a lot of opportunities. Ersan is a little tougher and and more savvy defensively, and so he could more easily soak up backup-5 minutes. If he comes to the Jazz, he'll presumably have a PF spot that's perfectly suited to his strengths and capabilities.
 
I’m pretty sure they don’t have to. And even if there was a rule about it the nba doesn’t care about such rules.
Technically, he’s under contract. It’s tampering, but I doubt the Jazz are going to make a big deal out of it. Their options are simple.

A.) Keep him.

B.) Cut him.

C. Guarantee his contract and trade him.
 
Ok, so here are my thoughts from a yesterday and a few pages back re: Harris and Niko.

I like Harris and it would be really awesome to have him. Before the Conley trade, I think throwing a max at him is a no brained because our team was starved for talent and if we didn’t land any, we’d be ****ed (and be looking at a Kevin Love deal, but I digress). That being said, how good is he? I mentioned that I feel he’s a touch overrated here (not an argument that he’s not good, just that he’s getting a bit overhyped — just wait until we saw his flaws). This board also historically hasn’t been so pro-Harris. I’m not saying a lot of people here haven’t liked him, because they have, but a year ago if you were to say he’d be our big catch, people would be a bit underwhelmed. The fact that we’ve focused on him so much has made him more alluring. As a parallel, the Conley deal has been widely embraced by us. However, when the rumors surfaced at the deadline this was not so. Our discussions about him have allowed our hype to pick up (not that this is right or wrong, just speaking matter of factly).

So I don’t know how much of that is going on with Harris. Back when he was in Detroit I remember his name periodically coming up and I never really considered him as our stretch four option because it seemed like he was more of a tweener (poor rebounder) and hadn’t really proved himself as a three point shooter at that point. But he played exceptionally well over his time in LA, was really hitting the three, and was grabbing boards at a good rate. If you were to ask me a year ago who I’d take between him and Niko, it’s Niko all the way. But there’s a recency bias at play. Lots of teams talking about maxing him. Is he a max guy? He may get it, but in reality we know it’s a bit of an overlay with how things are currently.

Regarding Niko, the big issue that’s brought up is the idea that he’s a sieve. Lots of guys end up being labeled such and because it keeps getting repeated, it becomes greatly caricatured and not matching up with reality. The way people talk is as if it is Melo level liability (with lots of guys, not just Niko). On the flip side, Harris isn’t a defender. Our need for Harris as a creator, as mentioned, is lessened. And it’s a very valid question to wonder what percentage of production Niko could provide of Harris but at less than half the price. Niko can space the floor from anywhere. Very quick release. He of big of a defensive difference is there between Harris and Niko? Is Niko’s defensive reputation augmented at all on the backdrop of him being viewed as a big, European stiff?

Still, the Jazz have passed up opportunities to land him. Is he really a guy closing games? Despite discussion over the years of Quin wanting a stretch four, he’s had two of them. Now, Novak and Jonas are both fairly flawed and certainly not in the same league as Niko, but I thought both those guys should have gotten a bit more burn than they did, and Quin seemed to have both in the doghouse. Is Niko up to snuff for Quin? Would he ever close games? I have no idea. If not, I think it really lessens his value to the team. The same goes for Favors. I think it’s hard to argue that someone is going to make such a large impact, or is “so important,” yet they never close games. That goes for Favors. And if that’s the same for Niko, then you may as well spend even half of what you would on Niko for someone else to come off the bench (or at least not close games) who can hit open shots.
 
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Miami is all about Butler. Miami even has a meeting set with him: https://heatnation.com/rumors/miami-heat-rumors-meeting-jimmy-butler/ What about...

Miami gets Butler
Philly get Exum (and some minor draft considerations from Miami and us)
Utah gets Winslow and Olynyk

Philly would still re-sign Tobias Harris and Redick. Getting Exum (who I'm making the assumption they would want), is better than just losing Butler for nothing.
Ha, they’re already offered Capella and Gordon in a sign and trade for Butler, but they would take Exum instead?
 
Ok, so here are my thoughts from a yesterday and a few pages back re: Harris and Niko.

I like Harris and it would be really awesome to have him. Before the Conley trade, I think throwing a max at him is a no brained because our team was starved for talent and if we didn’t land any, we’d be ****ed (and be looking at a Kevin Love deal, but I digress). That being said, how good is he? I mentioned that I feel he’s a touch overrated here (not an argument that he’s not good, just that he’s getting a bit overhyped — just wait until we saw his flaws). This board also historically hasn’t been so pro-Harris. I’m not saying a lot of people here haven’t liked him, because they have, but a year ago if you were to say he’d be our big catch, people would be a bit underwhelmed. The fact that we’ve focused on him so much has made him more alluring. As a parallel, the Conley deal has been widely embraced by us. However, when the rumors surfaced at the deadline this was not so. Our discussions about him have allowed our hype to pick up (not that this is right or wrong, just speaking matter of factly).

So I don’t know how much of that is going on with Harris. Back when he was in Detroit I remember his name periodically coming up and I never really considered him as our stretch four option because it seemed like he was more of a tweener (poor rebounder) and hadn’t really proved himself as a three point shooter at that point. But he played exceptionally well over his time in LA, was really hitting the three, and was grabbing boards at a good rate. If you were to ask me a year ago who I’d take between him and Niko, it’s Niko all the way. But there’s a decency bias at play. Lots of teams talking about maxing him. Is he a max guy? He may get it, but in reality we know it’s a bit of an overlay with how things are currently.

Regarding Niko, the big issue that’s brought up is the idea that he’s a sieve. Lots of guys end up being labeled such and because it keeps getting repeated, it becomes greatly caricatured and not matching up with reality. The way people talk is as if it is Melo level liability (with lots of guys, not just Niko). On the flip side, Harris isn’t a defender. Our need for Harris as a creator, as mentioned, is lessened. And it’s a very valid question to wonder what percentage of production Niko could provide of Harris but at less than half the price. Niko can space the floor from anywhere. Very quick release. He of big of a defensive difference is there between Harris and Niko? Is Niko’s defensive reputation augmented at all on the backdrop of him being viewed as a big, European stiff?

Still, the Jazz have passed up opportunities to land him. Is he really a guy closing games? Despite discussion over the years of Quin wanting a stretch four, he’s had two of them. Now, Novak and Jonas are both fairly flawed and certainly not in the same league as Niko, but I thought both those guys should have gotten a bit more burn than they did, and Quin seemed to have both in the doghouse. Is Niko up to snuff for Quin? Would he ever close games? I have no idea. If not, I think it really lessens his value to the team. The same goes for Favors. I think it’s hard to argue that someone is going to make such a large impact, or is “so important,” yet they never close games. That goes for Favors. And if that’s the same for Niko, then you may as well spend even half of what you would on Niko for someone else to come off the bench (or at least not close games) who can hit open shots.

Nice. I think people see big white Euro guy with a punchable face and think he must be the worst defender ever. He tries and is fine on that end.

Bobby Portis and Harris are both minus defenders too but they look like they are better on defense.

Niko is no stiff... he’s no stand still just spot up guy... he gets looks of pin down screens, makes good cuts, can grab the rebound and bring it up the court... he also runs the court well.

He’s streaky... but will never be ignored.

Favs is beloved and deservedly so. He’s been a great player and person. He needs to be somewhere he can shine.

I just think we need to flip the script here a bit... let’s say we had 17M in space and Capela was on the market and wanted to take that deal. He can guard on the perimeter and backup Rudy... would we be clamoring to sign him?
 
Ok, so here are my thoughts from a yesterday and a few pages back re: Harris and Niko.

I like Harris and it would be really awesome to have him. Before the Conley trade, I think throwing a max at him is a no brained because our team was starved for talent and if we didn’t land any, we’d be ****ed (and be looking at a Kevin Love deal, but I digress). That being said, how good is he? I mentioned that I feel he’s a touch overrated here (not an argument that he’s not good, just that he’s getting a bit overhyped — just wait until we saw his flaws). This board also historically hasn’t been so pro-Harris. I’m not saying a lot of people here haven’t liked him, because they have, but a year ago if you were to say he’d be our big catch, people would be a bit underwhelmed. The fact that we’ve focused on him so much has made him more alluring. As a parallel, the Conley deal has been widely embraced by us. However, when the rumors surfaced at the deadline this was not so. Our discussions about him have allowed our hype to pick up (not that this is right or wrong, just speaking matter of factly).

So I don’t know how much of that is going on with Harris. Back when he was in Detroit I remember his name periodically coming up and I never really considered him as our stretch four option because it seemed like he was more of a tweener (poor rebounder) and hadn’t really proved himself as a three point shooter at that point. But he played exceptionally well over his time in LA, was really hitting the three, and was grabbing boards at a good rate. If you were to ask me a year ago who I’d take between him and Niko, it’s Niko all the way. But there’s a decency bias at play. Lots of teams talking about maxing him. Is he a max guy? He may get it, but in reality we know it’s a bit of an overlay with how things are currently.

Regarding Niko, the big issue that’s brought up is the idea that he’s a sieve. Lots of guys end up being labeled such and because it keeps getting repeated, it becomes greatly caricatured and not matching up with reality. The way people talk is as if it is Melo level liability (with lots of guys, not just Niko). On the flip side, Harris isn’t a defender. Our need for Harris as a creator, as mentioned, is lessened. And it’s a very valid question to wonder what percentage of production Niko could provide of Harris but at less than half the price. Niko can space the floor from anywhere. Very quick release. He of big of a defensive difference is there between Harris and Niko? Is Niko’s defensive reputation augmented at all on the backdrop of him being viewed as a big, European stiff?

Still, the Jazz have passed up opportunities to land him. Is he really a guy closing games? Despite discussion over the years of Quin wanting a stretch four, he’s had two of them. Now, Novak and Jonas are both fairly flawed and certainly not in the same league as Niko, but I thought both those guys should have gotten a bit more burn than they did, and Quin seemed to have both in the doghouse. Is Niko up to snuff for Quin? Would he ever close games? I have no idea. If not, I think it really lessens his value to the team. The same goes for Favors. I think it’s hard to argue that someone is going to make such a large impact, or is “so important,” yet they never close games. That goes for Favors. And if that’s the same for Niko, then you may as well spend even half of what you would on Niko for someone else to come off the bench (or at least not close games) who can hit open shots.

Decency bias?
 
Listened to an interview tony Jones did... said Niko was a guy the Jazz were definitely targeting.

He mentioned Ariza and Danny Green again as well. Said Portis wants to play with Conley (Arkansas connection).
 
Ok, so here are my thoughts from a yesterday and a few pages back re: Harris and Niko.

I like Harris and it would be really awesome to have him. Before the Conley trade, I think throwing a max at him is a no brained because our team was starved for talent and if we didn’t land any, we’d be ****ed (and be looking at a Kevin Love deal, but I digress). That being said, how good is he? I mentioned that I feel he’s a touch overrated here (not an argument that he’s not good, just that he’s getting a bit overhyped — just wait until we saw his flaws). This board also historically hasn’t been so pro-Harris. I’m not saying a lot of people here haven’t liked him, because they have, but a year ago if you were to say he’d be our big catch, people would be a bit underwhelmed. The fact that we’ve focused on him so much has made him more alluring. As a parallel, the Conley deal has been widely embraced by us. However, when the rumors surfaced at the deadline this was not so. Our discussions about him have allowed our hype to pick up (not that this is right or wrong, just speaking matter of factly).

So I don’t know how much of that is going on with Harris. Back when he was in Detroit I remember his name periodically coming up and I never really considered him as our stretch four option because it seemed like he was more of a tweener (poor rebounder) and hadn’t really proved himself as a three point shooter at that point. But he played exceptionally well over his time in LA, was really hitting the three, and was grabbing boards at a good rate. If you were to ask me a year ago who I’d take between him and Niko, it’s Niko all the way. But there’s a decency bias at play. Lots of teams talking about maxing him. Is he a max guy? He may get it, but in reality we know it’s a bit of an overlay with how things are currently.

Regarding Niko, the big issue that’s brought up is the idea that he’s a sieve. Lots of guys end up being labeled such and because it keeps getting repeated, it becomes greatly caricatured and not matching up with reality. The way people talk is as if it is Melo level liability (with lots of guys, not just Niko). On the flip side, Harris isn’t a defender. Our need for Harris as a creator, as mentioned, is lessened. And it’s a very valid question to wonder what percentage of production Niko could provide of Harris but at less than half the price. Niko can space the floor from anywhere. Very quick release. He of big of a defensive difference is there between Harris and Niko? Is Niko’s defensive reputation augmented at all on the backdrop of him being viewed as a big, European stiff?

Still, the Jazz have passed up opportunities to land him. Is he really a guy closing games? Despite discussion over the years of Quin wanting a stretch four, he’s had two of them. Now, Novak and Jonas are both fairly flawed and certainly not in the same league as Niko, but I thought both those guys should have gotten a bit more burn than they did, and Quin seemed to have both in the doghouse. Is Niko up to snuff for Quin? Would he ever close games? I have no idea. If not, I think it really lessens his value to the team. The same goes for Favors. I think it’s hard to argue that someone is going to make such a large impact, or is “so important,” yet they never close games. That goes for Favors. And if that’s the same for Niko, then you may as well spend even half of what you would on Niko for someone else to come off the bench (or at least not close games) who can hit open shots.

Thanks for the thoughts. I think you've hit the nail on the head, though I might draw some different conclusions. For Quin, and I presume the Jazz generally, it's nice to have a stretch four, but it's not just any stretch four that will do. They have to be able to hold up and play a well-rounded game. Can Mirotic do this? I think so, though I'm not fully confident. I'd sure bet on him over the Portis's or JaM. Greens or even 2019-20 Bjelicias of the NBA. But if the Jazz can't find someone they have decent confidence in, then let's just keep Favors and see if one of these shooter types can be had on the cheap.

I think for the Jazz, it's probably always been about the cost for Mirotic. I don't think there's too much to read into the fact that they could have had him in the past but chose not to close the deal. Maybe it means that he was (rightly, in my mind) not viewed as the single key to unlock 5 more wins and playoff prosperity, but they can still value him as an important part of a team concept.

I'm not sure what to make of the closing-the-game issue. Right now, who is our closer at the 4? If we got Mirotic, I'd presume he'd be the heavy favorite (unless Quin just has a thing about more mobility at end of games and decides to go with Royce). In any case, I doubt the Jazz would chase him if they didn't think he had a good chance of making a strong positive impact on the team.
 
how much moolah is Niko going to command ?? If he's cheap great but if we have to give up anything of significance to get him i'll be pissed
 
Listened to an interview tony Jones did... said Niko was a guy the Jazz were definitely targeting.

He mentioned Ariza and Danny Green again as well. Said Portis wants to play with Conley (Arkansas connection).

I've always got the vibe that Ariza is Tony's choice and is less a product of the Jazz mentioning him (though perhaps that could have happened as well). But I'm almost certain that the Mirotic interest is the Jazz's, not Tony's. Danny Green could be an either/or/both situation.
 
I've always got the vibe that Ariza is Tony's choice and is less a product of the Jazz mentioning him (though perhaps that could have happened as well). But I'm almost certain that the Mirotic interest is the Jazz's, not Tony's. Danny Green could be an either/or/both situation.

Danny and Quin are cool from Quins spurs days.

Tony is anti-Niko... if he says they targeting him and it’s a possibility then it came from a source.

I think Ariza is his suggestion at the room exception... I think that’s wishful thinking.
 
Danny and Quin are cool from Quins spurs days.

Tony is anti-Niko... if he says they targeting him and it’s a possibility then it came from a source.

I think Ariza is his suggestion at the room exception... I think that’s wishful thinking.
Ariza is not good and only declining. People need to divorce themselves from the name.
 
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