What Utah going to the Pac does to rivalries

[SaltyDawg]

To tell you you my opinion on it, I think Utah will be in the top 1/3 of the new PAC just about every year, with a shot at winning it some years. My only point was that I don't think this next year (2010) is one of those years.

So then this year, who are these teams that you think would finish ahead of the Utes in the PAC this year?

I could understand your argument if you said this year the Utes would do well in the PAC, but in the future you don't see it or something like that. But you pretty much said the opposite, that Utah would suck in the PAC this year but in the future they will do well.

I just can't see how anyone can say that. The team that won the PAC (and all the "experts" picked to win the PAC this year too) is a team that barely beat Utah, with Utah's crappy QB starting, in Oregon, and has since kicked their starting QB off the team.
The team that finished second is now getting smacked down by the NCAA and won't be in contention for several years.
One of the teams that tied for 3rd int he PAC is the team Utah blew out in the Poinsettia Bowl.

Utah is going to be a lot better this year than last year. I don't think anyone disputes that. Last year we had a new QB who was fresh out of high school and everyone expected to red shirt. He will be a lot better and more experienced this year. We also had 2 new coordinators. And we still would have finished int he top 1/3 of the PAC last year.

Yeah, I would love to see the teams you think would finish ahead of Utah in the PAC this year, or would beat Utah head to head.

 

[TroutBum]

So then this year, who are these teams that you think would finish ahead of the Utes in the PAC this year?

I could understand your argument if you said this year the Utes would do well in the PAC, but in the future you don't see it or something like that. But you pretty much said the opposite, that Utah would suck in the PAC this year but in the future they will do well.

I just can't see how anyone can say that. The team that won the PAC (and all the "experts" picked to win the PAC this year too) is a team that barely beat Utah, with Utah's crappy QB starting, in Oregon, and has since kicked their starting QB off the team.
The team that finished second is now getting smacked down by the NCAA and won't be in contention for several years.
One of the teams that tied for 3rd int he PAC is the team Utah blew out in the Poinsettia Bowl.

Utah is going to be a lot better this year than last year. I don't think anyone disputes that. Last year we had a new QB who was fresh out of high school and everyone expected to red shirt. He will be a lot better and more experienced this year. We also had 2 new coordinators. And we still would have finished int he top 1/3 of the PAC last year.

Yeah, I would love to see the teams you think would finish ahead of Utah in the PAC this year, or would beat Utah head to head.

So, what does it say about the Utes and their chances in the PAC when they can't even beat the lowly Cougars of the MWC? Again, I can't wait to hear the excuses in the coming years.

 

[Duck Rodgers]

Rose Bowl or Vegas Bowl? Do you honestly see most recruits picking BYU? Maybe a few here and there for religious reasons. But nobody is going to pick BYU for football reasons, that's for sure.

Again, we have been going head to head with Texas, USC, and Notre Dame with players and winning. Andrew Rich turned down a scholarship at Cal to walk on at BYU. Why do you think Utah is all of the sudden going to leap above those teams? The Rose Bowl isn't going to be a place the Utes see often except when they play UCLA. Why aren't all of BYU's current in-state commits jumping to Utah? Utah has offered most of them. The answer is because they want to go to BYU. But feel free to post on this board as soon as the Pac 10 effect starts kicking in. I'll be waiting.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

Yeah, I really don't think BYU recruiting is changed too much by Utah going to the Pac-10. BYU has been getting top notch recruits from out of state before. And with Utah's recruiting getting better out of state, they'll get fewer in state kids, leading more to go to BYU.

I SERIOUSLY doubt there are that many kids that will choose between Utah and BYU because of conference affiliation.

 

[Duck Rodgers]

I SERIOUSLY doubt there are that many kids that will choose between Utah and BYU because of conference affiliation.

I should add that I do agree with Salty in that I believe that the kids that explicitly state they want to play in a bigger conference, Havili, Ngata, etc. might end up at Utah. Utah's recruiting is going to go up some notches, I'm not denying that. Even if they only get 1 player a year that they wouldn't have before, that's a big deal. One good player is enough to make a huge difference in the team game of football.

I should also note that I don't think BYU's recruiting would change all that much if we jumped to the Big 12. BYU has to recruit LDS players no matter what. If there were 0 scholarship worthy LDS players in a particular recruiting class, BYU would still be forced to offer at least a good 15/25 scholarships to LDS players. That is a big unwritten rule at that school.

I've stated many times how I'm jealous of how Utah hits the JC ranks. I wish BYU would do more of it. BYU's recruiting world is pretty small all things considered, but it's mostly self induced.

 

[colton]

I should add that I do agree with Salty in that I believe that the kids that explicitly state they want to play in a bigger conference, Havili, Ngata, etc. might end up at Utah.

I have to admit, I initially read that as "Hava Nagila" and wondered, "What the heck?"

 

[SaltyDawg]

So, what does it say about the Utes and their chances in the PAC when they can't even beat the lowly Cougars of the MWC? Again, I can't wait to hear the excuses in the coming years.

Utah can and will beat BYU.

BYU barely wins a home game, in OT, against a rebuilding Utah team, and that somehow translates into Utah can't ever beat them in your mind? LOL, we'll see if BYU can even keep it close this year.

No need for excuses. Utah will be in contention for a spot in the Rose Bowl next year.

 

[SaltyDawg]

Again, we have been going head to head with Texas, USC, and Notre Dame with players and winning. Andrew Rich turned down a scholarship at Cal to walk on at BYU. Why do you think Utah is all of the sudden going to leap above those teams? The Rose Bowl isn't going to be a place the Utes see often except when they play UCLA. Why aren't all of BYU's current in-state commits jumping to Utah? Utah has offered most of them. The answer is because they want to go to BYU. But feel free to post on this board as soon as the Pac 10 effect starts kicking in. I'll be waiting.

First off, yeah right. BYU is not going head to head with Texas, USC, and Notre Dame and winning. Maybe once in a blue moon someone will choose BYU over those schools, but at least 85 times out of 100, and probably more often than that, those schools win the head to head recruiting battle with BYU. Utah probably won't jump up to that level, but they will certainly beat BYU in most head to head recruiting battles.

As for seeing the PAC effect- I already posted a couple of links. Go back and listen to that Kyle Whittingham interview. He flat out says that it has already had a big impact on recruiting, saying 40-50 potential recruits called him within 24 hours of the announcement. And I posted another link to an article claiming Whitt's cell phone battery was dead due to all the calls from recruits within a couple days of the announcement. So the effect is already being seen, and I already posted 2 links that point it out.

And we know one thing for absolute certainty- Utah will play in the Rose Bowl before BYU. So you can run the weak smack about Utah not competing for the Rose Bowl. But the fact of the matter is, Utah would compete for the Rose Bowl this season if they were in the PAC. They will be in the PAC next season, and returning most skilled players. So they will probably have a good chance at the Rose Bowl next year too. BYU isn't even in that discussion. And if you don't think recruits care about that, you're crazy.

Again, I understand that here and there a good recruit might choose BYU for religious reasons. But those are certainly not going to be the norm, or par for the course.

I don't think Utah and BYU go after too many of the same out of state kids, so this will probably only affect the in state kids. And if you don't think kids growing up in Utah want to play in the Rose Bowl and possibly compete for a national championship, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Scat]

Utah fans thinking they will from here on out compete for the PAC-12 title and a shot at the Rose Bowl every single year are more than just a little delusional. I'M LOOKING MOSTLY AT YOU SALTY. When teams such as UCLA cannot annually compete for the title do Utah fans really think they are that much better? Have that many more good recruits? Have that much more money to throw at the F-Ball team? Do you, Salty, really think that Utah has a better chance of perennially reiging in the PAC than teams such as UCLA, USC or Washington? If you answer yes to this there is nothing more to discuss because you have officially taken the crazy train to nutsville.

Utah has had a good run the past decade and in all honesty are probably amongst the best in the PAC at the current moment. That said, I think Salty is dangerously overlooking WA. I bet they take the PAC this year, and next. All things are cyclical and eventually Utah will fall on hard times again. Rather than having a better than average shot at the title as they did in the MWC, they could easily end up perennial cellar dwellers in the PAC, no different than ASU or WSU. Look at OSU. They had a couple of great years but chances are you'll never hear from this team again in our lifetime. Yeah, they have a great year about once every 10-15 years and then they are nobodies for another decade. I would not be surprised at all to see Utah in this position by 2015, if not sooner. Enjoy the success while you can Utah. It won't last. You are one of the nobodies of the PAC.

 

[SaltyDawg]

Utah fans thinking they will from here on out compete for the PAC-12 title and a shot at the Rose Bowl every single year are more than just a little delusional. I'M LOOKING MOSTLY AT YOU SALTY. When teams such as UCLA cannot annually compete for the title do Utah fans really think they are that much better? Have that many more good recruits? Have that much more money to throw at the F-Ball team? Do you, Salty, really think that Utah has a better chance of perennially reiging in the PAC than teams such as UCLA, USC or Washington? If you answer yes to this there is nothing more to discuss because you have officially taken the crazy train to nutsville.

Utah has had a good run the past decade and in all honesty are probably amongst the best in the PAC at the current moment. That said, I think Salty is dangerously overlooking WA. I bet they take the PAC this year, and next. All things are cyclical and eventually Utah will fall on hard times again. Rather than having a better than average shot at the title as they did in the MWC, they could easily end up perennial cellar dwellers in the PAC, no different than ASU or WSU. Look at OSU. They had a couple of great years but chances are you'll never hear from this team again in our lifetime. Yeah, they have a great year about once every 10-15 years and then they are nobodies for another decade. I would not be surprised at all to see Utah in this position by 2015, if not sooner. Enjoy the success while you can Utah. It won't last. You are one of the nobodies of the PAC.

I have no reason at all to think Utah can't compete in the PAC. UCLA can't even compete with Utah, so them not competing for the PAC means nothing.

USC is done. I don't know if you missed their punishment or not, but they had a bunch of scholorships stripped form them, and they are banned from playing in bowl games for a bit. So the few scholorships they have left are going to be harder to fill. In addition to that, they are trying to break in a new coach.

Washington may very well win the PAC this year. But you can bet Utah would be the favorite to win it if they were in the PAC this year. And only the most delusional of BYU fans feel differently.

By the way, Washington will probably not even be in Utah's division in the PAC. Utah will be with Colorado, Arizona, Arizona State, UCLA, and USC. None of those teams are teams that should be considered better than Utah right now. And winning a game against Washington (or whoever) in the PAC championship game is certainly not an impossible task either. For you to say Utah is a nobody in the PAC, when they are likely in the PAC championship game this year if they are in the PAC, is just crazy talk.

 

[bigb]

So then this year, who are these teams that you think would finish ahead of the Utes in the PAC this year?

I could understand your argument if you said this year the Utes would do well in the PAC, but in the future you don't see it or something like that. But you pretty much said the opposite, that Utah would suck in the PAC this year but in the future they will do well.

I just can't see how anyone can say that. The team that won the PAC (and all the "experts" picked to win the PAC this year too) is a team that barely beat Utah, with Utah's crappy QB starting, in Oregon, and has since kicked their starting QB off the team.
The team that finished second is now getting smacked down by the NCAA and won't be in contention for several years.
One of the teams that tied for 3rd int he PAC is the team Utah blew out in the Poinsettia Bowl.

Utah is going to be a lot better this year than last year. I don't think anyone disputes that. Last year we had a new QB who was fresh out of high school and everyone expected to red shirt. He will be a lot better and more experienced this year. We also had 2 new coordinators. And we still would have finished int he top 1/3 of the PAC last year.

Yeah, I would love to see the teams you think would finish ahead of Utah in the PAC this year, or would beat Utah head to head.

You haven't said anything to oppose my statement that Utah won't win the MWC this year. I'll take that to mean you agree with it. And yet you continue to say that Utah would win the PAC this year. Does that make the MWC better than the PAC this year?
You keep mentioning the QB that isn't on Oregon's team anymore. Have you forgotten how many of Utah's players that aren't on the team anymore? You just automatically assume Utah will be better than Oregon now because they kicked their QB off the team. What about all the defensive players Utah lost? Not to mention the All-American offensive lineman. You don't just replace those guys and expect the new team to be better than they were the year before.
I'll say it again for you: DELUSIONAL

 

[//r00t 4 Jazz]

I'm not quite as optimistic as Salty but see his point on some things, I think TCU is the likely favorite to win the MWC this year and there are a few question marks with the U's defense and WR position this year so we'll have to see but I think it's reasonable to say they can come in 2nd behind TCU. Also don't worry Duck (or other Y fans) just cause the U is going to the PAC10 I don't think most U fans think that TCU, Boise & even the Y couldn't compete in the PAC10 heck I'd bet TCU would've won it last and be favored to win it this year as well.

I don't think most U fans think they'll go undefeated but in the PAC10 they wont have to 2 losses can still get you into a BCS bowl and 1 loss can still get to the BCS championship some years.

 

[TroutBum]

Utah can and will beat BYU.

BYU barely wins a home game, in OT, against a rebuilding Utah team, and that somehow translates into Utah can't ever beat them in your mind? LOL, we'll see if BYU can even keep it close this year.

No need for excuses. Utah will be in contention for a spot in the Rose Bowl next year.

How funny. You sit here and flap the hole under your nose about how the MWC is now an inferior conference, how all of a sudden Utah is some big-time power house, and that you're automatically going to some bigger bowl game. Here's the kicker, you keep talking about what WILL happen -- which means, clearly, that you have no idea what will happen, and that your opinion > science. Let me hit you with some knowledge: Utah lost to BYU last year. I don't care if it was at home, if it was close, if it was a blow out, if it was played naked -- it doesn't matter, you lost. How can you honestly say that you're going to win the PAC and get into some Uber-Bowl when you've proven that you can't even compete at the MWC level?

"LOL TROUT, YOUR SUCH A HOMER! WE HAD A ROOKIE QB AND BARELY LOST, LOL!!11" It doesn't matter. You guys didn't win. You will continue to not win. You will continue to have excuses, just like always -- except now you can't blame the conference for your woes. I can't wait.

 

[UGLI baby]

Hey guys, so what do you think about Utah going to the Pac-12 and byu staying in the WAC?

As a Utes fan I'm really excited. The Pac-12 is a BCS conference and Utah really likes going to BCS games. I think one of the main reasons we made the move is because we haven't gone to The Rose Bowl yet and the champion of the Pac-12 gets to go there, unless they go to the National championship game.

So, are byu fans happy with staying in the WAC or do you guys wish you went somewhere else? I kind of think it was a mistake. I know you guys like the Vegas bowl alot but there is more money and publicity that goes along with being in The Rose Bowl.

After reading some of these posts from byu fans I realize the Pac-12 isnt the hotbed for recruiting that the Wac is. To be honest though, I think that within a few years the Pac-12 will be known as the premier conference in the West and the cougs will be on the outside looking in.

 

[//r00t 4 Jazz]

Hey Trout I know your not talking to me, I just wanted to say most of the time with a true freshman QB a team and their fans understand (even if they don't like it) that a team may lose a few extra games and I think that is what Salty is trying to convey. Just like this year for you team with Heaps(? I think is his name) if he starts he will be a true freshman, he may be a very good QB but there will be growing pains as with any rookie.

*Or I could just stop playing peace maker and keep with the smack talk and say I guess Collie was right about living right that's why the U is in the PAC10 and TDS is jealous*

 

[TroutBum]

You Utah fans are so cute. As usual, I'll just sit back and watch. Keep talking your smack, keep acting like you're better, and keep being yourselves. I really do enjoy the off-season -- it's like shooting fish in a barrel.

 

[RobDMB]

You Utah fans are so cute. As usual, I'll just sit back and watch. Keep talking your smack, keep acting like you're better, and keep being yourselves. I really do enjoy the off-season -- it's like shooting fish in a barrel.

You have a huge amount of confidence in a team that disappoints more than not. I will admit that BYU has great football teams most of the time; but how many times have they lived up to or exceeded expectations? You're pimping a team that SHOULD have gone to a BCS bowl game by now but just can't get there. It's not like you root for a perennial powerhouse, it's just BYU.

You also keep claiming that Utah fans are displaying blind favoritism towards some inferior team... you are doing exactly the same thing. Utah's football program has proven it's worth, BYU's simply has not. Just because BYU beat the U head to head last year and a few times this decade in a heated rivalry doesn't mean they are a better team. Rivalry games are ALWAYS hotly contested no matter the record of the teams coming in.

Utah has played their way into a big conference which has a LOT of percs. BYU will continue to do well in the MWC and Utah will keep trying to make a name for itself in the PAC-12, that's all this really means.

 

[TroutBum]

You have a huge amount of confidence in a team that disappoints more than not. I will admit that BYU has great football teams most of the time; but how many times have they lived up to or exceeded expectations? You're pimping a team that SHOULD have gone to a BCS bowl game by now but just can't get there. It's not like you root for a perennial powerhouse, it's just BYU.

You also keep claiming that Utah fans are displaying blind favoritism towards some inferior team... you are doing exactly the same thing. Utah's football program has proven it's worth, BYU's simply has not. Just because BYU beat the U head to head last year and a few times this decade in a heated rivalry doesn't mean they are a better team. Rivalry games are ALWAYS hotly contested no matter the record of the teams coming in.

Utah has played their way into a big conference which has a LOT of percs. BYU will continue to do well in the MWC and Utah will keep trying to make a name for itself in the PAC-12, that's all this really means.

Except... you'll never find a post from me talking about how supperior BYU is. I understand that BYU isn't some super power house. I understand that we haven't done much of anything since '84. What I AM pointing out is that NEITHER HAS UTAH. Hooray for BCS games! We took third! YAY! You haven't proven jack squat, but if you ask any of the Homersexuals on this board, Utah is the King of the Universe and nobody can beat them. (except BYU)

 

[SaltyDawg]

You haven't said anything to oppose my statement that Utah won't win the MWC this year. I'll take that to mean you agree with it. And yet you continue to say that Utah would win the PAC this year. Does that make the MWC better than the PAC this year?
You keep mentioning the QB that isn't on Oregon's team anymore. Have you forgotten how many of Utah's players that aren't on the team anymore? You just automatically assume Utah will be better than Oregon now because they kicked their QB off the team. What about all the defensive players Utah lost? Not to mention the All-American offensive lineman. You don't just replace those guys and expect the new team to be better than they were the year before.
I'll say it again for you: DELUSIONAL

I don't know how I could be more clear... TCU and Utah are the 2 favorites to win the MWC this year. TCU and Utah would also be the 2 favorites to win the PAC this year. There is no TCU in the PAC, so if Utah was already in the PAC, they would be the favorite this year. It's not delusional. You know what's delusional? Some bitter BYU fan who keeps saying Utah wouldn't and won't contend for a PAC championship, but refuses to list the teams that will- even after being asked to do so repeatedly.

How funny. You sit here and flap the hole under your nose about how the MWC is now an inferior conference, how all of a sudden Utah is some big-time power house, and that you're automatically going to some bigger bowl game. Here's the kicker, you keep talking about what WILL happen -- which means, clearly, that you have no idea what will happen, and that your opinion > science. Let me hit you with some knowledge: Utah lost to BYU last year. I don't care if it was at home, if it was close, if it was a blow out, if it was played naked -- it doesn't matter, you lost. How can you honestly say that you're going to win the PAC and get into some Uber-Bowl when you've proven that you can't even compete at the MWC level?

"LOL TROUT, YOUR SUCH A HOMER! WE HAD A ROOKIE QB AND BARELY LOST, LOL!!11" It doesn't matter. You guys didn't win. You will continue to not win. You will continue to have excuses, just like always -- except now you can't blame the conference for your woes. I can't wait.

BYU barely won a freaking home game. What happened in the previous meeting? Oh yeah, Utah blew them out. Saying Utah can't compete with BYU is a ridiculous lie and you know it. Utah can, and will, blow them out again this year.
And Utah WILL be going to a bigger bowl game. In case you missed it, the Vegas bowl goes to the 5th place PAC team. I think even the most delusional of BYU homers will agree that Utah will do better than 5th place most years.

Except... you'll never find a post from me talking about how supperior BYU is. I understand that BYU isn't some super power house. I understand that we haven't done much of anything since '84. What I AM pointing out is that NEITHER HAS UTAH. Hooray for BCS games! We took third! YAY! You haven't proven jack squat, but if you ask any of the Homersexuals on this board, Utah is the King of the Universe and nobody can beat them. (except BYU)

Utah took second, get it right. And that accomplishment is more than BYU has ever done. yeah, BYU won a controversial championship 100 years ago or whatever, but they didn't beat anybody to do it and played in a crappy bowl game. Utah beat a top 5 team in a BCS bowl game to go undefeated for the second time in 4 years. BYU has never done that.

Oh yeah, and Utah got accepted to be in the PAC 10. They must have proven something for the PAC 10 to accept them. That's another accomplishment that is bigger than anything BYU has ever done.

 

[UGLI baby]

Before The Utes joined The Pac-10 I would have said that nothing would diminish the rivalry.

Now that were in The Pac-10 its obvious that the rivalry will not mean nearly as much to The Utes as it does to the cougs.

The rivalry game will become byu's superbowl every year. What game could possibly be bigger for them than the one against their hated rival from one of the evil BCS conferences?

Utah on the other hand will be battling schools like USC and Oregon with trips to The Rose Bowl on the line. Games against byu will be important but it definetely will not make or break our season like it will for byu.

Its obvious that byu's hate for Utah has already increased with the move to The Pac-12. As time goes by I think byu will grow to resent Utah more and more, and Utah will begin to think of byu as the annoying wacky school down south, instead of a heated rival.