LDS General Conference - Apr 2015

[LogGrad98]

You'd presumably believe in an afterlife, then, but I think my previous statement is still valid: "I can totally see responses like this occurring as people there are being taught the gospel: "Yes, apparently I didn't cease to exist when I died, but that doesn't mean that accepting Jesus is the path to salvation. Why should I believe that?"" Why would you convert to Christianity/Mormonism just because you continue to exist? Maybe you would, maybe you wouldn't.

And, for what it's worth, the way I see it is that to some extent religions are verifiable. You can live the tenets of the religion and see the impact on your life. In the LDS case, you can read the Book of Mormon & Bible, pray, refrain from smoking/drinking/etc., attend church services, and so forth. That's basically how the LDS missionary program is set up--the missionaries teach people these principles and invite them to live accordingly to see how it impacts their lives. My anecdotal experience has been that of the people who do attempt to verify the religion in this manner, a very large percentage (more than 90%) become believers. Granted that's not 100% like you would have in a true scientific experiment, but it's not to be scoffed at.

I agree with you colton, and I don't want to play devil's advocate when it might affect my eternal salvation =), but wouldn't that be true anytime someone undertakes a positive change in their life? From my experience, it was seldom the truly happy and content people that wanted to hear our message as missionaries. We met plenty of them, and the response we often got was "kein bedarf", or no need. If there is a gap to be filled, and someone makes a positive change to fill that gap won't it have the same effect?

I keep going back to the example of my sister-in-law who got a firm answer from prayer, exactly as we describe it, that the LDS church is 100% false, and other people I have known (atheists, agnostics, religious folks) who I have seen make a positive change in their lives and describe those changes all in very similar ways. Maybe it is the making of the change itself that prompts this, and not the vehicle (religion). Eckhart Tolle would probably point out that these vehicles, such as religion, help us to better live in the now rather than dwelling in the past or future, and that ultimately peace comes in the now, no matter what method you use to get there.

 

[babe]

No it does not make sense. If I don't believe in an afterlife and then I suddenly find myself living one that particular belief is going to change pronto.

Not necessarily. . . . you might start saying. . . "so, what next?. . . . how long is this going to last? there still might be some kind of end to this bad dream."

It's our nature to revise our thinking every day according to new information, sometimes whole new vistas of understanding. We do it literally every time we wake up, somehow. But we like to keep a large chunk of stuff the same, too. I think you can sustain any basic world view even if a whole new life opens up for you. You'll always have that sort of choice, that kind of will.

 

[babe]

I hope that a minority apostle is chosen. Add some diversity o the church. Plenty of 70s that are Hispanic for example.

I hope a hobo is chosen, a man off the street, who knows the folks who serve the soup at the homeless shelter. Successful business executives are all the same.

 

[fishonjazz]

I hope a hobo is chosen, a man off the street, who knows the folks who serve the soup at the homeless shelter. Successful business executives are all the same.

The High Sparrow!

 

[LogGrad98]

I hope a hobo is chosen, a man off the street, who knows the folks who serve the soup at the homeless shelter. Successful business executives are all the same.

This is actually a minor pet peeve of mine. Seldom is an ordinary person chosen for any of these roles. A Sister Missionary serving right now in Leipzig is a daughter of a very successful car dealership owner in Utah (not the millers) and her dad and mom are right now mission presidents in the US. They are changing mission presidents here this summer, and rumor has it the guy coming in is another executive. I get the argument that these men are being prepared for these roles, but it is a bit funny that it is always either a successful executive, or a doctor or someone who spent their lives working for the church (where I couldn't even get an interview for a job after college, only to find out the son of the group I was applying for got the job...nepotism is rampant inside the church, but that is another topic). It would be interesting to see someone like my dad get called, who has always lead a good life and has a lot of knowledge and a strong testimony, but who isn't rich and powerful economically or "connected". I would think the church would be the one place it shouldn't be who you know or how much money you have.

 

[Qman]

This is actually a minor pet peeve of mine. Seldom is an ordinary person chosen for any of these roles. A Sister Missionary serving right now in Leipzig is a daughter of a very successful car dealership owner in Utah (not the millers) and her dad and mom are right now mission presidents in the US. They are changing mission presidents here this summer, and rumor has it the guy coming in is another executive. I get the argument that these men are being prepared for these roles, but it is a bit funny that it is always either a successful executive, or a doctor or someone who spent their lives working for the church (where I couldn't even get an interview for a job after college, only to find out the son of the group I was applying for got the job...nepotism is rampant inside the church, but that is another topic). It would be interesting to see someone like my dad get called, who has always lead a good life and has a lot of knowledge and a strong testimony, but who isn't rich and powerful economically or "connected". I would think the church would be the one place it shouldn't be who you know or how much money you have.

Has your dad served as a senior missionary? And I wonder if being better off financially makes it less of burden to be a mission president.

 

[LogGrad98]

Has your dad served as a senior missionary? And I wonder if being better off financially makes it less of burden to be a mission president.

Yeah he did, and a Stake Pres and all that other Jazz. And in no way am I pining for my dad to be GA, that is not the point. It is just an example of other worthy men out, lots of them I am sure, who will apparently never be selected because they haven't hit the monetary threshold. And I am sure that being well off makes it easier. It just is kind of interesting when it is always a rich white guy that gets selected.

And if you think it is necessary since they are all "unpaid" positions, you better think again. For any "life" calling, meaning a calling that is either for their entire life or takes a significant amount of time from their lives, there is a healthy stipend for living expenses. My understanding, direct from the horse's mouth as it were, is that it is more than enough, and provides a much better living than most ordinary members. It is almost a falsehood to say we do not have paid clergy.

 

[colton]

Yeah he did, and a Stake Pres and all that other Jazz. And in no way am I pining for my dad to be GA, that is not the point. It is just an example of other worthy men out, lots of them I am sure, who will apparently never be selected because they haven't hit the monetary threshold. And I am sure that being well off makes it easier. It just is kind of interesting when it is always a rich white guy that gets selected.

For what it's worth, my father served as a mission president and he worked for the U.S. government and/or U.N. for most of his career. He made a good living, but isn't the type of rich businessman that you're describing.

And if you think it is necessary since they are all "unpaid" positions, you better think again. For any "life" calling, meaning a calling that is either for their entire life or takes a significant amount of time from their lives, there is a healthy stipend for living expenses. My understanding, direct from the horse's mouth as it were, is that it is more than enough, and provides a much better living than most ordinary members. It is almost a falsehood to say we do not have paid clergy.

My parents did receive a living allowance so that being a mission president wasn't a financial burden... but my dad did have to retire early from his career. So it's not like there are no financial repercussions.

(Also, I always tell people we don't have a paid clergy "on the local level".)

 

[Elizah Huge]

I think it's cool how there is a twitter account that posts all the best quotes from GC. It's a good way to let the people who follow you get some of the church by just a simple RT.

 

[babe]

Has your dad served as a senior missionary? And I wonder if being better off financially makes it less of burden to be a mission president.

In all fairness, there have been callings into the Quorum of the Twelve from educational professions, from colleges, where it's pretty clear there were considerations other than financial ability. Pres. Monson, as well, never did "succeed" financially in private life. He was a tradesman printer, but was called to be a bishop in his twenties and was promoted exclusively on the basis of his commitment to the Church, primarily being known for his service to people in need.

When I was growing up, it was common knowledge in my family that he knew us and liked us, and had high regard for some of my family, enough that some of his faith promoting talks included stories about my family we knew were true, and when once I walked up to shake his hand and told him who I was, he gave me a big smile. His wife was a relative of my wife, but then so is half the LDS population.

If they called me, some people might claim I'm a millionaire too, and that's why or whatever. The bottom line is the opportunity cost. Every decision you make in life costs you all the other possibilities you might have had. Being called into the LDS leadership costs these "millionaires" many more millions, I'm sure. I don't question the sincerity of any LDS leader I know, and I know quite a few. I do question their ideas some. Hell, I question my own ideas more than the whole lot of them.

 

[Stoked]

On a random note, Pharrell (the singer/producer) recently tweeted a quote and gave credit to Uchtdorf "Sometimes we become so focused on the finish line, that we fail to find joy in the journey"

LL Cool J once quoted Gordon B Hinckley in a tweet "Wittout hard work, nothing grows but weeds."

 

[bigb]

This is actually a minor pet peeve of mine. Seldom is an ordinary person chosen for any of these roles. A Sister Missionary serving right now in Leipzig is a daughter of a very successful car dealership owner in Utah (not the millers) and her dad and mom are right now mission presidents in the US. They are changing mission presidents here this summer, and rumor has it the guy coming in is another executive. I get the argument that these men are being prepared for these roles, but it is a bit funny that it is always either a successful executive, or a doctor or someone who spent their lives working for the church (where I couldn't even get an interview for a job after college, only to find out the son of the group I was applying for got the job...nepotism is rampant inside the church, but that is another topic). It would be interesting to see someone like my dad get called, who has always lead a good life and has a lot of knowledge and a strong testimony, but who isn't rich and powerful economically or "connected". I would think the church would be the one place it shouldn't be who you know or how much money you have.

I served my mission in Honduras. At that time, there were three missions in the country. If I remember correctly, mine was the only mission with a gringo president. The other two were Latinos. I don't know the specifics of them, but I would highly doubt they were "successful business men". I know my president had done okay in life, but I wouldn't have qualified him as "wealthy", unless he was hiding a lot of stuff. He got released while I was still there and he went back to Texas and went back to work.
We have a long time family friend who was president of the Marshall Islands mission. He got released last July. His full time job was with the Civil Service, and he was in the Air Guard as a Lt. Col. He had retired before he was called. He had a good pension from all that, but was certainly not wealthy, or even "well off". The president of that mission travels more than any other Church official, including all the GA's. They literally had to go from one island to Hawaii and then to another island. There was virtually no inter island travel without going to Hawaii. No way in hell that guy, or just about anybody, could afford that.