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Planned Parenthood Selling Baby Organs

I have a solution.

All males are sterilized upon reaching puberty, after having left an ample supply of sperm in a sperm bank. At some point, if he and a female partner decide they want a child, they would file appropriate paperwork to get the women impregnated with his sperm. Then he could not contribute his sperm to an unplanned pregnancy, and a woman couldn't claim otherwise. All pregnancies would be planned and we'd only have to worry about situations where the pregnancy endangers the mother's health.

Problem solved. Let's get to work on that, OK?

(just kidding sort of)
 
I have a solution.

All males are sterilized upon reaching puberty, after having left an ample supply of sperm in a sperm bank. At some point, if he and a female partner decide they want a child, they would file appropriate paperwork to get the women impregnated with his sperm. Then he could not contribute his sperm to an unplanned pregnancy, and a woman couldn't claim otherwise. All pregnancies would be planned and we'd only have to worry about situations where the pregnancy endangers the mother's health.

Problem solved. Let's get to work on that, OK?

(just kidding sort of)

Interesting scenario. Aside from the civil rights issue of forced sterilization I'd worry about the requirements.

Do poor couples get denied because they are poor? Will uneducated families be treated unfairly? And so on...
 
You can reverse all of that. No Dr. apts, no prenatal vitamins, smoke and drink and the baby will more than likely still be born. It could have serious problems but the baby would be born.

As for the mom dying and the baby dying. That depends on how far along they are and how the mom died. 26 weeks is considered viable outside the womb.
Good points
 
But you don't leave it alone. You go to lots of dr appointments, take all kinds of vitamins and crap, eat certain diets sometimes, avoid smoking, drugs, alcohol, etc
And if the mom died, I doubt the baby survives.

Lots of things need to be done to ensure that the fetus continues to develop.
You can't just leave it alone

Humans were born for thousands of years without modern medicine or any medicine at all. Those have nothing to do with the natural process of an embryo developing into a baby. That happens anyway.

Obviously mom dying and such things are outside influences, not leaving it alone.
 
I have a solution.

All males are sterilized upon reaching puberty, after having left an ample supply of sperm in a sperm bank. At some point, if he and a female partner decide they want a child, they would file appropriate paperwork to get the women impregnated with his sperm. Then he could not contribute his sperm to an unplanned pregnancy, and a woman couldn't claim otherwise. All pregnancies would be planned and we'd only have to worry about situations where the pregnancy endangers the mother's health.

Problem solved. Let's get to work on that, OK?

(just kidding sort of)

I would vote for that. Hell ya.

Also not kidding, sort of.

:)
 
Interesting scenario. Aside from the civil rights issue of forced sterilization I'd worry about the requirements.

Do poor couples get denied because they are poor? Will uneducated families be treated unfairly? And so on...

Any couple who wants one can have one. Period. No other requirements than mom proving she is who she says she is and dad doing the same. At least there is a step in between. And they do so with the understanding that only under certain circumstances can they abort the pregnancy.

I like it! I personally would have volunteered for that in a heart beat if it had been available. Worrying about birth control was a major drag.
 
What purpose does it serve to keep it hidden? Are you adopted by chance? Maybe those who were adopted feel it is a good thing to know rather than to find out.

I wasn't talking about the adoption. I was talking about the nearly aborted bit.

Why wouldn't they?

The "you're bio mom was considering an abortion" just seems like extra info that isn't necessary.

So my parents should lie to me? As is natural for a child I had questions and they were honest and rewarded my trust in coming to them.

How is it lying? If biological parents are telling their child about their pregnancy, I don't think that withholding the night they were conceived is lying. So why would withholding a considered abortion be lying?
 
Interesting scenario. Aside from the civil rights issue of forced sterilization I'd worry about the requirements...

but it's ok to ignore the civil rights issues in forced pregnancy?


Please understand, I am NOT pro-abortion. I am pro-choice.
My brother (now deceased) and sister were adopted as babies when I was about 7-10 yrs old, as my mother kept having miscarriages and was not able to carry a pregnancy to term after me.
(and no nasty comments from the peanut gallery please!)

Also, I'm not sure how much any of you really understand about the thought process that goes into deciding to terminate a pregnancy. For most women, it is NOT a casual decision. For many, particularly if it is a first pregnancy, there is a thought that "what if this is my only chance to have a baby?"

And the idea that you're going to allow it for cases of rape/incest is great, but how is that proven? Does the woman have to go to court? Does that seem fair - - first she was forced into a sexual encounter, and now she is forced to go to court to terminate the pregnancy that resulted? And, how do you actually prove that the pregnancy was the result of that particular encounter? Do you understand that forcing the woman to jump through hoops is only going to delay the procedure to the point that it may become even more distasteful to the anti-choice crowd?

For me, one of the major issues here is a woman's right to make a decision without interference from the "state" - if it means destroying a "life" so be it. To me, the rights of the living, breathing woman take precedence over the rights of a 6-8 week old embryo. Again, part of this is because I'm not castigating the woman as a pariah because she made a "mistake" and somehow allowed herself to get pregnant.

Yes, I don't like the idea that there is a very, very small number of women who may use abortion as a method of birth control, but I don't think we should let bad decisions by a very small minority dictate how we approach the issue for everyone else.

Also, while it is wonderful that Stoked's biological mother had a support system that was able to help her see her pregnancy through to a healthy birth, and she knew there was a comfortable and loving family waiting to adopt her baby, many others are not in that situation.

I knew a young woman who was considering abortion (she was about 6 weeks pregnant) and was persuaded by family members to go through with the pregnancy and put the baby up for adoption. Then when the time came, other family members came forward and wanted to be the adoptive family. They gave her all kinds of grief until she acquiesced. And the original (adoptive) family later divorced, had a bitter custody battle involving additional family members - and now she's a wreck, the child (who is about 11 yrs old) is a mess, the whole situation is horrible. In my opinion, it would have been better for everyone if she had terminated the pregnancy at 6 weeks as she originally planned.

I do know another young woman, about the same age, who did go through with her pregnancy and put the baby up for an open adoption through an agency/service. This was about 9-10 years ago. The family is doing well, a few years later they had a natural child (not sure the correct terminology) - my young friend and her family kept in touch through letters with the adoptive family for the first few years after the adoption was finalized. The young woman took a semester off college towards the end of her pregnancy (it was her second year) but went back and finished.

Of course, like Stoked's story, that is another situation where she had GOOD family support.
 
invoking "history" as authoritative is unconvincing. When history is no longer being re-written to satisfy the ever-shifting human ego, or the next wave of propagandists, there will be no more humans.

If only a human embryo had so many chances. . . . .

And, actually, unlike most Christian believers, I consider it probable that God will try again and again to get his people into mortality, so far as there is need, so I don't grieve the babes unborn as much as I grieve the self-assured sophists of "progress" who in fact are going backwards on human values. Little anyone can do about people determined to destroy their own future. Our kids are our future, as every liberal will elsewhere proclaim when necessary to secure unlimited funding for statist propaganda intended to create a feudalist future of unthinking political correctness.

I've not invoked history as 'authoritative' in any sense. I've simply observed that Conservative Christians are consistently on the wrong side of history in the ongoing battle for expanding rights within Western Democratic society. They have consistently opposed every and all (or most) expansion of rights and civil liberties to formerly marginalized groups. And, I consider the freedom of women to make choices about their own body and reproduction absent intrusive state interference to be among the expansion of these rights and liberties.

As for the liberals you condemn and whom you accuse of devaluing the lives of our 'children,' we are going around in circles as to what constitutes life, when it begins, and what, therefore, a child is. As for invoking 'history' as authoritative, frankly, if I were (which I'm not), I'd find it far more authoritative in any case than invoking an invisible sky daddy as the source for all authority.

Finally, for all of you who think liberals are out to destroy the nation's children, chew on this. It is actual empirical evidence supporting access to contraception and Obamacare, both things Conservative Christians hate, are combining (with other factors) to push down the abortion rate. It also suggests that restrictive abortion laws don't have a significant effect on abortion rates, but rather delay the procedure, much more to the point where life may have actually occurred, thus producing yet another outcome CC's claim to abhor.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/feature...ing-because-fewer-women-are-getting-pregnant/

So, before you condemn to hell all us liberals/progressives, consider the possibility, empirically supported, that our policies are doing more to reduce abortions than yours. Now isn't that a kick in the head?
 
but it's ok to ignore the civil rights issues in forced pregnancy?


Please understand, I am NOT pro-abortion. I am pro-choice.
My brother (now deceased) and sister were adopted as babies when I was about 7-10 yrs old, as my mother kept having miscarriages and was not able to carry a pregnancy to term after me.
(and no nasty comments from the peanut gallery please!)

Also, I'm not sure how much any of you really understand about the thought process that goes into deciding to terminate a pregnancy. For most women, it is NOT a casual decision. For many, particularly if it is a first pregnancy, there is a thought that "what if this is my only chance to have a baby?"

And the idea that you're going to allow it for cases of rape/incest is great, but how is that proven? Does the woman have to go to court? Does that seem fair - - first she was forced into a sexual encounter, and now she is forced to go to court to terminate the pregnancy that resulted? And, how do you actually prove that the pregnancy was the result of that particular encounter? Do you understand that forcing the woman to jump through hoops is only going to delay the procedure to the point that it may become even more distasteful to the anti-choice crowd?

For me, one of the major issues here is a woman's right to make a decision without interference from the "state" - if it means destroying a "life" so be it. To me, the rights of the living, breathing woman take precedence over the rights of a 6-8 week old embryo. Again, part of this is because I'm not castigating the woman as a pariah because she made a "mistake" and somehow allowed herself to get pregnant.

Yes, I don't like the idea that there is a very, very small number of women who may use abortion as a method of birth control, but I don't think we should let bad decisions by a very small minority dictate how we approach the issue for everyone else.

Also, while it is wonderful that Stoked's biological mother had a support system that was able to help her see her pregnancy through to a healthy birth, and she knew there was a comfortable and loving family waiting to adopt her baby, many others are not in that situation.

I knew a young woman who was considering abortion (she was about 6 weeks pregnant) and was persuaded by family members to go through with the pregnancy and put the baby up for adoption. Then when the time came, other family members came forward and wanted to be the adoptive family. They gave her all kinds of grief until she acquiesced. And the original (adoptive) family later divorced, had a bitter custody battle involving additional family members - and now she's a wreck, the child (who is about 11 yrs old) is a mess, the whole situation is horrible. In my opinion, it would have been better for everyone if she had terminated the pregnancy at 6 weeks as she originally planned.

I do know another young woman, about the same age, who did go through with her pregnancy and put the baby up for an open adoption through an agency/service. This was about 9-10 years ago. The family is doing well, a few years later they had a natural child (not sure the correct terminology) - my young friend and her family kept in touch through letters with the adoptive family for the first few years after the adoption was finalized. The young woman took a semester off college towards the end of her pregnancy (it was her second year) but went back and finished.

Of course, like Stoked's story, that is another situation where she had GOOD family support.

Who said it was? I'm pro choice even though I don't like it personally.
 
I wasn't talking about the adoption. I was talking about the nearly aborted bit.



The "you're bio mom was considering an abortion" just seems like extra info that isn't necessary.



How is it lying? If biological parents are telling their child about their pregnancy, I don't think that withholding the night they were conceived is lying. So why would withholding a considered abortion be lying?

Oh ok, I thought you meant the adoption part. I was not told the abortion part until I was older and we were actually talking about abortion. Given the facts of when and how I was told I have no problem with it. I wouldn't tell a 10 year old that.
 
Moe is right. If you're anti-abortion, you need to be anti-IVF for the sake of consistency. This is just a logical fact-- I wonder how many fall into the pool of anti-abortion, but pro-IVF.
I guess we all have our own logic, but I see no logic at all in this argument. If you are anti-abortion do you think you must also be ani-cancer removal? Seems to be more logical than the two you paired up. You think if you are against artificially ending life then you must be against artificially creating life?
 
I've not invoked history as 'authoritative' in any sense. I've simply observed that Conservative Christians are consistently on the wrong side of history in the ongoing battle for expanding rights within Western Democratic society. They have consistently opposed every and all (or most) expansion of rights and civil liberties to formerly marginalized groups. And, I consider the freedom of women to make choices about their own body and reproduction absent intrusive state interference to be among the expansion of these rights and liberties.

As for the liberals you condemn and whom you accuse of devaluing the lives of our 'children,' we are going around in circles as to what constitutes life, when it begins, and what, therefore, a child is. As for invoking 'history' as authoritative, frankly, if I were (which I'm not), I'd find it far more authoritative in any case than invoking an invisible sky daddy as the source for all authority.

Finally, for all of you who think liberals are out to destroy the nation's children, chew on this. It is actual empirical evidence supporting access to contraception and Obamacare, both things Conservative Christians hate, are combining (with other factors) to push down the abortion rate. It also suggests that restrictive abortion laws don't have a significant effect on abortion rates, but rather delay the procedure, much more to the point where life may have actually occurred, thus producing yet another outcome CC's claim to abhor.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/feature...ing-because-fewer-women-are-getting-pregnant/

So, before you condemn to hell all us liberals/progressives, consider the possibility, empirically supported, that our policies are doing more to reduce abortions than yours. Now isn't that a kick in the head?

I'd say, rhetorically, you're biased in the extreme. "Conservative Christians"? really? probably a much more prejudiced classification category than any other ever invented by politically-motivated hate mongers of any stripe. Do you include, or exclude, Mormons in this category? Mormons were anti-slavery from the 1830s, and advocated womens' suffrage from the outset. Probably more hate speech per class member across a hundred and eighty years of history than aborigines or any underclass servile category.

Here, I am deliberately provocative, trying to trigger responses. In general I figure we can all benefit from actually thinking. If you just read the slick "progressive" propaganda, you might just believe that is reality.

You apparently don't read me carefully, because if you did you would not assume I've ever condemned anyone "to hell" since I don't even doctrinally believe the place exists, except perhaps as a state of mind. I suppose even if we get drawn into a black hole, what goes in comes out somehow, somewhere, sometime, and even in saying that I wonder what "comes out" could mean, really. Our "Big Bang" in macro-astronomical terms, might look like a black hole to those who are somehow "back there" looking at that singularity in time and space from another perspective.

Don't assume anything about me just to pump your little crusade towards your nirvana. I don't believe in anyone's utopian fantasies, I just don't want to live in a nation taken in by your medicine show. I think things have moved a ways from the past where people "came out" doing abortions under the cover of legal protection, but not because of liberal "enlightenment" but because of experience with the realities of abortions. Lots of women with after-effects medically and psychologically, depression, PTSD-class disorders. The little loving "conservative Christian" groups giving sympathy, forgiveness, the absolution of the atonement of Jesus, and such, has given many such women some solace, and those women, some of them, are the primary movers and shakers today of the anti-abortion movement.

You and Moe are pretty decent people, just a bit behind the times.

On the wrong side of history, dude.
 
I would agree, and I think those that use IVF should have to use all the embryos that are created. Or if they don't want to do that, then adopt. But adoptions cost $30k. Something needs to change there too.
Oh. The IVF argument is because extra embryos are created that are then left to die. I see your logic now. I didn't understand the nature of the procedure before. Disregard my previous comment.
 
Oh. The IVF argument is because extra embryos are created that are then left to die. I see your logic now. I didn't understand the nature of the procedure before. Disregard my previous comment.

Dal, Howard, and now yourself are all wrong. Logical consistency with regard to what? You start out with something idiotic, and you insist the answer should be idiotic as well?

People going into IVF procedures do it because they have to resort to that after every other alternative for having children has failed. They want a child, or two. . . and they know they can't take care of 15 all at once. In the natural course of having children, only about 25% of fertilized ova, or one-celled "human beings" will survive to birth. So, you and the absolute scriptorian idiots are all in the same boat, calling God the historically-biggest Abortionist ever. Ordinary people with common sense don't get hooked on this idiotic "logic". Moe, give it up, you're being too stupid for words.

IVF doctors look at the fertilized ova, and make a selection of those that look "best" in terms of their experience for viability. The doctors know their success rate is less than nature's at that point. They need to transfer something like five to eight ova to the womb at three days' to five days' time to have a reasonable chance for a success of a pregnancy. Most women will take the risk for maybe having two children, but shy away from the possibility of having more. They know they just can't manage it, or they know the expense or possible complications, so they and their doctors try to find a middle ground that just looks reasonable. Sometimes the parents will donate the others to research, or store them for a later attempt to have a child. It's nobody's business at that stage, and a legal definition that would equate a decision at this stage with "abortion" is just as stupid as equating "abortion" with "murder".

So here is a good example of why we humans are just never going to be all that "logical" or "consistent", and why we just need to back away from relegating everything we do into the hands of judges or lawmakers, and why if we can't just tolerate our humanity and limit our reach into other people's business, we're going to be eternally building our own insufferable hell.

I like life, and Life. I'm fer it, folks. I'd encourage anyone to have a kid, and I'd tell anyone who doesn't want one or whatever, to revise the their priorities, but I'm agin the govt. being hijacked by ideologues who wanna make another damn law.
 
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Dal, Howard, and now yourself are all wrong. Logical consistency with regard to what? You start out with something idiotic, and you insist the answer should be idiotic as well?

People going into IVF procedures do it because they have to resort to that after every other alternative for having children has failed. They want a child, or two. . . and they know they can't take care of 15 all at once. In the natural course of having children, only about 25% of fertilized ova, or one-celled "human beings" will survive to birth. So, you and the absolute scriptorian idiots are all in the same boat, calling God the historically-biggest Abortionist ever. Ordinary people with common sense don't get hooked on this idiotic "logic". Moe, give it up, you're being too stupid for words.

IVF doctors look at the fertilized ova, and make a selection of those that look "best" in terms of their experience for viability. Sometimes the parents will donate the others to research, or store them for a later attempt to have a child. It's nobody's business at that stage, and a legal definition that would equate a decision at this stage with "abortion" is just as stupid as equating "abortion" with "murder".

So here is a good example of why we humans are just never going to be all that "logical" or "consistent", and why we just need to back away from relegating everything we do into the hands of judges or lawmakers, and why if we can't just tolerate our humanity and limit our reach into other people's business, we're going to be eternally building our own insufferable hell.

I like life, and Life. I'm fer it, folks. I'd encourage anyone to have a kid, and I'd tell anyone who doesn't want one or whatever, to revise the their priorities, but I'm agin the govt. being hijacked by ideologues who wanna make another damn law.


God has the right to be the biggest abortionist ever-- we as humans don't. This is some Goebbels-level reaching. IVF murders the lives of unique, living offspring. It doesn't matter if they had "a lower chance" of living-- this is an extremely ethically dangerous precedent to set on the viability of embryos. The life is existing, and you as a human (not God) chose to end it. this is murder. Sorry babe.
 
I'd say, rhetorically, you're biased in the extreme. "Conservative Christians"? really? probably a much more prejudiced classification category than any other ever invented by politically-motivated hate mongers of any stripe. Do you include, or exclude, Mormons in this category? Mormons were anti-slavery from the 1830s, and advocated womens' suffrage from the outset. Probably more hate speech per class member across a hundred and eighty years of history than aborigines or any underclass servile category.

Riiight, and let blacks have the priesthood well after the Civil Rights movement.
 
Dal, Howard, and now yourself are all wrong. Logical consistency with regard to what? You start out with something idiotic, and you insist the answer should be idiotic as well?

People going into IVF procedures do it because they have to resort to that after every other alternative for having children has failed. They want a child, or two. . . and they know they can't take care of 15 all at once. In the natural course of having children, only about 25% of fertilized ova, or one-celled "human beings" will survive to birth. So, you and the absolute scriptorian idiots are all in the same boat, calling God the historically-biggest Abortionist ever. Ordinary people with common sense don't get hooked on this idiotic "logic". Moe, give it up, you're being too stupid for words.

IVF doctors look at the fertilized ova, and make a selection of those that look "best" in terms of their experience for viability. Sometimes the parents will donate the others to research, or store them for a later attempt to have a child. It's nobody's business at that stage, and a legal definition that would equate a decision at this stage with "abortion" is just as stupid as equating "abortion" with "murder".

So here is a good example of why we humans are just never going to be all that "logical" or "consistent", and why we just need to back away from relegating everything we do into the hands of judges or lawmakers, and why if we can't just tolerate our humanity and limit our reach into other people's business, we're going to be eternally building our own insufferable hell.

I like life, and Life. I'm fer it, folks. I'd encourage anyone to have a kid, and I'd tell anyone who doesn't want one or whatever, to revise the their priorities, but I'm agin the govt. being hijacked by ideologues who wanna make another damn law.

Oh no, babe called us stupid. How will we go on?
 
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