Holy piss, the Apollo moon missions were fake?!

[babe]

Holy Piss. . . . here's another admission. . . . a current Van Allen engineering challenge. . .

From a contemporary space technology company. . .

Despite admitting that there’s a long way to go before Orion can safely transport humans outside the Van Allen belts, Price is confident that the craft is one that will make it all the way to Mars

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/12/02/orion_test_flight_interview/?page=2

So, it's not just something any thin metal can will handle. . .

makes me wonder. . . . really, how was the Moon orbiter module constructed, and was it tested before the flight?

 

[babe]

Unconvincing explanation

So here it is in a nutshell, pun intended:

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/12/04/nasa-orion-apollo-hoax-va_n_6268704.html

This link includes a commercial video made by the Orion company to impress people like your and me with all their greatness. . . . but they state the difficulty presented by the Van Allen belts in a way that makes it sound like it's still a challenge, a significant engineering challenge.

Then, the ukhuff folks go on with the traditional twaddle about how the Apollo 11 just zoomed right through, giving the astronauts a trivial amount of radiation exposure.

So, then, what's the fuss if it's really no issue at all, we can just design a trajectory that will cross the Van Allen belts in a half hour for the positive, proton-rich zone, and an hour and a half for the negative, or electron-rich zone. Clearly not as significant a challenge as the re-entry heat shield issue. . . .

Somebody show me the dosimeters from this test, please.

 

[babe]

somebody show me where we did a test run for the Apollo capsule with a dosimeter on board to prove it's safe for humans to just "punch through" these belts.

 

[moevillini]

talking to yourself again, eh babe?

 

[addictionary]

talking to yourself again, eh babe?

To us. And I shall reply. It's the 1st thing on this search motor that entered our lives and never left since.

https://www.clavius.org/envrad.html

Conspiracy: The Van Allen belts are full of deadly radiation, and anyone passing through them would be fried.

Needless to say this is a very simplistic statement. Yes, there is deadly radiation in the Van Allen belts, but the nature of that radiation was known to the Apollo engineers and they were able to make suitable preparations. The principle danger of the Van Allen belts is high-energy protons, which are not that difficult to shield against. And the Apollo navigators plotted a course through the thinnest parts of the belts and arranged for the spacecraft to pass through them quickly, limiting the exposure.

babe:

somebody show me where we did a test run for the Apollo capsule with a dosimeter on board to prove it's safe for humans to just "punch through" these belts.

This is not to dispute that passage through the Van Allen belts would be dangerous. But NASA conducted a series of experiments designed to investigate the nature of the Van Allen belts, culminating in the repeated traversal of the Southern Atlantic Magnetic Anomaly (an intense, low-hanging patch of Van Allen belt) by the Gemini 10 astronauts.

 

[babe]

To us. And I shall reply. It's the 1st thing on this search motor that entered our lives and never left since.

https://www.clavius.org/envrad.html

babe:

yah, I've run across some explanations like this, and it does partially address the issue.

factually, a thin metal skin will stop protons effectively, but depending on the density or quantity encountered, that skin will quickly heat up and radiate heat into the capsule. That's the issue. Fried personnel. Time of exposure, and intensity. Metal skin temps sufficient to produce even 150 degrees inside those space suits for thirty minutes will produce fatal heat stroke.

However, I'm looking for the data that we knew the flight path densities and did a run on that track with a test capsule. Just putting astronauts up in another area, the SAMA, still just sounds reckless. NASA's "series of experiments design to investigate the nature of the Van Allen belts" is a data deficient explanation, and therefore not really credible. It's a "because we say so" response to the question

 

[addictionary]

yah, I've run across some explanations like this, and it does partially address the issue.

factually, a thin metal skin will stop protons effectively, but depending on the density or quantity encountered, that skin will quickly heat up and radiate heat into the capsule. That's the issue. Fried personnel. Time of exposure, and intensity. Metal skin temps sufficient to produce even 150 degrees inside those space suits for thirty minutes will produce fatal heat stroke.

However, I'm looking for the data that we knew the flight path densities and did a run on that track with a test capsule. Just putting astronauts up in another area, the SAMA, still just sounds reckless. NASA's "series of experiments design to investigate the nature of the Van Allen belts" is a data deficient explanation, and therefore not really credible. It's a "because we say so" response to the question

That's right not enough evidence but NASA's archive of tests is what you need to access and it is not some info that floats around internet conspiracy theorists forums I figure.

I post therefore I am...

 

[babe]

That's right not enough evidence but NASA's archive of tests is what you need to access and it is not some info that floats around internet conspiracy theorists forums I figure.

I post therefore I am...

has anyone run a FOIA search of that 1960s information base? What were they told? Did they get anything?

Well, I gotta run. I just don't know what I don't know, and my MO is to keep track of the questions until I do.

 

[addictionary]

has anyone run a FOIA search of that 1960s information base? What were they told? Did they get anything?

**** if I know.

I post therefore I am...

 

[TroutBum]

Boston Marathon.

 

[babe]

Boston Marathon.

To date, no one has answered any of the issues raised by the Aussies. No one who has replied with this sort of attitude, apparently, has looked at the mainstream Media footage which clearly shows the benches intact after the explosion, and then about a half an later being smashed and overturned.

Cognitive dissonance is pretty hard to deal with, most people opt out of thinking when it rises to that level of challenge.

So anyway, here's a link to an official discussion of the Van Allen Radiation belts from the most relevant government source. . .

https://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2014/28nov_vanallengap/

.

I'm still looking for actual data on space capsules traversing the VARBs giving time, location, and metal skin temps and interior temps during passage. . . . .
.
.
here's an extended discussion of the controversy, from a conspiracist-debunking point of view:

.
https://www.clavius.org/envrad.html
.
I note the assertion that the Apollo astronauts wore individual dosimeters and regularly radiod the data to mission control.
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But as already recognized in links above, the high-energy protons' effect is primarily heat on the capsule skin, as protons are not able to penetrate metal and other materials, and there is still no report of capsule skin or interior temps transmitted to ground.

studies of recovered capsules could also provide data relative to stress and temps experienced in the mission. Where are these studies and their data and conclusions?

. . .

well, I'll keeping an eye out for data on this, the foremost critical issue of the whole debate.

 

[babe]

So to sum up my review of the "conspiracists" and "deniers" arguments in the webz, I just have to say the arguments on both sides are ignorant. Amazing, since the supposed "science" is well known.

I spent a few years living with the BEIR reports done in the sixties and seventies on the "Biological Effects of Ionizing Radiation" of all kinds. The assertion is that there is no "threshold" where damage begins, that all radiation is "bad". This assertion, long held sacred, is just false, no two ways about it. Low levels of radiation are in some cases actually beneficial, serving to trigger biological responses favorable to the health of living things.

The specifics of the Van Allen Radiation belt are not scientifically reported by official sources. One can only wonder why not. Certainly we have measured the levels of exposure. Early reports were that there is enough alpha particle densities to swamp out electronic measurement devices onboard. It was variously reported that near the belts, cosmic rays were about 30 counts per second. That's pretty steep, considering that ground level detectors get much less, and are still considered, albeit wrongly, "damaging".

Until I find definitive reported measurements of radiation levels encountered in the belts, I bet the metal and better yet the plastic layers in the capsules are adequate protection, and humans can indeed safely traverse the belts in certain places on certain trajectories.l