Looking at the offseason

[jimmy eat jazz]

While I was all for the youth movement and player development, and still am, I am also to the point where I want to make the playoffs; my patience is nearing its end. While I do like Mack, I do not believe he is starting caliber point guard on a competitive playoff team (although if Dallas can make the playoffs with Felton manning the point, perhaps Mack could too). Also, while I am high on the potential of Exum, I have no problem brining him off the bench for a bit IF we can land a top notch (or playoff proven) point guard, a la Conley or Teague. It's time to start winning and positioning ourselves for playoff runs (I want to watch my team in the playoffs), and if that means bringing some of our youth off the bench if favor of veterans until they're ready (this means both Exum and Hood, particularly when Hood goes on one of his shooting droughts, which was a main factor in our end of season collapse) then I'm all for it.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

This thread is completely unreadable.

I'm not sure why everyone is trying to add a starter type wing when we have Hayward and Hood with Alec on the bench. Why in the hell would any of these up and coming wings want to come to Utah when there will be other teams offering starter gigs?

The Jazz aren't going out to sign Conley period! They believe in Exum as do I. When u believe someone is the future, you don't sign someone else to take they're mins, you take the extra time to develop them and show your faith in the kid. Also Conley at this stage in his career isn't signing a two year deal.

Exum proved he could handle a starting role. Telling him he's coming off the bench by signing or trading for a high profile pg is sending the wrong message and possibly throwing away a high profile pick in Exum. Conley and Teague mean playoffs. Exum could be the difference in championship contention. I see him as a future top 3-5 pg, his ceiling is high, and excited to see the pg he will turn into.

 

[Boris]

Conley is 28,so still has some good years in him, especially on a 4 year contract.

He is already in decline. Desperation signing declining players rarely works out well. You are much better off taking a flier on a young cheap contract.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

While I was all for the youth movement and player development, and still am, I am also to the point where I want to make the playoffs; my patience is nearing its end. While I do like Mack, I do not believe he is starting caliber point guard on a competitive playoff team (although if Dallas can make the playoffs with Felton manning the point, perhaps Mack could too). Also, while I am high on the potential of Exum, I have no problem brining him off the bench for a bit IF we can land a top notch (or playoff proven) point guard, a la Conley or Teague. It's time to start winning and positioning ourselves for playoff runs (I want to watch my team in the playoffs), and if that means bringing some of our youth off the bench if favor of veterans until they're ready (this means both Exum and Hood, particularly when Hood goes on one of his shooting droughts, which was a main factor in our end of season collapse) then I'm all for it.

U talk as though we are a long way off from even sniffing the playoffs. We were very close. If not fore the injury bug, we easily make it in as the 5-6th seed.

Also I did not stick with this team through the many years of rebuilding to see this team replace its young players for vets. This team has great chemistry, and doesn't need any major tweaking, only minor ones, or none at all. Must have patience.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

This thread is completely unreadable.

I'm not sure why everyone is trying to add a starter type wing when we have Hayward and Hood with Alec on the bench. Why in the hell would any of these up and coming wings want to come to Utah when there will be other teams offering starter gigs?

The Jazz aren't going out to sign Conley period! They believe in Exum as do I. When u believe someone is the future, you don't sign someone else to take they're mins, you take the extra time to develop them and show your faith in the kid. Also Conley at this stage in his career isn't signing a two year deal.

Exum proved he could handle a starting role. Telling him he's coming off the bench by signing or trading for a high profile pg is sending the wrong message and possibly throwing away a high profile pick in Exum. Conley and Teague mean playoffs. Exum could be the difference in championship contention. I see him as a future top 3-5 pg, his ceiling is high, and excited to see the pg he will turn into.

Exum has proved he's a good defender and that's about it. He's 20... Plenty of 20 year olds come off the bench. Lyles is 20 too and will be coming off the bench... No one is clamor in for us to trade favors now because lyles is the future. Also lyles is more ready than Exum.

Exum was a starter because we had no one else. If Exum has a slow start (which he might coming off surgery) and we struggle to make the playoffs Hayward is gone. We can still believe in Exum while making the team better. We also still control Exum so if we don't want him to go elsewhere he won't.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

U talk as though we are a long way off from even sniffing the playoffs. We were very close. If not fore the injury bug, we easily make it in as the 5-6th seed.

Also I did not stick with this team through the many years of rebuilding to see this team replace its young players for vets. This team has great chemistry, and doesn't need any major tweaking, only minor ones, or none at all. Must have patience.

Acquiring vets does not equal replacing young players. If we signed Conley and Exum comes in and sets the world on fire we can move Conley for draft assets or more young players... I'll bet you are a cakkk baker amirite

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Exum has proved he's a good defender and that's about it. He's 20... Plenty of 20 year olds come off the bench. Lyles is 20 too and will be coming off the bench... No one is clamor in for us to trade favors now because lyles is the future. Also lyles is more ready than Exum.

Exum was a starter because we had no one else. If Exum has a slow start (which he might coming off surgery) and we struggle to make the playoffs Hayward is gone. We can still believe in Exum while making the team better. We also still control Exum so if we don't want him to go elsewhere he won't.

Yeah, because inserting him into the starting lineup a year ago really hurt us. Give me a break, plus he has his national team I hope he plays for this summer, plus if there is rust we have Mack to share the load. Mack was great last year as a starter after a short acclimation process. There is absolutely no need to sign a Conley or trade for Teague.

The more mins Exum gets, the faster his developing will go. It was huge for Trey Lyles this year. He took off and gained more confidence once he was inserted into the starting lineup. Exum needs all the time he can get with the starters. It's invaluable to a young players development. The Jazz can't afford to waste Exum's development, and Mack's talent by bringing in Conley who wouldn't sign here anyway on just a two year deal. Is Lyles at where he is without the opportunity to start and crack the rotation, or is everyone but me still hating on him like u did to start the season? Signing Conley adds years onto Exum's development.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Yeah, because inserting him into the starting lineup a year ago really hurt us. Give me a break, plus he has his national team I hope he plays for this summer, plus if there is rust we have Mack to share the load. Mack was great last year as a starter after a short acclimation process. There is absolutely no need to sign a Conley or trade for Teague.

The more mins Exum gets, the faster his developing will go. It was huge for Trey Lyles this year. He took off and gained more confidence once he was inserted into the starting lineup. Exum needs all the time he can get with the starters. It's invaluable to a young players development. The Jazz can't afford to waste Exum's development, and Mack's talent by bringing in Conley who wouldn't sign here anyway on just a two year deal. Is Lyles at where he is without the opportunity to start and crack the rotation, or is everyone but me still hating on him like u did to start the season? Signing Conley adds years onto Exum's development.

Exum was good as a starter. Hood was a decent starter. If you get better players at those positions or any other you upgrade them. We didn't make the playoffs this year or last year. We aren't in a position to compete at the top. If we can make this roster better do it. We can bring Exum or hood of the bench and they will be fine and our bench will be better. If they prove to be better or we need to get someone more minutes than the starter we can trade someone away for assets. You don't pass up talent if you can get it and if it makes you better.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yeah, because inserting him into the starting lineup a year ago really hurt us. Give me a break, plus he has his national team I hope he plays for this summer, plus if there is rust we have Mack to share the load. Mack was great last year as a starter after a short acclimation process. There is absolutely no need to sign a Conley or trade for Teague.

The more mins Exum gets, the faster his developing will go. It was huge for Trey Lyles this year. He took off and gained more confidence once he was inserted into the starting lineup. Exum needs all the time he can get with the starters. It's invaluable to a young players development. The Jazz can't afford to waste Exum's development, and Mack's talent by bringing in Conley who wouldn't sign here anyway on just a two year deal. Is Lyles at where he is without the opportunity to start and crack the rotation, or is everyone but me still hating on him like u did to start the season? Signing Conley adds years onto Exum's development.

Him in the lineup did hurt us... Especially compared to what Conley would give us with those minutes. Exum can still get 25+ minutes a night with Conley here. So playing 5 or so less minutes a night with a great vet mentor would put exums development back years? Dude please...

Waste Macks talent? Really? He's okay a middle tier backup though... I don't make decisions with him in mind.

We don't need to bring in Conley but if he would sign here we'd be bat**** crazy to say no... We should pursue him hard and pray he comes.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Exum was good as a starter. Hood was a decent starter. If you get better players at those positions or any other you upgrade them. We didn't make the playoffs this year or last year. We aren't in a position to compete at the top. If we can make this roster better do it. We can bring Exum or hood of the bench and they will be fine and our bench will be better. If they prove to be better or we need to get someone more minutes than the starter we can trade someone away for assets. You don't pass up talent if you can get it and if it makes you better.

Him in the lineup did hurt us... Especially compared to what Conley would give us with those minutes. Exum can still get 25+ minutes a night with Conley here. So playing 5 or so less minutes a night with a great vet mentor would put exums development back years? Dude please...

Waste Macks talent? Really? He's okay a middle tier backup though... I don't make decisions with him in mind.

We don't need to bring in Conley but if he would sign here we'd be bat**** crazy to say no... We should pursue him hard and pray he comes.

U are missing my point, but first, if not for the mass injury, or even having Burks not take so long to get back we are a playoff team.

My point is that Exum and Hood will be better then any of these players, and none of these players are good enough to help us contend for a title. I don't want to go back to the DWill Boozer years of being good not great. Exum, has potential to be great, and along with the rest of the core, make this team a contender. I'm not willing to risk the development of Exum, or even Hood to be just good.

 

[b_line]

This thread is completely unreadable.

I'm not sure why everyone is trying to add a starter type wing when we have Hayward and Hood with Alec on the bench. Why in the hell would any of these up and coming wings want to come to Utah when there will be other teams offering starter gigs?

The Jazz aren't going out to sign Conley period! They believe in Exum as do I. When u believe someone is the future, you don't sign someone else to take they're mins, you take the extra time to develop them and show your faith in the kid. Also Conley at this stage in his career isn't signing a two year deal.

Exum proved he could handle a starting role. Telling him he's coming off the bench by signing or trading for a high profile pg is sending the wrong message and possibly throwing away a high profile pick in Exum. Conley and Teague mean playoffs. Exum could be the difference in championship contention. I see him as a future top 3-5 pg, his ceiling is high, and excited to see the pg he will turn into.

The reasoning in saying that Conley might sign a two year deal has nothing to do with Exum. It has to do with the CBA. Conley can gamble on himself and sign a two year deal, then after the two year deal is up, he will be eligible to make 5% more money because he has more years in the league. That is why he would sign a two year deal.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

U are missing my point, but first, if not for the mass injury, or even having Burks not take so long to get back we are a playoff team.

My point is that Exum and Hood will be better then any of these players, and none of these players are good enough to help us contend for a title. I don't want to go back to the DWill Boozer years of being good not great. Exum, has potential to be great, and along with the rest of the core, make this team a contender. I'm not willing to risk the development of Exum, or even Hood to be just good.

Exum might be better than Conley... some day. That day is not next year and probably not two years from now. Hayward and Favors aren't going to wait around forever. Hood is already pretty good so I'm totally fine rolling with him and maybe getting some additional depth at that position behind him.

Don't forget Conley was a high draft pick too.. Exum may never be as good as he is. Comparison of both players per 48 minutes in their rookie years.

Conley 17.3 pts. 7.7 ast. and 4.8 rebs. while shooting 43/33/73 PER 12.58
Exum 10.4 5.2 and 3.5 while shooting 35/31/62 PER 5.7

Conley is no slouch on defense either... may not be transcendent like we hope Exum will be but still solid.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The reasoning in saying that Conley might sign a two year deal has nothing to do with Exum. It has to do with the CBA. Conley can gamble on himself and sign a two year deal, then after the two year deal is up, he will be eligible to make 5% more money because he has more years in the league. That is why he would sign a two year deal.

I highly doubt he does that... at best maybe a 4 year deal with player option on the final year. He will make over $100M on a 4 year deal. He won't gamble over half that to make 10-20M more on a new deal. His last contract was like 5/45 and he'll be 29 when the season starts. I don't see him getting another max or more than 27-28 M per on a new deal. I may be wrong, but he's a knee injury away from losing almost all the backend of that deal if he gambles.

He might do a 1 plus 1 to get in on the $105-108 M cap but the year following that year the cap actually declines and it would be a terrible year to be a free agent.

 

[b_line]

I highly doubt he does that... at best maybe a 4 year deal with player option on the final year. He will make over $100M on a 4 year deal. He won't gamble over half that to make 10-20M more on a new deal. His last contract was like 5/45 and he'll be 29 when the season starts. I don't see him getting another max or more than 27-28 M per on a new deal. I may be wrong, but he's a knee injury away from losing almost all the backend of that deal if he gambles.

He might do a 1 plus 1 to get in on the $105-108 M cap but the year following that year the cap actually declines and it would be a terrible year to be a free agent.

I agree, I was just explaining it to TJF. I think he probably does a one year though, like you said. That would make a lot of sense for him, and is not a huge risk. I could see him taking a max contract though, just for the security. It's not like he is Lebron.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I agree, I was just explaining it to TJF. I think he probably does a one year though, like you said. That would make a lot of sense for him, and is not a huge risk. I could see him taking a max contract though, just for the security. It's not like he is Lebron.

If I was him I'd sign a five year max with Grizz if they offered... it would end up being like $150 M because of the raises he can get by staying put.

 

[b_line]

If I was him I'd sign a five year max with Grizz if they offered... it would end up being like $150 M because of the raises he can get by staying put.

I kind of doubt they will do that though. Maybe, but they seem to have reached the ceiling with their current guys and want to move on.

 

[RandyForRubio]

I like Exum, but what has he done to shown he's a high caliber PG?

Was it his excellent shooting? Perhaps his ability to create offense for others? Was it his ability to get into the lane so well? As hopeful as I am for Exum, he's only good on defense right now. He's a negative on offense. Signing a guy like Conley, who helps us now, AND mentors Exum would be an A+ move. Hell, it's not like they can't play together.

 

[Stoked]

I like Exum, but what has he done to shown he's a high caliber PG?

Was it his excellent shooting? Perhaps his ability to create offense for others? Was it his ability to get into the lane so well? As hopeful as I am for Exum, he's only good on defense right now. He's a negative on offense. Signing a guy like Conley, who helps us now, AND mentors Exum would be an A+ move. Hell, it's not like they can't play together.

Actually he showed that he absolutely could get into the lane at will. He simply didn't try most games. Not to mention his very good D.

Having said that I am fine with going after Conley. Maybe target him and Bazemore?

Most mock drafts have the Jazz sticking at 12 and taking Furkan Korkmaz a SG.

Gobert/Withey/Pleiss
Favors/Lyles
Hayward/Bazemore/Ingles
Hood/Burks/Korkmaz
Conley/Exum/Mack

That is 14 players. Thoughts? Bench is much, much deeper, solid to great D at the rim and point all game. Outside shooting might still be a concern.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I like Exum, but what has he done to shown he's a high caliber PG?

Was it his excellent shooting? Perhaps his ability to create offense for others? Was it his ability to get into the lane so well? As hopeful as I am for Exum, he's only good on defense right now. He's a negative on offense. Signing a guy like Conley, who helps us now, AND mentors Exum would be an A+ move. Hell, it's not like they can't play together.

I don't think Conley comes here but if he would we'd have to do it.

The last point is spot on... If Exum is killing it he can still get 30 minutes a night... 18 or so as a pg and 12 or so on the wing alongside Conley.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Actually he showed that he absolutely could get into the lane at will. He simply didn't try most games. Not to mention his very good D.

Having said that I am fine with going after Conley. Maybe target him and Bazemore?

Most mock drafts have the Jazz sticking at 12 and taking Furkan Korkmaz a SG.

Gobert/Withey/Pleiss
Favors/Lyles
Hayward/Bazemore/Ingles
Hood/Burks/Korkmaz
Conley/Exum/Mack

That is 14 players. Thoughts? Bench is much, much deeper, solid to great D at the rim and point all game. Outside shooting might still be a concern.

We don't have the room or PT for Baze as currently constructed. We need to find the next Baze/Carroll and get them on the cheap.

Exum can get in the paint sometimes, but part of that was opponents knowing he would not hurt us in there. I think he will have success doing this in the future, but even when he got in the lane it was pretty ugly.