The rise of dictators

[addictionary]

I can see where the current admin uses some boogeyman rhetoric so he does employ fear. But his opposition is fighting tooth and nail, he has not consolidated powers.

If you're talking about Trump, I don't think he is practically there yet. But he has the potential. But I definitely don't think USA is the place to become one right now. USA is definitely setting an example for the voice of diversity to the rest of the world. At least comparably more than ideally.

 

[Stoked]

If you're talking about Trump, I don't think he is practically there yet. But he has the potential.

Comparatively speaking it is tame. I don't see much potential there either. I think he has found a system of speech and approach that he thinks works and he will stick with it.

 

[LogGrad98]

Any real attempt by either party to install a dictator would result in widespread violence and possibly civil war. Won't happen because both sides are so vigilant on watching every move the other side makes.

Our checks and balances work very well to stymie this kind of thing. I don't see this really ever happening barring some very extreme circumstances (apocalypse-level **** tbh).

 

[LogGrad98]

Saudi Arabia didn't just become a dictatorship. Neither did Egypt. Or Russia. Or China. All of those have been dictatorships for decades. And the US didn't become a dictatorship because you don't like who got elected.

What a dumpster fire of a thread.

Yeah, agreed. Also I don't know what is meant by the "rise" of dictators currently as mentioned in this thread. There have always been dictators and if you go back a couple of hundred years it could be argued that the major european colonial eras represented monarchies as dictatorships. In terms of major dictatorships (as in large or economically and militarily significant countries) the rate of existing dictatorships is actually pretty low right now globally speaking.

 

[addictionary]

Yeah, agreed. Also I don't know what is meant by the "rise" of dictators currently as mentioned in this thread. There have always been dictators and if you go back a couple of hundred years it could be argued that the major european colonial eras represented monarchies as dictatorships. In terms of major dictatorships (as in large or economically and militarily significant countries) the rate of existing dictatorships is actually pretty low right now globally speaking.

There definitely is a tendency towards it. And towards a new form of conservatism. And it is defined by the new form of communication which is internet and social media. People are so nauseous of all the diversity that hit their understanding of life and values, they grow defensive and as a natural reaction stick to people like Donald Trump who satisfies their most ignorant and unquestioning mindsets against a hard to digest look of diversity.

 

[addictionary]

I think he has found a system of speech and approach that he thinks works and he will stick with it.

Doesn't that define all politicians anyway? Is there a politician out there that actually believes in what they preach?

 

[str8line]

Saudi Arabia didn't just become a dictatorship. Neither did Egypt. Or Russia. Or China. All of those have been dictatorships for decades. And the US didn't become a dictatorship because you don't like who got elected.

What a dumpster fire of a thread.

I used to think you might be cool Siro, but now I realize you're actually a douche.

Anyways...

The dynamics are changing. Jinping is flexing his power as his cult of personality strengthens. Erdogan has stengthened/consolidated power. Putin has Trump turning against his own intelligence community. Duterte is now boasting about murdering someone in his youth for "a look"(at a speech while Trump was visiting). bin Salman is being called the Putin of the Middle East.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/op...an-arabia-vladimir-putin-171113072010861.html

 

[Stoked]

I used to think you might be cool Siro, but now I realize you're actually a douche.

Anyways...

The dynamics are changing. Jinping is flexing his power as his cult of personality strengthens. Erdogan has stengthened/consolidated power. Putin has Trump turning against his own intelligence community. Duterte is now boasting about murdering someone in his youth for "a look"(at a speech while Trump was visiting). bin Salman is being called the Putin of the Middle East.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/op...an-arabia-vladimir-putin-171113072010861.html

But none of that really challenges what he said. You have cases in the Philippines and Turkey I'd say. Should have listed Venezuela as well. The rest have been dictatorship or in the case of the US they are not. But that has all ready been discussed.

 

[Siro]

There definitely is a tendency towards it. And towards a new form of conservatism. And it is defined by the new form of communication which is internet and social media. People are so nauseous of all the diversity that hit their understanding of life and values, they grow defensive and as a natural reaction stick to people like Donald Trump who satisfies their most ignorant and unquestioning mindsets against a hard to digest look of diversity.

There is a stronger trend toward nationalism and anti-establishment (so anti-globalism). It has nothing to do with number of dictatorships.

 

[Siro]

I used to think you might be cool Siro, but now I realize you're actually a douche.

Anyways...

The dynamics are changing. Jinping is flexing his power as his cult of personality strengthens. Erdogan has stengthened/consolidated power. Putin has Trump turning against his own intelligence community. Duterte is now boasting about murdering someone in his youth for "a look"(at a speech while Trump was visiting). bin Salman is being called the Putin of the Middle East.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/op...an-arabia-vladimir-putin-171113072010861.html

Mao is rolling in his grave with this talk about Xi's "cult of personality". Russia has been a totalitarian nightmare since the start of the 20th century. Trump turning on his own intelligence has nothing to do with dictatorships. What else have you heard on the news that fits into this all-encompassing basket? The sex scandals, is that also a sign of dictatorships rising?

 

[Siro]

By the way, the nationalists have always been around. They are louder now, and they have managed to gain some influence in some places.

I want to say something about the progressive outlook on culture, diversity, and immigration. The most common sentiment on immigration that was held by most Americans when I first migrated to the US, was that desirable immigrants are ones who assimilate with local culture and try to blend in. That's how most people everywhere see it. The mainstream in the US has shifted leftward in the last decade, and now assimilation is downplayed in favor of diversity. Consequently, we're seeing a backlash in the West by the numerous people who don't see it that way.

 

[NAOS]

By the way, the nationalists have always been around. They are louder now, and they have managed to gain some influence in some places.

I want to say something about the progressive outlook on culture, diversity, and immigration. The most common sentiment on immigration that was held by most Americans when I first migrated to the US, was that desirable immigrants are ones who assimilate with local culture and try to blend in. That's how most people everywhere see it. The mainstream in the US has shifted leftward in the last decade, and now assimilation is downplayed in favor of diversity. Consequently, we're seeing a backlash in the West by the numerous people who don't see it that way.

BTW, you'd probably enjoy a new(ish) anthropology book called The Mushroom at the End of the World (or something close to that), by Tsing. She makes some interesting immigration points along these lines, plus you get a cool case study of mushroom foraging and trans-Pacific markets for those mushrooms.

 

[Siro]

BTW, you'd probably enjoy a new(ish) anthropology book called The Mushroom at the End of the World (or something close to that), by Tsing. She makes some interesting immigration points along these lines, plus you get a cool case study of mushroom foraging and trans-Pacific markets for those mushrooms.

Just bought it. Thanks!

 

[str8line]

There definitely is a tendency towards it. And towards a new form of conservatism. And it is defined by the new form of communication which is internet and social media. People are so nauseous of all the diversity that hit their understanding of life and values, they grow defensive and as a natural reaction stick to people like Donald Trump who satisfies their most ignorant and unquestioning mindsets against a hard to digest look of diversity.

Kind of like Siro being a douche.

 

[str8line]

There is a stronger trend toward nationalism and anti-establishment (so anti-globalism). It has nothing to do with number of dictatorships.

The rise of... not the rise in.

The dictators are rising. New dictators are consolidating and strengthening their power while Putin has a cheerleader in Trump, making him more powerful. And this thread is not necessarily primarily about Trump. If anything it should be primarily about Jinping, since he's now the most powerful man in the world.

bin Salman in Saudi Arabia falls under the rise of. He is mowing down the oligarchs.

 

[str8line]

By the way, the nationalists have always been around. They are louder now, and they have managed to gain some influence in some places.

I want to say something about the progressive outlook on culture, diversity, and immigration. The most common sentiment on immigration that was held by most Americans when I first migrated to the US, was that desirable immigrants are ones who assimilate with local culture and try to blend in. That's how most people everywhere see it. The mainstream in the US has shifted leftward in the last decade, and now assimilation is downplayed in favor of diversity. Consequently, we're seeing a backlash in the West by the numerous people who don't see it that way.

I think it's more about acceptance than diversity.

 

[Siro]

Kind of like Siro being a douche.

Doesn't seem relevant to what he said. Why drag in innocent bystanders? Fight your own fights.

The rise of... not the rise in.

The dictators are rising. New dictators are consolidating and strengthening their power while Putin has a cheerleader in Trump, making him more powerful. And this thread is not necessarily primarily about Trump. If anything it should be primarily about Jinping, since he's now the most powerful man in the world.

But China has always been authoritarian. Nothing has changed, except for the fact they continue to develop. We have more liberal democracies now than at any time in history. Saudi Arabia? lolz.

Turkey is your only good example of a new dictator. There is reason to be alarmed by the recent political developments, but I am not so sure you have a useful perspective on them, given your contributions so far.

I think it's more about acceptance than diversity.

Call it what you want. I am not defending either position. I am simply describing a shift in outlook in the mainstream media that does not reflect the sentiments of most every day people. Unless those people who valued integration had suddenly been supplanted by poly-culturalists while I wasn't looking.

There is an ideological battle being fought by hundreds of millions of people worldwide with different views. It is bigger than Trump and Putin liking authoritarianism.

 

[Stoked]

There definitely is a tendency towards it. And towards a new form of conservatism. And it is defined by the new form of communication which is internet and social media. People are so nauseous of all the diversity that hit their understanding of life and values, they grow defensive and as a natural reaction stick to people like Donald Trump who satisfies their most ignorant and unquestioning mindsets against a hard to digest look of diversity.

How much is justified if people feel that those coming in are rejecting the culture of those taking them in and supplanting it with their own?

Really just looking for opinions instead of staking that stance for myself.

 

[Siro]

How much is justified if people feel that those coming in are rejecting the culture of those taking them in and supplanting it with their own?

Really just looking for opinions instead of staking that stance for myself.

My cousin, who is a devout Muslim, went on a furious rant the other day over a relative who blasts the Quran in his smoke shop. He saw it as a disrespectful and anti-social behavior, given he's not running a mosque. He will often rant about Muslim traditional dress as well.

That's the funny thing about all of this. Humans are naturally tribal. Most people in societies where liberalism doesn't have as much clout will automatically reject the type of cultural relativism you see in the West. The default sentiment for most people is "when in Rome...".

A more interesting discussion can be had about the subject. For example, when I hung out with Dalamon, he pointed out that those who reject multi-culturalism often aren't shining beacons of liberalism and human rights. They're often racist and sexist, as can be seen on alt-right websites.

Wanted to say more, but I'm already late for work.

 

[str8line]

Doesn't seem relevant to what he said. Why drag in innocent bystanders? Fight your own fights.



But China has always been authoritarian. Nothing has changed, except for the fact they continue to develop. We have more liberal democracies now than at any time in history. Saudi Arabia? lolz.

Turkey is your only good example of a new dictator. There is reason to be alarmed by the recent political developments, but I am not so sure you have a useful perspective on them, given your contributions so far.



Call it what you want. I am not defending either position. I am simply describing a shift in outlook in the mainstream media that does not reflect the sentiments of most every day people. Unless those people who valued integration had suddenly been supplanted by poly-culturalists while I wasn't looking.

There is an ideological battle being fought by hundreds of millions of people worldwide with different views. It is bigger than Trump and Putin liking authoritarianism.

Not trying to bring anyone into anything, what he said could describe your personality.

Xi Jinping has quickly become the most powerful Chinese leader in decades. The rise of...

You can lolz about Saudi Arabia until they decide they'd rather play with Russia and China than us. Don't pretend to know the wholesale machinations of the rise of bin Salman.


"I am simply describing a shift in outlook in the mainstream media that does not reflect the sentiments of most every day people. Unless those people who valued integration had suddenly been supplanted by poly-culturalists while I wasn't looking."

Who are you to categorize the sentiments of every-day people? And yes, while you weren't looking the younger generation(calling them poly-culturists is a stretch) who aren't brainwashed by intolerant idiots recognize that anything but acceptance could veer towards intolerance.