Is Favors in the long-term plans at this point?

[gregbroncs]

When the sample is large enough. And according to you that seems to be 4 games.

The team was winning due to unsustainable hot shooting, easy schedule and amazing play by Burks, DM, Jonas, Favors, etc. The offense clicked against bad defenses. Inserting Rudy into the lineup was a big adjustment for everyone but we have also played harder opponents. It seems we overhyped the team a bit. And now that we struggle against good opponents (4 games, 3 loses) you conclude Rudy makes the Jazz worse?. You may have a point in terms of chemistry between DM and Favors but Rudy is the more impactful (and better) player. Give the team some time to figure things out.

One of those opponents was exactly the same though. I'm not defending his point exactly, But it's become pretty obvious to me that Gobert and Rubio don't fit together at all. Rubio fits with Favors okay and I believe Favors can play with Gobert just fine. But our offense is one of the worst in the league when both Gobert and Rubio are on the floor. I'm not sure it's either of their fault except that neither of them are good offensive players.

 

[latin jazz]

One of those opponents was exactly the same though. I'm not defending his point exactly, But it's become pretty obvious to me that Gobert and Rubio don't fit together at all. Rubio fits with Favors okay and I believe Favors can play with Gobert just fine. But our offense is one of the worst in the league when both Gobert and Rubio are on the floor. I'm not sure it's either of their fault except that neither of them are good offensive players.

I didn't say anything about Rubio but yeah, he is be a bad fit next to Gobert and Favors. The Rubio/Gobert combo is definitely not what I envisioned when we signed him. The injuries to Hood and JJ are not helping either. We could use as much shooting and playmaking as we can next to Ricky

 

[LoPo]

Except most of your trades involve the Jazz getting something worse than nothing.

I fail to see how a late first round pick is worse than nothing. What a dumbass. I hate I resorted to name calling, but what an absolutely ignorant, stupid, baseless comment.

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[Tabasco]

When the sample is large enough. And according to you that seems to be 4 games.

The team was winning due to unsustainable hot shooting, easy schedule and amazing play by Burks, DM, Jonas, Favors, etc. The offense clicked against bad defenses. Inserting Rudy into the lineup was a big adjustment for everyone but we have also played harder opponents. It seems we overhyped the team a bit. And now that we struggle against good opponents (4 games, 3 loses) you conclude Rudy makes the Jazz worse?. You may have a point in terms of chemistry between DM and Favors but Rudy is the more impactful (and better) player. Give the team some time to figure things out.

The sample size is this entire season. Gobert makes the Jazz a worse basketball team overall. His lack of ANY sort of offensive game is killing the Jazz. Add in the fact that even his defense has been crap this year and he's worthless out there. I was especially impressed with the way Steven Adams manhandled him in a game we would have won with Favors on the floor.

Watching the games, you can tell that his teammates don't trust him with the ball. Watch the body language. It's there.

Gobert getting injured this year was both the best and worst thing that could have happened to the Jazz. The best because we got to see how good the jazz can be without a clumsy, lumbering oaf clogging up the lane, and the worst because now that the players have seen and experienced how good they can be, the team chemistry is gone with Gobert back. He needs to go.

 

[fishonjazz]

The sample size is this entire season. Gobert makes the Jazz a worse basketball team overall. His lack of ANY sort of offensive game is killing the Jazz. Add in the fact that even his defense has been crap this year and he's worthless out there. I was especially impressed with the way Steven Adams manhandled him in a game we would have won with Favors on the floor.

Watching the games, you can tell that his teammates don't trust him with the ball. Watch the body language. It's there.

Gobert getting injured this year was both the best and worst thing that could have happened to the Jazz. The best because we got to see how good the jazz can be without a clumsy, lumbering oaf clogging up the lane, and the worst because now that the players have seen and experienced how good they can be, the team chemistry is gone with Gobert back. He needs to go.

Lack of any sort of offensive game? He did have 20 points last night.

People need to try to remember how good we were last year too. And how good gobert was.

 

[fishonjazz]

Also, favors and rudy average a similar amount of ppg but rudy gets those points much more efficiently. (And rebounds much better. And almost won defensive player of the year. And was all nba 2nd team)

Lets not get crazy folks

 

[Ron Mexico]

Lack of any sort of offensive game? He did have 20 points last night.

People need to try to remember how good we were last year too. And how good gobert was.

Favors has definitely been better than Gobert this season. But I do believe Gobert will get back to the level he was at last season or better, which is a better player than Favors. He was a really really good players towards the end of last season.

 

[Tabasco]

Goberts efficiency is being severely overrated with regards to how good he is offensively. Deandre Jordan has better efficiency than Gobert. Is Deandre Jordan a good offensive player? What about Clint Capela? He's up there too. What about the mighty Dewayne Dedmon? I'm sure opposing teams tremble in fear when he has the ball. I mean, after all, he's efficient!

The top 20 players in fg percentage are basically all centers. When 90% of your shots attempts are dunks or putbacks you're going to have a good fg percentage. That doesn't make you an offensive juggernaut.

Let's put it this way, if it's crunch time and you're giving the ball to someone and telling them to go get you a bucket, Rudy is literally the very last player on the team I would want to have the ball.

The very idea that a lot of you think he's a better offensive player than Favors blows my mind. Quite frankly it's not even close.

 

[Chargers Jazz Angels]

I think it is funny the argument gobert vs favors. Gobert is the better player.

The problems is teams will let favors shoot the 3 all he wants. I like that he is hitting some but gobert and favors are just not a good pairing on the court.

Favors got to play with great spacing.

Gobert with Rubio has just been painful to watch. Rubio for some reason can't throw a lob pass. He bounce passes it at Rudy's knees.

I can tell you Rudy is seriously missing Exum's ability to get Rudy the ball at the rim.

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[latin jazz]

The sample size is this entire season. Gobert makes the Jazz a worse basketball team overall. His lack of ANY sort of offensive game is killing the Jazz. Add in the fact that even his defense has been crap this year and he's worthless out there. I was especially impressed with the way Steven Adams manhandled him in a game we would have won with Favors on the floor.

Watching the games, you can tell that his teammates don't trust him with the ball. Watch the body language. It's there.

Gobert getting injured this year was both the best and worst thing that could have happened to the Jazz. The best because we got to see how good the jazz can be without a clumsy, lumbering oaf clogging up the lane, and the worst because now that the players have seen and experienced how good they can be, the team chemistry is gone with Gobert back. He needs to go.

You are off in so many points.

Why are you assessing Rudy's value based on this season? Recency bias? He has only played half of the season and we could tell he is not 100%.

Why not look at what the players have done the last few years?. By now we all have a pretty good idea of what are the strengths/weaknesses of Rudy & Favors. It's mind blowing you call him a "clumsy, lumbering oaf clogging up the lane", zero offensive game-type of player. That's ridiculous.

For his size he is one of the most mobile centers in the league. He is good at finishing with either hand. He puts a lot of pressure at the rim. He is a good passer and sets some of the best screens in the league.

Steven Adam's is one of the worst matchups in the league for Gobert. His strength and size just negates Rudy's. Also, consider it was the first game coming back from an injury for for Rudy. He was rusty and limited physically.

Killing team chemistry on the floor? The last couple of years this has been Gobert's team. The team goes where he goes. He energizes the team with his defense. He seems to be an excellent teammate. I don't know what body language or issues you are pointing out. Maybe you can post some videos to show us players don't trust him anymore.

 

[Jazz4ever]

I' not sure how much you can evaluate any player because Rubio has shared heavy court time with all, obscuring the data. Rubio is not a normal PG, he is a non shooter that distorts the spacing for everything.
According to 82games, Rubio has an on/off of -11.5. Gobert is equally as bad at -13.2. From past seasons we know these two are +/- champions so they are literally oil and water in my book. Who leads the Jazz in on/off? The one player who has not spent a single minute on the court with Rubio, Raul Neto, he is the team leader at +18.9. Coincidence? Doubt it.

I see the value play DL made in acquiring Rubio for basically nothing (cap space), and I was excited at first, but the sooner we can move on from him the better.

 

[LoPo]

This whole Gobert/Favors fight will continue all season. I get why proFavors people want him and vice versa. However, Gobert has the long term deal and Favors is the expiring.

DL, please trade Favors before the fans lose faith in Gobert. Trying to make both of the work while Favors is an expiring is doing more damage than good.

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[stitches]

I'm one of the biggest Favors fans on this site and I've been defending him throughout this whole fiasco with the mishandling of his injury last year, but Gobert is a legit all-NBA level center. Jazz' problems right now are not on Gobert. It's the Rubio-Favors-Gobert combo. And Gobert doesn't seem like himself after the injury.

With all that said, make no mistake about it - Favors is a much better offensive center than Gobert. It's unreal just hot much better Favors is in the smallest of things like... you know... catching the ball when it's not perfectly thrown, passing off the short roll, touch in and around the paint, etc. It makes the offense run much more smoothly IMO. The problem is that Gobert gives us defensive floor that Favors cannot give us. Gobert can make your D elite almost by himself and that's the most important part of the role of a modern-day center.

The context of their contracts doesn't really give you any choice about who you keep. You cannot afford to trade Gobert and then pray you don't lose Favors in the summer, so that's a moot point on that front even if it weren't on the front of who's the better player...

 

[NUMBERICA]

HI. ANYBODY REMEMBER HOW GOBERT HAS BEEN FORCED TO SHARE THE FLOOR WITH A LANE CLOGGER THE ENTIRE SEASON, AND SUPER DERRICK FAVORS WAS NOT?

 

[NUMBERICA]

HI. ANYBODY REMEMBER HOW GOBERT HAS BEEN FORCED TO SHARE THE FLOOR WITH A LANE CLOGGER THE ENTIRE SEASON, AND SUPER DERRICK FAVORS WAS NOT?

ANYBODY REMEMBER THAT THE DERRICK FAVORS THAT ISN'T VERY IMPRESSIVE AT ALL SHARES THE FLOOR WITH ANOTHER LANE CLOGGER?

 

[stitches]

HI. ANYBODY REMEMBER HOW GOBERT HAS BEEN FORCED TO SHARE THE FLOOR WITH A LANE CLOGGER THE ENTIRE SEASON, AND SUPER DERRICK FAVORS WAS NOT?

It's not Favors' fault. They've been sharing the floor for 3 years and they were alright in every single year. It's the addition of Rubio that buried their efficiency.

 

[Jazz4ever]

It's not Favors' fault. They've been sharing the floor for 3 years and they were alright in every single year. It's the addition of Rubio that buried their efficiency.

Correct. Gobert and Rubio have been bad together without Favors, as Quin has staggered Favors and Gobert's minutes. The data is there at 82 games, there are no bright spots with Rubio and our bigs.

 

[radiohegel]

It's not Favors' fault. They've been sharing the floor for 3 years and they were alright in every single year. It's the addition of Rubio that buried their efficiency.

I think the point was less to criticize Favors, and more to suggest that if Favors had been injured instead of Gobert, Rudy would have looked excellent in Favor's absence, as well.

I agree generally with the sentiment, but the nitpicky side of me wants to argue that Rubio has much better chemistry with Derrick, so it probably wouldn't have reflected quite as well. Still, I think it's a valid point, generally speaking.

 

[radiohegel]

Assuming the rumors about the Bucks' interest in Favors are true, I wonder how much --if any-- Justin Zanik could help angling for a good deal. Hadn't really considered that connection until now, but he probably knows the general road map for the Bucks, and more or less what order they value their various assets.

 

[LoPo]

It's not Favors' fault. They've been sharing the floor for 3 years and they were alright in every single year. It's the addition of Rubio that buried their efficiency.

They shared the court for the season but Quin almost refused to play them together last year in the 2nd round. Any person with a general knowledge of basketball knows that Favors and Gobert would hurt more than help in the playoffs. Its a match made in hell for mismatches.

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