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Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (democratic socialist) wins NY primary

All you'd really need to do is arm yourself with talking points on how whites in the large "liberal" states have found ways to segregate their children from blacks in schools and communities, then claim others living in rural America are racist KKK members. Talk to some New Yorkers. Dodging color in their children's schools is their way of life. The ones who move here attempt to continue the same with private school enrollment and neighborhood choice.

You forgot the part about actively opposing charter schools and private school tuition assistance that might actually cause their snowflakes to have some competition for those college admission slots. Nothing more "progressive" than that.
 
I can think of three reasons off the top of my head why black applicants, with equivalent MCAT and GPA scores, would be accepted at a higher rates, that are not race-related.

1) Quality of elementary/secondary school systems. It's much harder to get (for example) a 28 on the MCAT and a 3.5 at (for example) The University of Dayton if you are from the East St. Louis school district than from the Ladue school district. It shows a smarter individual to achieve equivalent results.
2) Economic diversity. Doctors need to interact with people from all classes of life. Having diversity among the student body is a positive.
3) Geographic diversity. The medical conditions you experience in urban, suburban, and rural environments are also vastly different, and upon completing their residency doctors will often go to environments similar to where they were raised.

Feel free to offer three similar reasons why white people would be accepted at higher rates.

If you can't offer three similar reasons for white people, perhaps that might be a clue as to why "it would be clear to [me] that racial discrimination is the only reasonable explanation for the differences".
White people are not accepted at higher rates and I never said they should be. I'm not going to waste my time trying to support random arguments that you assign to me. Progressives wave the banner of equity and fairness, yet they are completely okay with and willing to make excuses for anything that is biased (as this medical school example clearly is) in the direction they think it ought to be. They would be going mental if this data was skewed, even a little bit, in the opposite direction.
 
He was not a hero "somehow". He was a hero because he became wealthy owning slaves, because he fought to preserve slavery, because he murdered black soldiers that had already surrendered, because he terrorized black families after they were legally freed. The part he spoke out in favor of black advancement is curiously absent in his monuments.



It's so odd that someone who owned slaves, fought to preserve slavery, murdered black soldiers after they surrendered, and joined the KKK is thought of as racist. It must be historical revisionism; there can be no other explanation.



Most of those people were dead before I was born, I have never met the one who was not. How can I part company of people I have never met?

When have I ever said "the ends justify the means"? If anything, I emphasize the means over the ends.



I agree there is no difference there.



I bet you think you have a point. What's your evidence?



What's the conflict?



It's up to you to provide evidence that they did.

I'll have to respond piecemeal. Nothing in the biography I read related anything about the stuff you cite on NBF. Nobody today is citing NBF's example or writing or philosophy as being politically relevant today, while the philosophers and promoters of progressive socialism get a lot of play.

To put it succinctly, purveryors of todays progressive socialism, imo, are equivalent to advocates for universal slavery of the common folk of all races.

<my points in discussing their teachings in any quotes I would advance would go to that point, and to the point that theyh are universally disingenuous and dishonest.

The teachings of Christ, on the other hand, have to be ignored by "Christians" wishing to promote state power or justify political disenfranchisement of anyone of any race. Not to say there have not been plenty of advocates of repression willing to do so,.…;..
 
White people are not accepted at higher rates and I never said they should be. I'm not going to waste my time trying to support random arguments that you assign to me.

The point was that you couldn't find such criteria.

Progressives wave the banner of equity and fairness, yet they are completely okay with and willing to make excuses for anything that is biased (as this medical school example clearly is) in the direction they think it ought to be. They would be going mental if this data was skewed, even a little bit, in the opposite direction.

Harvard has similar disparities in it's undergraduate admissions process, and there was just a NYTimes article about the details. It seems likely that admissions to medical schools are similarly complicated. Your presentation of 'it's all about race' doesn't really hold up.

Again, there are reasons the data should be skewed in favor of Hispanics/blacks that have nothing to do with race, but few such reasons for white people.
 
He was not a hero "somehow". He was a hero because he became wealthy owning slaves, because he fought to preserve slavery, because he murdered black soldiers that had already surrendered, because he terrorized black families after they were legally freed. The part he spoke out in favor of black advancement is curiously absent in his monuments.



It's so odd that someone who owned slaves, fought to preserve slavery, murdered black soldiers after they surrendered, and joined the KKK is thought of as racist. It must be historical revisionism; there can be no other explanation.



Most of those people were dead before I was born, I have never met the one who was not. How can I part company of people I have never met?

When have I ever said "the ends justify the means"? If anything, I emphasize the means over the ends.



I agree there is no difference there.



I bet you think you have a point. What's your evidence?



What's the conflict?



It's up to you to provide evidence that they did.

So I read a bit about NBF, OB.

https://www.battlefields.org/learn/biographies/nathan-bedford-forrest

Of course confederates had to love Forrest because he was a legendary military strategist who drew comments from his enemies that he must be stopped if it bankrupted the Federal treasury. Nobody stopped him. Yes, he was the first Grand Wizard of the KKK, until he ordered the outfit disbanded in 1869. Yes, his troops savagely killed black Union soldiers in a blind war-crime rage. But some dispute even that. I dunno, I wasn't there. Sounds horribly human, actually.... like some other things..... Donner cannibalism, Mormons massaquering emigrants..... maybe there's some details about it all that could raise more questions. But Hell, who cares about the actual facts when you've got such an effective claim against somebody. Even someone of no relevance except historical or legendary values.

Still a legend as an American of unusual talent, beloved of his troops and many confederates.

He made his living before the war doing slave trade business, cotton deals and real estate. For all I know, he would have been the last man on earth to consider it anything but business, and nobody else's business, under the law of his time. I don't think I would have been very good at selling slaves, just don't have the mind for business like that. I will have to research further to see what he thought of blacks, actually, beyond being marketable talent..... The one reference to his "racist" ideas I've seen so far was a retort attempting to dismiss his soldiers' ideas about States' Rights being the reason for the war.....and reflected his own viewpoint about the legality of slavery. It was his business, some say. "What are we fighting for if it's not to keep slavery?"

I didn't see anything about his particular beliefs about the Blacks being inferior or cursed to be slaves. Many who fought as confederates did not focus on race or slavery, but States' Rights. As a matter of fact, the Civil War did transform the meaning of being a State in the US.

Likewise, Lincoln did not make his emancipation proclamation effective in those slave states which did not join the Confederacy. Yes, those states did end their slavery after the war. Politicians in those states helped pass the Federal laws and secure the relevant amendment to the US Constitution.

Probably the reason why the KKK didn't just die with Forrest's order would involve several later events, including the harshness of Carpetbag governors, essentially making the confederate states "occupied states". It was in that later time that the NRA was established specifically intending to arm Blacks so they could defend their own lives, or attempt to do so in the face of a mob.

But I think by far the most important factor for the rebirth of the KKK was Lord Cecil Rhodes and his ideas about preserving white power in a world largely non-white, through your beloved progressive socialism movement which has run for over a hundred years on the principle of elitist rule worldwide.
 
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Interesting article on a book (Twilight of the Elites) that argues that a true meritocracy is a myth.

"As America becomes more unequal, it’s ever harder to claim that it is a meritocratic country. It still looks like one to the people at the top, who continue to prosper. However, their view of the world is increasingly at odds with the view of people below, who like the idea of equal opportunity but don’t believe it is working.”

https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2016/10/13/13259860/twilight-elites-trump-meritocracy

Actually, I don't care..... and I think most Americans don't care, no matter what class or race or whatever label you could slice them as..... whether people with lots of money can give their kids a hand up in life. What does matter is if the system, the institutions, give us all some kind of a chance to improve our lives and the lives of our children.

What outrages most commoners, ordinary folk, is preferential treatment that is so systemic that there is no way to succeed.

And that is what modern elitist rule/fascist rule specifically enshrines as "The Way Things Are", as in that is what makes dynasties of the Clintons, Bushes.... and here in Utah a Mitt.

Name one elected official in the UN I could vote for or against.
 
He was not a hero "somehow". He was a hero because he became wealthy owning slaves, because he fought to preserve slavery, because he murdered black soldiers that had already surrendered, because he terrorized black families after they were legally freed. The part he spoke out in favor of black advancement is curiously absent in his monuments.



It's so odd that someone who owned slaves, fought to preserve slavery, murdered black soldiers after they surrendered, and joined the KKK is thought of as racist. It must be historical revisionism; there can be no other explanation.



Most of those people were dead before I was born, I have never met the one who was not. How can I part company of people I have never met?

When have I ever said "the ends justify the means"? If anything, I emphasize the means over the ends.



I agree there is no difference there.



I bet you think you have a point. What's your evidence?



What's the conflict?



It's up to you to provide evidence that they did.

So, still grinding my axe for OB..... lol....

I think..... I hope….. you might already be aware of this item on NBF. I wasn't sure.... your reference to the part where he spoke in favor of black advancement could have been a snide sneering bit of jaundiced humor at my ignorance, as you could view it...…

Well, it looks like NBF was always an unusual and remarkable man. After ordering the KKK shutdown, a few years before his death, he was invited by a black group to speak, and he spoke well.

I'd advance this speech as a point in favor what Christianity can do for a cretin, a sinner..... as we humans generally are in reality,..... I couldn't have written a better speech myself.

http://the-american-catholic.com/2010/08/06/nathan-bedford-forrest-and-racial-reconciliation/
 
But Hell, who cares about the actual facts when you've got such an effective claim against somebody. Even someone of no relevance except historical or legendary values.

Why create a monument to someone of "no relevance except historical or legendary values", unless the point is to support those values?

The one reference to his "racist" ideas I've seen so far was a retort attempting to dismiss his soldiers' ideas about States' Rights being the reason for the war.....and reflected his own viewpoint about the legality of slavery. It was his business, some say. "What are we fighting for if it's not to keep slavery?"

That was realism as well as racism.

Many who fought as confederates did not focus on race or slavery, but States' Rights. As a matter of fact, the Civil War did transform the meaning of being a State in the US.

Pure historical revisionism. I have the declarations made by four of the Confederate states (I have looked for, and not found, declarations for the other seven). All four listed slavery, interference with slavery, and refusal to respect the Fugitive Slave Act as primary causes for the war.

It was in that later time that the NRA was established specifically intending to arm Blacks so they could defend their own lives, or attempt to do so in the face of a mob.

I was unaware that New York had such a problem with its former slaves. The NRA does not agree with you on its founding. Stop listing to the lies of David Barton.

Dismayed by the lack of marksmanship shown by their troops, Union veterans Col. William C. Church and Gen. George Wingate formed the National Rifle Association in 1871. The primary goal of the association would be to "promote and encourage rifle shooting on a scientific basis," according to a magazine editorial written by Church.

After being granted a charter by the state of New York on November 17, 1871, the NRA was founded. Civil War Gen. Ambrose Burnside, who was also the former governor of Rhode Island and a U.S. senator, became the fledgling NRA's first president.


But I think by far the most important factor for the rebirth of the KKK was Lord Cecil Rhodes and his ideas about preserving white power in a world largely non-white, through your beloved progressive socialism movement which has run for over a hundred years on the principle of elitist rule worldwide.

Which US states did Cecil Rhodes visit in this time frame? Are you even aware that "progressive socialism movement which has run for over a hundred years on the principle of elitist rule" is an extended oxymoron?

I think..... I hope….. you might already be aware of this item on NBF. I wasn't sure.... your reference to the part where he spoke in favor of black advancement could have been a snide sneering bit of jaundiced humor at my ignorance, as you could view it...…

It was snide and sneering, but not at you. Probably the greatest thing Forrest did was make that speech and kiss that woman, renouncing everything he had previously fought for. I was sneering at the people who memorialized Forrest's actions to defend slavery, overlooked his later repentance, and claim they are trying to preserve culture and history.

I'd advance this speech as a point in favor what Christianity can do for a cretin, a sinner..... as we humans generally are in reality,..... I couldn't have written a better speech myself.

It's a shame Christianity couldn't have done this for Forrest before became a slaver, murdered surrendered troops, etc. It's almost as if Christianity fits as well with evil people as with the well-intentioned.
 
Probably just babe and One Brow. They are both show-offy jackasses.

conspicuous addicts to intellectualism are not show-offy jackasses. Show-offy jackasses is street lingo unfit for the online high-brow society of lazy basement dwellers with compellingly empty computer screens.
 
Even I sometimes wish OB would stick to one point per post.....Too hard to adequately respond to ten.
 
So anyway, in my own mind, I am attempting to convert OB to a higher moral principle, and I think he is susceptible.

Democratic socialism a la Ocasio-Cortez is historically impossible without first understanding the Christian culture that birthed the notion. In some respects, the attempt to overthrow societal religions embraced as "democratic socialism" is but an echo of Judaism's or Israelite nationalism as coalesced under King Solomon. The effort to destroy independent outposts of Israelite religion and culture, and bring it all under Jerusalem ended up destroying the nation of Israel...in biblical times.

Judean depotism caused the revolt of the ten tribes, leaving the nation weakened and ripe for plunder.

The attempt to root "God" out of the national conscience or moral fabric is flawed.... it is itself a kind of institutionalization of state-sanctioned beliefs. Outright denying God, and directly substituting authoritarianism in its place.

The Judeo-Christian tradition has always carried some kind of racism, as has every other nationalist or statist society. The Pharoahs made slaves of the Israelites, and were surely not the first to sanction slavery or racism. So we all have floated through history with this kind of thinking at play in our hearts and minds, black and white and every tribe alike.

OB's obsession with perfecting the human soul and conscience on rational principles is doomed, unless there is some kind of power of "salvation" as hopefully ascribed sometimes to Christianity. But I say we are what we are, and we need no authority of any kind intellectual or governmental putting a hand into our hearts to steer us right. It is an individual choice, an individual decision how we will choose to think, how we will treat others. It is the essence of liberty to hold that responsibility personally.

In large measure, the present-world virtue of Christian teachings is the rebellion Christ was to an established state power, an established church and an authoritarian State. Jesus taught us to be responsible for our own actions and decisions.

teaching blacks or anyone else "victimhood" is crippling to those who believe they are.

Having a government with no power to establish religion or any other state-sanctioned belief is necessary to having equal protection under the law, equality, or equity.

Democratic socialism is not that kind of government. It will always be or become statist, authoritarian, and repressive.
 
The 'Israelites' were never slaves in Egypt. It's just a fictional story from a fictional book.
 
Why create a monument to someone of "no relevance except historical or legendary values", unless the point is to support those values?



That was realism as well as racism.



Pure historical revisionism. I have the declarations made by four of the Confederate states (I have looked for, and not found, declarations for the other seven). All four listed slavery, interference with slavery, and refusal to respect the Fugitive Slave Act as primary causes for the war.



I was unaware that New York had such a problem with its former slaves. The NRA does not agree with you on its founding. Stop listing to the lies of David Barton.

Dismayed by the lack of marksmanship shown by their troops, Union veterans Col. William C. Church and Gen. George Wingate formed the National Rifle Association in 1871. The primary goal of the association would be to "promote and encourage rifle shooting on a scientific basis," according to a magazine editorial written by Church.

After being granted a charter by the state of New York on November 17, 1871, the NRA was founded. Civil War Gen. Ambrose Burnside, who was also the former governor of Rhode Island and a U.S. senator, became the fledgling NRA's first president.




Which US states did Cecil Rhodes visit in this time frame? Are you even aware that "progressive socialism movement which has run for over a hundred years on the principle of elitist rule" is an extended oxymoron?



It was snide and sneering, but not at you. Probably the greatest thing Forrest did was make that speech and kiss that woman, renouncing everything he had previously fought for. I was sneering at the people who memorialized Forrest's actions to defend slavery, overlooked his later repentance, and claim they are trying to preserve culture and history.



It's a shame Christianity couldn't have done this for Forrest before became a slaver, murdered surrendered troops, etc. It's almost as if Christianity fits as well with evil people as with the well-intentioned.

My wife likes to drive around the country, and specifically looks for monuments of any kind of historical note.

We have monuments to all kinds of people.....

destroying monuments is like burning books, OB. It is authoritarian fascism like Hitler. I don't care whether the monuments are about good people or evil people. We need to remember things, learn from them.

A monument is not necessarily a state sanctioning anyone or anything. Maybe it could be, but history does not have to do that. At any rate, if we have no record of the past, and no deep-based understanding of what our past has been, we are doomed to our present evils, with no means of making any kind of improvement.

This is America. Everyone gets to make monuments.
 
The 'Israelites' were never slaves in Egypt. It's just a fictional story from a fictional book.

anthropologists have plenty of evidence of the Israelites in Egypt, and of the migration to Israel, and the displacement of the peoples there. A lot of legend in the Bible. A culture with an establishment of a false racial memory would not be unique. I expect some intellectuals five thousand years down the road from here will be saying American slavery never happened, and that there was no "Constitution" that ever produced a prospering people or a stable government.

Just a fictional story. Sure.
 
Even I sometimes wish OB would stick to one point per post.....Too hard to adequately respond to ten.

I will if you will. If I am responding to 10+ points, it's unsurprising I would respond with 10. Perhaps you think breaking up the quotes is confusing, but I find it to be even more confusing when I put all of those points into a single area, referring to ten different sections of the quoted text.

I'm not going to create 10 different posts for 10 different points. That seems rude.
 
anthropologists have plenty of evidence of the Israelites in Egypt, and of the migration to Israel, and the displacement of the peoples there. A lot of legend in the Bible. A culture with an establishment of a false racial memory would not be unique. I expect some intellectuals five thousand years down the road from here will be saying American slavery never happened, and that there was no "Constitution" that ever produced a prospering people or a stable government.

Just a fictional story. Sure.

Anthropologists, including Jewish ones, consider the story to be fictional. The Hebrews are native to Palestine. Shouldn't use fictional stories as historical examples.
 
The effort to destroy independent outposts of Israelite religion and culture, and bring it all under Jerusalem ended up destroying the nation of Israel...in biblical times.

In the Bible, the nation of Israel reached its greatest power under the united monarchy. Prior to that, you saw a great deal of external and internal war.

OB's obsession with perfecting the human soul and conscience on rational principles is doomed, ...

I'm only trying to change culture, not souls nor conscience. Culture changes all the time.

teaching blacks or anyone else "victimhood" is crippling to those who believe they are.

Denying an existing 'victimhood' is even more crippling.

Democratic socialism is compatible with as state religion, and without a state religion.
 
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