Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (democratic socialist) wins NY primary

[Stoked]

One of the big reasons why doctors treat poor and marginalized people like **** is because they most frequently descend from wealth and privilege theswmlves.

Why? In systems where you need money to pay for tuition, and aren’t stipended to take on opportunities and volunteering that wealthier kids can take (not to mention the social and cultural capital needed for the application process), only wealthy kids generally make it through. So you’re not rewarding the “hard working”— you’re rewarding those who got the biggest head start. Meritocracy in capitalism is a total ****ing sham.


Source: I’m a medical student

So question.

Given the previous chart and acceptance %s based on ethnicity and test scores and your quoted reply.

Is it reasonable to assume that this means that the ones truly shafted in this specific scenario are the non rich whites?

 

[One Brow]

It's obvious that you have an agenda and are not interested in data that doesn't support it. I am not leaping to some unreasonable conclusion here. If the column labeled black in that data was instead labeled white you would be having a hissy fit because it would be clear to you that racial discrimination is the only reasonable explanation for the differences.

I can think of three reasons off the top of my head why black applicants, with equivalent MCAT and GPA scores, would be accepted at a higher rates, that are not race-related.

1) Quality of elementary/secondary school systems. It's much harder to get (for example) a 28 on the MCAT and a 3.5 at (for example) The University of Dayton if you are from the East St. Louis school district than from the Ladue school district. It shows a smarter individual to achieve equivalent results.
2) Economic diversity. Doctors need to interact with people from all classes of life. Having diversity among the student body is a positive.
3) Geographic diversity. The medical conditions you experience in urban, suburban, and rural environments are also vastly different, and upon completing their residency doctors will often go to environments similar to where they were raised.

Feel free to offer three similar reasons why white people would be accepted at higher rates.

If you can't offer three similar reasons for white people, perhaps that might be a clue as to why "it would be clear to [me] that racial discrimination is the only reasonable explanation for the differences".

 

[One Brow]

... before California SC and other states' ruled against these practices.

That ruling was in 1995? This data was from 2008-2010.

This isnt exactly some well kept secret or mysterious phenomenon that has other embedded reasons.

Neither is Reconstruction. Relevance is a different issue.

Shame on you for blatantly turning a blind eye to racial discrimination when it goes against your agenda.

Please describe my agenda in this case.

BTW, for those who care, this discrimination has also been shown to accept blacks from families making over $100,000 at the expense of more qualified whites from families living under the poverty line. If OB truly cared about equal opportunity then he'd be the first voice speaking out for the underpriveledged here.

May I have the source for this argument, please?

 

[Archie Moses]

 

[framer]

All you'd really need to do is arm yourself with talking points on how whites in the large "liberal" states have found ways to segregate their children from blacks in schools and communities, then claim others living in rural America are racist KKK members. Talk to some New Yorkers. Dodging color in their children's schools is their way of life. The ones who move here attempt to continue the same with private school enrollment and neighborhood choice.

You forgot the part about actively opposing charter schools and private school tuition assistance that might actually cause their snowflakes to have some competition for those college admission slots. Nothing more "progressive" than that.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

I can think of three reasons off the top of my head why black applicants, with equivalent MCAT and GPA scores, would be accepted at a higher rates, that are not race-related.

1) Quality of elementary/secondary school systems. It's much harder to get (for example) a 28 on the MCAT and a 3.5 at (for example) The University of Dayton if you are from the East St. Louis school district than from the Ladue school district. It shows a smarter individual to achieve equivalent results.
2) Economic diversity. Doctors need to interact with people from all classes of life. Having diversity among the student body is a positive.
3) Geographic diversity. The medical conditions you experience in urban, suburban, and rural environments are also vastly different, and upon completing their residency doctors will often go to environments similar to where they were raised.

Feel free to offer three similar reasons why white people would be accepted at higher rates.

If you can't offer three similar reasons for white people, perhaps that might be a clue as to why "it would be clear to [me] that racial discrimination is the only reasonable explanation for the differences".

White people are not accepted at higher rates and I never said they should be. I'm not going to waste my time trying to support random arguments that you assign to me. Progressives wave the banner of equity and fairness, yet they are completely okay with and willing to make excuses for anything that is biased (as this medical school example clearly is) in the direction they think it ought to be. They would be going mental if this data was skewed, even a little bit, in the opposite direction.

 

[babe]

He was not a hero "somehow". He was a hero because he became wealthy owning slaves, because he fought to preserve slavery, because he murdered black soldiers that had already surrendered, because he terrorized black families after they were legally freed. The part he spoke out in favor of black advancement is curiously absent in his monuments.



It's so odd that someone who owned slaves, fought to preserve slavery, murdered black soldiers after they surrendered, and joined the KKK is thought of as racist. It must be historical revisionism; there can be no other explanation.



Most of those people were dead before I was born, I have never met the one who was not. How can I part company of people I have never met?

When have I ever said "the ends justify the means"? If anything, I emphasize the means over the ends.



I agree there is no difference there.



I bet you think you have a point. What's your evidence?



What's the conflict?



It's up to you to provide evidence that they did.

I'll have to respond piecemeal. Nothing in the biography I read related anything about the stuff you cite on NBF. Nobody today is citing NBF's example or writing or philosophy as being politically relevant today, while the philosophers and promoters of progressive socialism get a lot of play.

To put it succinctly, purveryors of todays progressive socialism, imo, are equivalent to advocates for universal slavery of the common folk of all races.

<my points in discussing their teachings in any quotes I would advance would go to that point, and to the point that theyh are universally disingenuous and dishonest.

The teachings of Christ, on the other hand, have to be ignored by "Christians" wishing to promote state power or justify political disenfranchisement of anyone of any race. Not to say there have not been plenty of advocates of repression willing to do so,.…;..

 

[One Brow]

White people are not accepted at higher rates and I never said they should be. I'm not going to waste my time trying to support random arguments that you assign to me.

The point was that you couldn't find such criteria.

Progressives wave the banner of equity and fairness, yet they are completely okay with and willing to make excuses for anything that is biased (as this medical school example clearly is) in the direction they think it ought to be. They would be going mental if this data was skewed, even a little bit, in the opposite direction.

Harvard has similar disparities in it's undergraduate admissions process, and there was just a NYTimes article about the details. It seems likely that admissions to medical schools are similarly complicated. Your presentation of 'it's all about race' doesn't really hold up.

Again, there are reasons the data should be skewed in favor of Hispanics/blacks that have nothing to do with race, but few such reasons for white people.

 

[babe]

He was not a hero "somehow". He was a hero because he became wealthy owning slaves, because he fought to preserve slavery, because he murdered black soldiers that had already surrendered, because he terrorized black families after they were legally freed. The part he spoke out in favor of black advancement is curiously absent in his monuments.



It's so odd that someone who owned slaves, fought to preserve slavery, murdered black soldiers after they surrendered, and joined the KKK is thought of as racist. It must be historical revisionism; there can be no other explanation.



Most of those people were dead before I was born, I have never met the one who was not. How can I part company of people I have never met?

When have I ever said "the ends justify the means"? If anything, I emphasize the means over the ends.



I agree there is no difference there.



I bet you think you have a point. What's your evidence?



What's the conflict?



It's up to you to provide evidence that they did.

So I read a bit about NBF, OB.

https://www.battlefields.org/learn/biographies/nathan-bedford-forrest

Of course confederates had to love Forrest because he was a legendary military strategist who drew comments from his enemies that he must be stopped if it bankrupted the Federal treasury. Nobody stopped him. Yes, he was the first Grand Wizard of the KKK, until he ordered the outfit disbanded in 1869. Yes, his troops savagely killed black Union soldiers in a blind war-crime rage. But some dispute even that. I dunno, I wasn't there. Sounds horribly human, actually.... like some other things..... Donner cannibalism, Mormons massaquering emigrants..... maybe there's some details about it all that could raise more questions. But Hell, who cares about the actual facts when you've got such an effective claim against somebody. Even someone of no relevance except historical or legendary values.

Still a legend as an American of unusual talent, beloved of his troops and many confederates.

He made his living before the war doing slave trade business, cotton deals and real estate. For all I know, he would have been the last man on earth to consider it anything but business, and nobody else's business, under the law of his time. I don't think I would have been very good at selling slaves, just don't have the mind for business like that. I will have to research further to see what he thought of blacks, actually, beyond being marketable talent..... The one reference to his "racist" ideas I've seen so far was a retort attempting to dismiss his soldiers' ideas about States' Rights being the reason for the war.....and reflected his own viewpoint about the legality of slavery. It was his business, some say. "What are we fighting for if it's not to keep slavery?"

I didn't see anything about his particular beliefs about the Blacks being inferior or cursed to be slaves. Many who fought as confederates did not focus on race or slavery, but States' Rights. As a matter of fact, the Civil War did transform the meaning of being a State in the US.

Likewise, Lincoln did not make his emancipation proclamation effective in those slave states which did not join the Confederacy. Yes, those states did end their slavery after the war. Politicians in those states helped pass the Federal laws and secure the relevant amendment to the US Constitution.

Probably the reason why the KKK didn't just die with Forrest's order would involve several later events, including the harshness of Carpetbag governors, essentially making the confederate states "occupied states". It was in that later time that the NRA was established specifically intending to arm Blacks so they could defend their own lives, or attempt to do so in the face of a mob.

But I think by far the most important factor for the rebirth of the KKK was Lord Cecil Rhodes and his ideas about preserving white power in a world largely non-white, through your beloved progressive socialism movement which has run for over a hundred years on the principle of elitist rule worldwide.

 

[Gameface]

babe is defending Forrest?

barf

 

[babe]

Interesting article on a book (Twilight of the Elites) that argues that a true meritocracy is a myth.

"As America becomes more unequal, it’s ever harder to claim that it is a meritocratic country. It still looks like one to the people at the top, who continue to prosper. However, their view of the world is increasingly at odds with the view of people below, who like the idea of equal opportunity but don’t believe it is working.”

https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2016/10/13/13259860/twilight-elites-trump-meritocracy

Actually, I don't care..... and I think most Americans don't care, no matter what class or race or whatever label you could slice them as..... whether people with lots of money can give their kids a hand up in life. What does matter is if the system, the institutions, give us all some kind of a chance to improve our lives and the lives of our children.

What outrages most commoners, ordinary folk, is preferential treatment that is so systemic that there is no way to succeed.

And that is what modern elitist rule/fascist rule specifically enshrines as "The Way Things Are", as in that is what makes dynasties of the Clintons, Bushes.... and here in Utah a Mitt.

Name one elected official in the UN I could vote for or against.

 

[babe]

He was not a hero "somehow". He was a hero because he became wealthy owning slaves, because he fought to preserve slavery, because he murdered black soldiers that had already surrendered, because he terrorized black families after they were legally freed. The part he spoke out in favor of black advancement is curiously absent in his monuments.



It's so odd that someone who owned slaves, fought to preserve slavery, murdered black soldiers after they surrendered, and joined the KKK is thought of as racist. It must be historical revisionism; there can be no other explanation.



Most of those people were dead before I was born, I have never met the one who was not. How can I part company of people I have never met?

When have I ever said "the ends justify the means"? If anything, I emphasize the means over the ends.



I agree there is no difference there.



I bet you think you have a point. What's your evidence?



What's the conflict?



It's up to you to provide evidence that they did.

So, still grinding my axe for OB..... lol....

I think..... I hope….. you might already be aware of this item on NBF. I wasn't sure.... your reference to the part where he spoke in favor of black advancement could have been a snide sneering bit of jaundiced humor at my ignorance, as you could view it...…

Well, it looks like NBF was always an unusual and remarkable man. After ordering the KKK shutdown, a few years before his death, he was invited by a black group to speak, and he spoke well.

I'd advance this speech as a point in favor what Christianity can do for a cretin, a sinner..... as we humans generally are in reality,..... I couldn't have written a better speech myself.

http://the-american-catholic.com/2010/08/06/nathan-bedford-forrest-and-racial-reconciliation/