The Honesty of Transgender Identity

[Archie Moses]

I appreciate your participation. Thanks.

Gawd damn it I love you.

 

[LogGrad98]

I just want to add that classification of mental disorders is mostly subjective and cultural, and not strictly defined thru objective metrics. There is a lot of disagreement on what the word "disorder" even means.

This in spades. No more uncertain science than psychology.

 

[LogGrad98]

Right, this is true. Unfortunately there is also a stigma that goes along with having, or being told you have a mental disorder. Which as far as I can tell, was one of the main reasons it was removed from the DSM. What it does mean is that it would be open to study and “treat”. Like I said, I don’t know what treatment for transgenderism means, but certainly the option for counseling wouldn’t hurt. At least having people be aware that they should evaluate the situation and consider that something might be wrong, rather than celebrate the situation. I think mostly the psychiatric/psychology field has moved past locking up and torturing patients.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wow then I need to get a new therapist.

 

[LogGrad98]

I don't think it's common, but it certainly happens.

I was at Westgate in Glendale, AZ about two months ago. After dinner I was walking back to my hotel. I was wearing brown sandals (I admit they are both hideous and very white of me to wear, but comfy) and walked by a group of young college age kids (hispanics) who were probably pretty tipsy or drunk. They gave me **** specifically about my sandals and being white, but I just kept on walking.

Again, it was a dumb comment I made last night. I was just trying to say that even as a white dude, people have given me **** because I'm a white dude. It's a dumb point at best.

This makes me think of an encounter I had recently I was in Detroit for work. I went into a highly-recommended barbecue joint, which was entirely filled with black people. I was literally the only white person there. I got in line, joked a bit with some folks around me and patiently waited to order my food (place was really good btw). As people walked by me I got some serious stares, and I heard comments being made under their breath. They included things like who is this guy, what the **** is he doing here, should stay on his side of town, commenting on me being white, stuff like that. It made me feel really uncomfortable to say the least. People stared, glared. One guy looked like he wanted to kill me, actually bumped me while I was in line when there was plenty of space to walk around (I am not a small guy, 6'2" 250, he was way smaller than me, doing the tough guy thing I guess).

There were definitely nice people there. The seating was like cafeteria-style and I ended up sitting next to a group of younger people, maybe in their mid-20's, and a grandma and her 2 grandkids. We all had some great conversation. I will say, it was a crazy eye-opening experience to say the least.

I have had a few experiences like this over the years and I always try to remember how it made me feel. But it also reminds me that racism exists everywhere. It is not the sole exclusive domain of the middle-aged white man.

 

[Deleted member 95]

@LogGrad98 you mean sociology. Psychology can at least claim scientific merit.

Sent from my XT1575 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Siro]

@LogGrad98 you mean sociology. Psychology can at least claim scientific merit.

Sent from my XT1575 using JazzFanz mobile app

So can sociology. Studying human societies and gathering data about them can be very valuable. Neither sociology nor psychology is a pseudoscience or anything like that. Psychology will eventually transform into neuroscience once the tools and prerequisite knowledge become available. Sociology is more similar to political science. For example, why is it that liberal democracies don't go to war with one another? Political scientists will come up with different explanations, and provide the data to support said explanations. The explanations are scrutinized, and some of them fall out of fashion, while others gain in popularity. But since there is no limit to the number or type of explanations one can offer, what's in fashion changes as the people interpreting the data change.

Still, you gotta do with the tools and the knowledge that you have, and all the soft sciences provide valuable insights in my view.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

So can sociology. Studying human societies and gathering data about them can be very valuable. Neither sociology nor psychology is a pseudoscience or anything like that. Psychology will eventually transform into neuroscience once the tools and prerequisite knowledge become available. Sociology is more similar to political science. For example, why is it that liberal democracies don't go to war with one another? Political scientists will come up with different explanations, and provide the data to support said explanations. The explanations are scrutinized, and some of them fall out of fashion, while others gain in popularity. But since there is no limit to the number or type of explanations one can offer, what's in fashion changes as the people interpreting the data change.

Still, you gotta do with the tools and the knowledge that you have, and all the soft sciences provide valuable insights in my view.

One of the hardest things in the social sciences is the concept of measurement. In the hard sciences, it's easy. Air temperature, distance, velocity, time, current, work, practically anything is measurable. Soft sciences? How do you measure anger, affinity, pleasure, desire, success, etc.? Soft sciences have to actually create the measurement and then measure and subsequently show that it's a viable measurement.

 

[DutchJazzer]

as the great hank williams jr. said:

Why don't you do your thing
And we do our thing too?

Why can't everybody else
Leave everybody else alone?

doesn't need explaining right. if
/thread!

 

[♪alt13]

The bathroom issue. First, as much as possible the only reason I use a public restroom is to pee. If I've got to take a dump I will, but I certainly don't want to use a public restroom to take a dump. So for me I don't get why there would ever be a problem with a person using a restroom to pee or poop according to the one they feel more comfortable using. I don't hang out in public restrooms. I don't socialize in public restrooms, in fact I avoid eye contact or any type of interaction if I can. I'm in there to pee and get out. (I wash my hands)

I think a trans female has much more to fear if she is forced to use the men's room than anyone using the women's room has to fear from her. In fact, that's why urinary tract infections are a problem for trans people, they avoid using public restrooms at all, out of fear.

In my house the boys and girls use the same restroom. Me and my wife poop in the same toilet like every day. Sometimes other people come over(boys and girls) and they pee and even occasionally poop in there too! I know it's kind of a radical social experiment that we are running but honestly we have had no problems thus far.

 

[Gameface]

In my house the boys and girls use the same restroom. Me and my wife poop in the same toilet like every day. Sometimes other people come over(boys and girls) and they pee and even occasionally poop in there too! I know it's kind of a radical social experiment that we are running but honestly we have had no problems thus far.

Keep us posted, it sounds risky.

 

[Gameface]

I'm a fan of the RadioLab podcast and this is one that fits this discussion. It's 54min long... head's up.

 

[JAZZGASM]

Given that you're now arguing against the consensus of thousands of mental health professionals, what are your qualifications?

I think you've really hit on something significant with these comments, Bullet. Adolescents and children identifying as TG is-- I'll just say it bluntly-- concerning. Not because they couldn't possibly be TG, but because it is baffling why we would think young people undergoing rapid hormonal changes, and the physical and mental and emotional changes that accompany that, should be expected to state with certainty what they are. I'm not sure if candrew's information about the high incidence of TG 'switching back' is accurate, but if it is, it makes sense, doesn't it? Why are we pressuring children to make statements about gender and sexuality, or-- at a minimum-- allowing an environment that subjects them to that kind of social pressure? Sure, let's educate and encourage and cultivate, but with the understanding there is no need at age 8 or 12 or 16 to take a stand as TG... or hetero, or gay, or anything. Be kids; have fun; learn about the world.

There are drugs that can suppresses puberty and they are allowed in some countries until kids who feel transgendered can make the decision for themselves what they want to do. Once the treatment stops, normal puberty starts again. Seems like a good middle ground for kids who may not know for sure what they want for the rest of their lives. Either way, a hard decision for a parent.

I can see argument for both sides that transgenderism is/is not a mental illness. Whether it is or isn't doesn't really matter to me. It appears that the medical community went away from calling it a mental illness to reduce the stigma it was creating. It is still considered a disorder, which may be to have an avenue to get insurance to pay for treatment. To me it seems logical that if your brain does not line up with the physical characteristics of your body, you have a disorder mental or otherwise. If someone truly feels they are the wrong gender, I'm not sure that hormones or surgery will every make them feel whole, but if it helps then go for it. It would be pretty sad to have to feel that way. Transgendered people have a much higher rate of suicide attempts (41% overall IIRC) and even when they have full family and friend support and live in countries where being trans is more accepted, the suicide rate is much higher compared with non-trans. There is also a strong occurrence of other mental disorders (eating disorders, etc.) within the transgendered community. If calling someone they, non-binary, etc. and showing a little respect can make another human's life more bearable, then I'm all for it.