No consent pelvic exams while under anesthesia

[str8line]

All I can say is wow.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article...esthetized-women-without-their-knowledge.html

 

[Gameface]

I read something about this several weeks ago. Yeah, consent is needed. I will look at the linked article, but my opinion has already been primed on this.

 

[infection]

I haven’t heard of this happening on any kind of general surgery procedure (such as the referenced abdominal laparoscopy), though have heard of it on gynecological procedures, such as a vaginal hysterectomy.

 

[Rubashov]

Man most of the doctors I work with are perverts...

 

[fishonjazz]

Just an exam and nothing else? Idgaf

 

[Gameface]

Just an exam and nothing else? Idgaf

So a woman goes into surgery for some random thing. Once she's unconscious from anesthesia they bring in a medical student and start poking around in her genitals. All without her knowing anyone was going to be anywhere near her genitals.

I mean, this is an easy one. Get consent first. There is no excuse for doing this without consent.

 

[fishonjazz]

So a woman goes into surgery for some random thing. Once she's unconscious from anesthesia they bring in a medical student and start poking around in her genitals. All without her knowing anyone was going to be anywhere near her genitals.

I mean, this is an easy one. Get consent first. There is no excuse for doing this without consent.

Ya no doubt it would be different for a woman, like most things.

Hell, probably most men would be very upset.

Just me personally, idgaf if it happened to me. Too logical. My life doesn't change from it one bit and I don't care if people see me naked. Never have.

I also don't care if the government wants to spy on me. (I know that is another topic all together and totally different). Let them watch me go about my lame boring day to day activities. Idgaf.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[infection]

So a woman goes into surgery for some random thing. Once she's unconscious from anesthesia they bring in a medical student and start poking around in her genitals. All without her knowing anyone was going to be anywhere near her genitals.

I mean, this is an easy one. Get consent first. There is no excuse for doing this without consent.

I would be curious how often this is happening in unrelated procedures, as I've never heard of this -- ever (aside from the anecdote in the article). Pelvic exams aren't the domain of general surgeons, or any surgeon who's not an OBGYN, so they aren't wasting their time teaching that to medical students. Now if an OBGYN was doing a vaginal procedure, that may be the setting this would happen under.

That said, I'm not an OBGYN or a surgeon.

 

[Gameface]

I would be curious how often this is happening in unrelated procedures, as I've never heard of this -- ever (aside from the anecdote in the article). Pelvic exams aren't the domain of general surgeons, or any surgeon who's not an OBGYN, so they aren't wasting their time teaching that to medical students. During a vaginal procedure preformed by an OBGYN? That may be the setting this would happen under.

That said, I'm not an OBGYN or a surgeon.

Which was the case that I had heard about this before. But even then, why not just get consent?

 

[infection]

Which was the case that I had heard about this before. But even then, why not just get consent?

No, I get it. I'm just saying that this isn't a wide-spread thing where people are going under general anesthesia for non-genitourinary reasons and ending up getting a pelvic exam.

 

[Harambe]

No, I get it. I'm just saying that this isn't a wide-spread thing where people are going under general anesthesia for non-genitourinary reasons and ending up getting a pelvic exam.

Considering my reply, I recalled the following line from the article that could be taken as widespread overall.

In several surveys of medical students, including one at the University of Oklahoma, majorities of students said they had performed a pelvic exam on an unconscious woman. Some medical students advocate for and against the practice on internet forums.

In context of any female going under anesthesia for non-genitourinary reasons, the article provides a lot of possible wiggle room.

My guess would be it happens, but remains undocumented. I'm not convinced it happens in groups(X random med students examining one patient), but could see some Attending physicians asking a single student to preform an exam on a single patient. I would imagine that although undocumented, the person making the investigation is a listed care provider to the patient's record. It seems like there was a sitcom or something where a dentist was 'feeling around' women's chest. I don't recall which...

I certainly don't care for it, and if it were my wife/daughter/sister/mother I'd throw brimstone. "Nothing is like the hands on approach" simply isn't a good enough reason to violate a woman. That's very similar rationale that was used to defend digging up graves. In 2019, the argument that computer simulation isn't up to snuff must have been made by someone unfamiliar that the movie they took their floozie to the other night was more than half CG.

 

[ONE LOVE]

Yet, as one physician wrote in the journal Health Care Law and Policy, giving pelvic exams under anesthesia is "a practice that is age-old and universally performed."

Welp, as long as it's 'an age-old practice', it should be allowed.

Wow.

 

[Alfalfa]

I'm shocked this happens. Disgusting.

 

[Harambe]

It might also be a good idea to understand sedation vs general anesthesia

https://www.news-medical.net/health...-Between-Sedation-and-General-Anesthesia.aspx

Sedation vs. General Anesthesia
While both sedation and general anesthesia are forms of anesthesia, and sedation is a component of general anesthesia, they are different in several respects. Patients under general anesthesia have a complete loss of consciousness. This means that the patient will not feel, hear or remember anything. In order to achieve this loss of consciousness, a mixture of agents is necessary. In contrast, a state somewhere between being very sleepy, being relaxed in consciousness, and yet not unconscious, characterizes sedation. The patients will not feel pain, but are aware of what is going on around them.

 

[infection]

My guess would be it happens, but remains undocumented. I'm not convinced it happens in groups(X random med students examining one patient), but could see some Attending physicians asking a single student to preform an exam on a single patient.

Every medical student is at some point scrubbed in on a surgery for a vaginal procedure. No, it's not happening in a group, but that's not the point. I would say anyone getting a practice pelvic exam on a general surgery is a large, large anomaly.

In 2019, the argument that computer simulation isn't up to snuff must have been made by someone unfamiliar that the movie they took their floozie to the other night was more than half CG.

I'm not really sure I'm following your sentence, but if you're saying that computer simulation can adequately teach you physical exam techniques, then you are way off base. This statement is in no relation to whether that should happen under anesthesia, but if your question is can you adequately simulate and recreate components of a physical exam to have sufficient educational value, the answer is no.

 

[Keefe]

So a woman goes into surgery for some random thing. Once she's unconscious from anesthesia they bring in a medical student and start poking around in her genitals. All without her knowing anyone was going to be anywhere near her genitals.

I mean, this is an easy one. Get consent first. There is no excuse for doing this without consent.

Except it sounds like they did when the patient signed some sort of waiver, I assume, with fine print stating such things might take place.

 

[Harambe]

I'm not really sure I'm following your sentence, but if you're saying that computer simulation can adequately teach you physical exam techniques, then you are way off base. This statement is in no relation to whether that should happen under anesthesia, but if your question is can you adequately simulate and recreate components of a physical exam to have sufficient educational value, the answer is no.

The gist of the statement was if someone thinks computer simulation can't be just as effective, that person must not understand how good we've gotten at computer-generated imagery. Too, that I imagined an older doctor that said it, and they do not realize how much it exists in our culture.

It also implied that older physicians routinely take out younger, beautiful women that find money attractive(floozies).

I only criticized your interpretation of "widespread". You have clarified your understanding of what you feel widespread means. Thank you. This explains why we disagree.

 

[infection]

The gist of the statement was if someone thinks computer simulation can't be just as effective, that person must not understand how good we've gotten at computer-generated imagery.

Is this a function of someone not understanding ‘how good computer-generated imagery has gotten’ or is it a function of someone else not understanding, or being experienced with, clinical medicine to realize that this assertion is false?

I only criticized your interpretation of "widespread". You have clarified your understanding of what you feel widespread means. Thank you. This explains why we disagree.

My clarification of not being wide spread is that this is not something that’s happening to any significant degree outside of OBGYN settings. Is that something you disagree with? I’d love to hear why.

 

[Hotdog]

Ya no doubt it would be different for a woman, like most things.

Hell, probably most men would be very upset.

Just me personally, idgaf if it happened to me. Too logical. My life doesn't change from it one bit and I don't care if people see me naked. Never have.

I also don't care if the government wants to spy on me. (I know that is another topic all together and totally different). Let them watch me go about my lame boring day to day activities. Idgaf.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

Everytime you fall asleep I sneak in your house and slap my balls on your face. Idgaf

 

[jazzfan1971]

This is wild. How much easier would it be to just put an ad on Craigslist for a female willing to undergo 30 pelvic exams for 200$ It's not that hard to find someone willing to help train these doctors. No need to go about this on the down low.