Alfalfa
Well-Known Member
There seems to be a lot of confusion about Trump's supporters' approach to debate, so I'm here to explain some things.
The reason you can't debate with the Trumpers in the traditional rationalist way is not accidental. While the vast majority of ideologues (along with normal people) conform to their preferred side's talking points and arguments without a lot of reflection, those who create the talking points know exactly what they're doing. Someone like Dutch doesn't know what's going on. He's on 4chan and/or Reddit all day, and he parrots what he hears on those platforms, much like the vast majority of those platforms' users. Someone like Bannon, however, does.
The ultimate goal of the neo-nationalists is to end "modernity". In particular, the acceptance of multiculturalism and feminism in the modern West. To do so you can either attack the first principles of modern egalitarianism, like individual autonomy as the basic unit on which moral values are built. Or you can attack the tools that the modernists use; i.e. rational discourse and scientific empiricism.
The second point is the one relevant to this discussion. Neo-nationalists cannot win using the rationalist tools. So instead, they opt to attack rationality itself. If you want to claim that 5 times as many people attended Trump's inauguration or whatever, then you must follow that with dismissal of any contrary evidence. You can't go "let's see pictures and compare", because your argument is insincere, and a fact-based evaluation will result in its defeat. Therefore, you attack the messenger. "Oh did the mainstream media tell you this? lol, you're a sheep". Never, ever, address the fact at hand. Simply claim that all who disagree are simply in on the conspiracy. Scientists? They're all about keeping their careers and that grant money flowing. The media? All owned by the same evil globalists and work as truth gatekeepers.
Back before those people rose to power, they were more forthcoming about their tactics and what they're trying to do. A very mild example would be the aforementioned Bannon when asked, in 2015, about immigration and its obvious positive effects on the economy. He simply responded that if maximizing GDP means having so many East Asians in positions of power (in business), then GDP is not worth pursuing.
That's what they really think. But they cannot publicly take that stance (for now). So instead, they shout about fake news, the public schools, academia, or whatever source of information modern society has come to rely upon. As long as truth is in the eye of the beholder, then they cannot be wrong.
And here we are in the midst of an epistemological crisis. Nothing can be trusted. There are no truths. There are only agendas. So hey, forget what those "experts" told ya, and join our cause.
So remember this next time you're pulling your hair trying to get a simple fact across: they don't give a **** about your facts.
Thank you.
The reason you can't debate with the Trumpers in the traditional rationalist way is not accidental. While the vast majority of ideologues (along with normal people) conform to their preferred side's talking points and arguments without a lot of reflection, those who create the talking points know exactly what they're doing. Someone like Dutch doesn't know what's going on. He's on 4chan and/or Reddit all day, and he parrots what he hears on those platforms, much like the vast majority of those platforms' users. Someone like Bannon, however, does.
The ultimate goal of the neo-nationalists is to end "modernity". In particular, the acceptance of multiculturalism and feminism in the modern West. To do so you can either attack the first principles of modern egalitarianism, like individual autonomy as the basic unit on which moral values are built. Or you can attack the tools that the modernists use; i.e. rational discourse and scientific empiricism.
The second point is the one relevant to this discussion. Neo-nationalists cannot win using the rationalist tools. So instead, they opt to attack rationality itself. If you want to claim that 5 times as many people attended Trump's inauguration or whatever, then you must follow that with dismissal of any contrary evidence. You can't go "let's see pictures and compare", because your argument is insincere, and a fact-based evaluation will result in its defeat. Therefore, you attack the messenger. "Oh did the mainstream media tell you this? lol, you're a sheep". Never, ever, address the fact at hand. Simply claim that all who disagree are simply in on the conspiracy. Scientists? They're all about keeping their careers and that grant money flowing. The media? All owned by the same evil globalists and work as truth gatekeepers.
Back before those people rose to power, they were more forthcoming about their tactics and what they're trying to do. A very mild example would be the aforementioned Bannon when asked, in 2015, about immigration and its obvious positive effects on the economy. He simply responded that if maximizing GDP means having so many East Asians in positions of power (in business), then GDP is not worth pursuing.
That's what they really think. But they cannot publicly take that stance (for now). So instead, they shout about fake news, the public schools, academia, or whatever source of information modern society has come to rely upon. As long as truth is in the eye of the beholder, then they cannot be wrong.
And here we are in the midst of an epistemological crisis. Nothing can be trusted. There are no truths. There are only agendas. So hey, forget what those "experts" told ya, and join our cause.
So remember this next time you're pulling your hair trying to get a simple fact across: they don't give a **** about your facts.
Thank you.
) and everybody would say that i am american instead of an estonian person. For example, here in Estonia there was a story about great finnish female basketball player who is able to dunk. However, her name is arabic (she was born in Sudan) and of course does not have any resemblance of typical finnish woman.
