The alt-right and the epistemological catastrophe.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Alfalfa, Jan 7, 2019.

  1. Jonah

    Jonah Well-Known Member

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    The crisis is that facts no longer matter and truth is in danger of being relativized out of existence. The pseudo-posters will continue to jam their fingers in their ears, but for those interested in an expansion on what the OP is getting at, here is a very good article, now over a year old, yet still very relevant to the topic:

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/2/16588964/america-epistemic-crisis
     
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  2. lauriandres

    lauriandres Well-Known Member

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    But when small countries accept huge amount of foreigners, then it is pretty hard IMHO to preserve original language without the use of more or less force?

    Is it somewhat of taboo to ask about his/her heritage from US citizens? I would tell stories about my ancestors without any problems.
     
  3. lauriandres

    lauriandres Well-Known Member

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    Of course if they want to identify the he/she is American then i will accept it (with an awkward face :)). In a grand scheme of things it is minor thing to worry about.
     
  4. LogGrad98

    LogGrad98 Well-Known Member Contributor

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    The title of this thread would be a great name for an alt-rock band.
     
  5. NPC D4617

    NPC D4617 Well-Known Member

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  6. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Well-Known Member

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    What if a white American identified just as an American. Would they still get your internal eye roll?
     
  7. One Brow

    One Brow Well-Known Member

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    I suppose that depends on what you mean by "preserve" and "force". If Estonian remains the official language of Estonia, is required to fill out government paperwork, is a required subject at the elementary/secondary school levels, etc., than most of the immigrants will make efforts to learn Estonian, and their children will pick it up as easily as the children of native Estonians. Is that some level of "force"?

    In the US, some people trace back their heritage to other countries through generations, others don't. I know all of my great-grandparents were immigrants from Italy, Germany, or Ireland, but it makes no difference in my life. There is no taboo, but sometimes disinterest.

    Then again, for some groups of marginalized people, particularly black people, it's not possible to trace back your ancestors to another country, and that can raise a certain sore spot on that issue with some people (it varies from person to person).
     
  8. NAOS

    NAOS Well-Known Member

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    I say that in the links provided
     
  9. NAOS

    NAOS Well-Known Member

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    It’s more explicit now. That doesn’t mean it’s actually worse (if “better” or “worse” is measured by the actual psychodynamic processes of adopting a belief within a tribe and arming oneself with the rhetoric to defend that belief in the face of opposition).
     
  10. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Well-Known Member

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    It is more explicit. But, at least in my experience, it's also more widespread. Due to how widespread the use of the internet has become. For example, 20 years ago, knowing a "conspiracy theorist" was an interesting anecdote. Today, I know enough that I can't keep straight who believes in what. Even 10 years ago, you had to travel to the fringes of the internet to discuss alien anal probing. Now, the likes of Alex Jones are dime a dozen. And each with a boatload of followers (which I'm sure overlap to an extent). The crisis has gone out of control.
     
  11. gandalfe

    gandalfe Well-Known Member

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    So... many... links.
     
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  12. Bulletproof

    Bulletproof All-Jazzfanz First Team! Contributor 2018 Award Winner

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  13. NAOS

    NAOS Well-Known Member

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    It’s frustrating, for sure.

    But at least we don’t have univocal, patriotic systems pointing a gun to our heads. As institutions begin to crumble, there are zones with great longitudes and latitudes for independent thinking. And there are still a few wildernesses out there where you could go live without troubling yourself much with these politics.
     
  14. Catchall

    Catchall Well-Known Member

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    I don't personally agree with the premises in your OP. You use the term "they" rather glibly and casually to categorize people who support Trump in general. That itself is a reduced and dismissive claim. Lots of people supported Trump vs. Hilary Clinton, and for a variety of reasons. The circumstances under which Trump got elected were diverse and complex. Trump was largely an unknown when he ran for President. Few people could predict how he would formulate his cabinet or the degree to which he would carry out his claims prior to getting into office. He said he would take on the deep state, though few people even know what that really means. He said he would fight Obama-care, and he has. He said he would place a conservative Justice on the Supreme Court. He said he would fight illegal immigration. Etc.

    What you seem to be objecting to in your post appears to be conservative voters' obstruction to 'social liberalism' or perhaps a belief system based on abject 'individualism'. In other words, your debate might be "conservatism" vs. "social liberalism," regardless of whose name and face is affixed to either side. This is the main issue that I see dividing the country ideologically.

    What some liberals view as a movement towards "social progress," more conservative voters view as a movement towards "decadence and erosion of morality." In other words, there is a stark difference of opinion as to what the very definition of morality should be.

    Before you make the claim that 'facts' are categorically on your side, why don't you take a few specific examples, and we'll see if that's really the case.
     
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  15. Bulletproof

    Bulletproof All-Jazzfanz First Team! Contributor 2018 Award Winner

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    Very good post.

    But please address, why do so many Trump supporters enjoy childish zingers like I mention in the second post compared even to other non-Trump supporting conservatives? Why does that type of asinine political equivalent of a poop joke play such a large role in their rhetoric?

    Lyin' Ted, Pocahontas, Little Marco, Crooked Hillary. I mean these are grade school level taunts. This is stuff that has no place in civilized debate. This is WWE brought to D.C..

    And then the lies. The lies that are exposed but somehow do not affect his credibility. The lies that he and his representatives get confronted with and they simply tell a different lie and never acknowledge that they ever even lied. I don't remember a President or the supporters of a President that had no shame in getting caught in flat out intentional lies, mistruths, fabrications and distortions. It ain't no thang to the Trump camp. Just lie, or mis-speak, or grossly misrepresent facts, then shrug it off like it was never your job to be honest in the first place? And then have a horde of idiots willing to accept that?

    I don't get it. It is honestly mind boggling to me.
     
  16. NPC D4617

    NPC D4617 Well-Known Member

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  17. Bulletproof

    Bulletproof All-Jazzfanz First Team! Contributor 2018 Award Winner

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  18. NPC D4617

    NPC D4617 Well-Known Member

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  19. NPC D4617

    NPC D4617 Well-Known Member

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  20. idestroyedthetoilet

    idestroyedthetoilet Well-Known Member

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    The more pressing question is what to do with these children who see crisis around every corner, catastrophe underneath every rock. I used to find the doomsday conspiracy preppers entertaining with their sensationalized stories, but man, these little boys who cry wolf and are afraid of their own shadows make Alex Jones look normally intelligent.
     
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