Jazz Play The Magic: A Gamethread 7pm Mountain TIme

[Handlogten's Heros]

“Allow” them to have a fabulous life? This **** is transactional, fans do it because they enjoy it, not as a charity.

The money is there already, this can spin off into a conversation about labor or market economics gouging the consumer, but we’ll stop there.

Joe Ingles 2020.

100% its transactional... but without interest and fans the money disappears... money is what allows them to make a fabulous living playing the sport. Didn't mean to make it seem like a charity... but there is a disdain/belittling for the fans/media that some players have (joe isn't one... more like the KDs of the world) that bugs me at times.

Joe is 100% right with the "hey we want to do well too" the only part that bugged me was just the "eat popcorn, enjoy their little date night" part that has a tone I don't love. Just could have done without that part. He was probably a little salty and rightfully so... they didn't deserve the smattering of boos last night... so again.. imma say that was referring to the bad/casual fans that don't understand that sometimes shots don't go in or things don't work like you want them too.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

100% its transactional... but without interest and fans the money disappears... money is what allows them to make a fabulous living playing the sport. Didn't mean to make it seem like a charity... but there is a disdain/belittling for the fans/media that some players have (joe isn't one... more like the KDs of the world) that bugs me at times.

Joe is 100% right with the "hey we want to do well too" the only part that bugged me was just the "eat popcorn, enjoy their little date night" part that has a tone I don't love. Just could have done without that part. He was probably a little salty and rightfully so... they didn't deserve the smattering of boos last night... so again.. imma say that was referring to the bad/casual fans that don't understand that sometimes shots don't go in or things don't work like you want them too.

You sound like a baby if that part bothered you.

 

[kabenac]

Note: I loved that Rodney Hood got booed last year because he was poison on and off the court.

Hood was poison everywhere he went. Here's an actual ultrasound his doctor took of him:

 

[colton]

Booing isnt going to help the team win, I think that's Joe's point. It probably hurts their performance more than helps.

Contrarian argument: Well, it seemed to work last night.

But I get where Joe is coming from.

 

[infection]

I've never booed my team and I never will. I find it kind of embarrassing, actually. The people who boo are a significant minority.

However, fan interest is irrational, and it's that same fan interest that has generated so much money to enable this whole thing to play out. Fans will be irrationally happy when their team is preforming well, and the other side of that coin is that they may be irrationally upset/sad/angry when they are not. It's just the reality of it. Really high highs are punctuated with really low lows. Those who don't experience the lows generally also aren't experiencing the highs. Experiencing the lows isn't equated with booing, but it's important to understand. People invest a lot of time and money to support professional sports. Often times money they don't have or shouldn't be spending. Of the 19k fans, how many could be fired tomorrow and have a guaranteed salary? Just because somebody earns more is not a reason to treat them poorly (which is actually a popular cultural expectation, depending on whom the target is, but I digress), but it's fan interest and money that they're plugging away to make this whole enterprise work. The fans pay the salaries. Nearly every fan in that arena has some kind of boss they report to, and the consequences of poor performance or effort can be much more severe than boos, as they do not have high salaries and guaranteed contracts, yet still fork out money to contribute to the securities of those who entertain or provide entertainment.

That said, I was unaware of any booing. It's a vast, vast minority. I'm not among them. But just as we should understand that these players are humans, don't always preform perfectly, and can make mistakes and have other things going on in their lives that affect their play, we also need to realize that these fans are also humans, they don't always make the best decisions in the moment, and they can make mistakes and have other things going on in their lives that affect the way they do or do not support a team. Such is life.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Contrarian argument: Well, it seemed to work last night.

But I get where Joe is coming from.

I dont see how it did. The boos came in the 2nd quarter, and their play did not improve in the 2nd quarter.

They improved when they went in to locker-room and made adjustments.

 

[Jack Strop]

Contrarian argument: Well, it seemed to work last night.

But I get where Joe is coming from.

Agree. The Jazz deserved to get booed in the 1st half. There was lack of effort/urgency. Its not like there was a sudden talent infusion at halftime. They didn't install a new offense or change players. It was all about defensive effort.

Hey Joe, if you don't want to hear boos, just give an honest effort during the game. Fans pay a helluva lot of money and players make a helluva lot. We understand wins and losses. Sometimes shots don't fall. Sometimes opponents just have an amazing game. And sometimes other teams just have better talent. But we don't understand the lack of effort we saw in the first half. Especially since defense is mostly about effort.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Agree. The Jazz deserved to get booed in the 1st half. There was lack of effort/urgency. Its not like there was a sudden talent infusion at halftime. They didn't install a new offense or change players. It was all about defensive effort.

Hey Joe, if you don't want to hear boos, just give an honest effort during the game. Fans pay a helluva lot of money and players make a helluva lot. We understand wins and losses. Sometimes shots don't fall. Sometimes opponents just have an amazing game. And sometimes other teams just have better talent. But we don't understand the lack of effort we saw in the first half. Especially since defense is mostly about effort.

Positive reinforcement usually trumps negative reinforcement.

There's also probably more at play than you realize, like a scheme adjustment the Magic put in that the Jazz were not anticipating, causing the Jazz to think instead of react on either end.

People have rights to do a lot of things, but it doesnt mean you should do them.

 

[candrew]

I think it's well established Joe has a bit of a sardonic edge to him - I wouldn't take his comments about "eating popcorn and little date nights" too personally.

And he shouldn't take booing so personally.

Seriously - everyone lighten the **** up.....

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

You sound like a baby if that part bothered you.

Nah... it was a little condescending. I don't think any less of Joe and he's right.. fans shouldn't boo... it's not a good look.

 

[Watcher]

Note: I loved that Rodney Hood got booed last year because he was poison on and off the court.

Speaking of Hood, he's missing games with yet another injury. I feel bad for the guy but we did the right thing getting rid of him.

 

[idiot]

Here's why I don't like booing:

Booing is powerful because it is generally regarded as a rather direct moral judgment -- as an assessment on a person's effort, intentions, character, and ultimately value. (Booing the other team is somewhat tolerated in the spirit of competition). We almost always make a mistake when we judge other people morally because we cannot truly know anything about their effort, intentions, and character (especially when the only standard we have to judge is how they're doing in comparison to some of the few other hundred people in the world who are the best same task).

I find it telling how the message from both Quin and the players yesterday was how proud he was of them, and how little yelling or screaming there was in the locker room at halftime. I take it that's because Quin knows much better than any fan what the players' level of effort, intention, and character are.

I will admit to finding it a bit ironic that our biggest trash talker was the one who seemed to worry most about the booing. But maybe that's because he figures that booing is like trash talking: it's fine to do against the other team in the spirit of competition, but you'd never do it to your teammates in the middle of a game.

 

[infection]

I will admit to finding it a bit ironic that our biggest trash talker was the one who seemed to worry most about the booing. But maybe that's because he figures that booing is like trash talking: it's fine to do against the other team in the spirit of competition, but you'd never do it to your teammates in the middle of a game.

I don't know that we can make that assessment. It may have simply been that our biggest trash talker was the one who was asked about the booing, which puts a different perspective on it.

With regard to Quin not yelling at players:

 

[infection]

I don't know that we can make that assessment. It may have simply been that our biggest trash talker was the one who was asked about the booing, which puts a different perspective on it.

With regard to Quin not yelling at players:

The shot at 3:16 is for sure a whistle these days.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Here's why I don't like booing:

Booing is powerful because it is generally regarded as a rather direct moral judgment -- as an assessment on a person's effort, intentions, character, and ultimately value. (Booing the other team is somewhat tolerated in the spirit of competition). We almost always make a mistake when we judge other people morally because we cannot truly know anything about their effort, intentions, and character (especially when the only standard we have to judge is how they're doing in comparison to some of the few other hundred people in the world who are the best same task).

I find it telling how the message from both Quin and the players yesterday was how proud he was of them, and how little yelling or screaming there was in the locker room at halftime. I take it that's because Quin knows much better than any fan what the players' level of effort, intention, and character are.

I will admit to finding it a bit ironic that our biggest trash talker was the one who seemed to worry most about the booing. But maybe that's because he figures that booing is like trash talking: it's fine to do against the other team in the spirit of competition, but you'd never do it to your teammates in the middle of a game.

I agree with this.

I think negative motivation is helpful to get guys going sometimes... but not from home fans. There have been times in competitive environments were opposing team players or hecklers talked smack to me and I love it... gets me fired up. We saw it from DM in Detroit.

Now if I looked in the stands and my friends, family, teammates or other supporters were booing I'd be pissed.

They were trying yesterday... shots weren't going in... was compounded by the other team making shots at a level they don't normally make.

 

[fishonjazz]

Neto will have a 12 year jazz career and stay in the organization forever... everyone loves that dude.

He wasn’t great last night but I think he will bounce back... can never question his effort that’s for sure.

And even though he wasn't great he still had a positive impact on the game. I remember the floater bucket and then steal and fast break finish with Nikola all over him at a very crucial part of the game.
He was a plus 22 in his 31 minutes. Highest on the entire team.

He played quite good defense despite having some very bad calls against him (there was one that should have been a charge on DJ). Him getting into that ruckus on the floor might have even caused a spark in aggression and emotion for the team.

Tbh, I think I might prefer him over Rubio and X.

He is shooting 51% from the field, 33% from 3 (his 0-5 last night brought that down a fair bet I'm guessing), and 93% from the free throw line. I know the sample size is small and often against backups in garbage time yada yada yada but I think all three of those shooting% are better than X or Rubio.

I'm kinda excited to see what he can do while those other guys are injured.

Would be hilarious if the jazz went undefeated with neto as our only point guard and he played great and ended up taking the starting job when everyone is healthy.

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[fishonjazz]

I dont see how it did. The boos came in the 2nd quarter, and their play did not improve in the 2nd quarter.

They improved when they went in to locker-room and made adjustments.

Ya but they probably discussed the booing in the locker room at halftime and decided that they would give it their all for the fans in the second half to turn those boos into cheers

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[Handlogten's Heros]

And even though he wasn't great he still had a positive impact on the game. I remember the floater bucket and then steal and fast break finish with Nikola all over him at a very crucial part of the game.
He was a plus 22 in his 31 minutes. Highest on the entire team.

He played quite good defense despite having some very bad calls against him (there was one that should have been a charge on DJ). Him getting into that ruckus on the floor might have even caused a spark in aggression and emotion for the team.

Tbh, I think I might prefer him over Rubio and X.

He is shooting 51% from the field, 33% from 3 (his 0-5 last night brought that down a fair bet I'm guessing), and 93% from the free throw line. I know the sample size is small and often against backups in garbage time yada yada yada but I think all three of those shooting% are better than X or Rubio.

I'm kinda excited to see what he can do while those other guys are injured.

Would be hilarious if the jazz went undefeated with neto as our only point guard and he played great and ended up taking the starting job when everyone is healthy.

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He plays good defense from a fundamental stand point and plays/trys so hard... but guys just shoot like he's not there. I'm fine with him... if he hits a couple threes last night I'd have been really happy with his game... he's normally better than that. His floater... short midrange adds something the other guys haven't given us.

 

[idiot]

I don't know that we can make that assessment. It may have simply been that our biggest trash talker was the one who was asked about the booing, which puts a different perspective on it.

With regard to Quin not yelling at players:

Yes, you might be right that he was the only one asked about it. Good point.

I know Quin can and does yell. But the point is that he (presumably) has a better handle on when those kind of actions are both warranted and likely to be effective.

 

[idiot]

PS -- I think we overdo the "wake-up!" yell from Quin a couple of years ago. I'm not saying it's a totally one-time thing. But it's certainly not what we've seen as his dominant in-game persona, even in blowout losses.