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Summer 2019 Roster Discussion

infection said:
Of course not. It's because the whole thing is like a bait-and-switch. We're okay with not doing certain moves because originally 2019 we'd swing for the fences on Kawhi Leonard, Jimmy Butler, or Klay Thompson. Then we moved down to Tobias Harris and Khris Middleton and were okay with it. Now we're at Julius Randle. This summer, we may be content with bringing in Aminu or Marvin Williams when we find out we're trading assets to get Kevin Love.
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It's pretty obvious the Jazz arent trading for Love unless they are getting assets back.

And there's only so much we can talk about Tobias Harris. People are just exhausting options to talk about for the sake of talking about it.

(And yes, I think the Jazz might be getting Aminu)
 
LoPo said:
Is LeBron James a top 3 player in the NBA?

He is on the same roster Randle was on last year except LA also added Rondo, McGee and Lance from 2018 playoff teams and former champ Tyson Chandler. Also, Lonzo, Kuzma, and Ingram have gotten another year under them.

LA still isn't a playoff team as of now. Not really fair to blame lack of playoff experience on Randle. And how many years did it take for Favors to make the playoffs?

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Look man, even if that were all there is to the story*, you simply cannot make the playoff argument for Randle and against Favors.

* that Lakers team is only missing the playoffs because Lebron missed more games than any other season in his career while simultaneously destroying the team’s morale with his trade ********.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Look man, even if that were all there is to the story*, you simply cannot make the playoff argument for Randle and against Favors.

* that Lakers team is only missing the playoffs because Lebron missed more games than any other season in his career while simultaneously destroying the team’s morale with his trade ********.
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Does Favors have less value because it took him a while to make the playoffs too? It is a team game. Does Blake suck because he isn't on an East playoff team? Doncic?

The Lakers were barely clinging to a playoff spot with LeBron and Rondo, Lance, McGee and Chandler. That team has major flaws with or without LBJ or Randle.

Discounting a player due to a lack of playoff appearances is foolish. It is a team game.

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LoPo said:
Please just watch this 3 minute video. The guy isn't perfect and I would rather have Tobias Harris, but this Randle guy would completely open up our offense.




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Sure he’d help the few games he plays out of his mind. Nothing about this video tells us how he’d help the jazz. I’ve watched him play a lot lately. He’s not a fit for this team.
 
LoPo said:
So putting big men on skates as he drives past them, causing the defense to collapse, and hitting wide open shooters for 3's wouldn't help us at all?



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Thats ignoring that he would be a huge drop off on defense and rebounding. Plus you are ignoring the fact that pretty much every advanced stat shows Favors is the better player and helps his team win more. Plus the fact that Favors shoots better from mid range and at the rim.

But this is coming from the guy whos main argument against Favors is that he didnt play enough minutes in the playoffs when he was hurt and clearly hobbling up and down the court.

I am happy to upgrade Favors and our PF spot. Although the real comparison should be more to Crowder since he plays the most minutes at the 4 for us. But Randle isnt an upgrade and will be expensive. There is an argument that he develops into a better option going forward.
 
LoPo said:
So putting big men on skates as he drives past them, causing the defense to collapse, and hitting wide open shooters for 3's wouldn't help us at all?



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Mitchell is very good at that too. That’s the problem, we don’t need the pf version, (and a lesser one at that) of DM taking the ball out of his or Ingles hands. He has some of the worst tunnel vision I’ve ever seen from a guy who’s been in the league as long as him. When he gets the ball he puts on those tunnel vision goggles and basically says screw the offense and the rest of the team. He rarely gets hot within an offense because he never takes what the offense gives him. With the ball he tends to ignore the team and puts all of his focus on scoring. How else do you think the pels went from playoffs to bottom dwellers, and don’t use Davis as the scape goat, because they went down hill long before Davis gave up on his team.

Just watch him play!!

I’m all for upgrading Favors, or letting him walk for an offensive minded wing, but my god, Randle would be terrible for the identity of this team, how can you not see that!!!
 
Ron Mexico said:
Thats ignoring that he would be a huge drop off on defense and rebounding. Plus you are ignoring the fact that pretty much every advanced stat shows Favors is the better player and helps his team win more. Plus the fact that Favors shoots better from mid range and at the rim.

But this is coming from the guy whos main argument against Favors is that he didnt play enough minutes in the playoffs when he was hurt and clearly hobbling up and down the court.

I am happy to upgrade Favors and our PF spot. Although the real comparison should be more to Crowder since he plays the most minutes at the 4 for us. But Randle isnt an upgrade and will be expensive. There is an argument that he develops into a better option going forward.
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A big part of defense is rebounding, and Randle does that as well as Favors. Randle is a career 8.9rpg player whereas Favors is 7.1rpg. During the course of his 4 years on the floor, Randle averages 6.8 defensive rpg.

Advanced stats show that Favors helps his team win more even though we all know he is the weakest starter in the starting lineup. If he is so great, why is everybody, probably you included, talking about Tobias, Otto, Randle, Mirotic, and others? We talk about those guys because we know there is a difference between season basketball, 1st round basketball and contender basketball. We can't play contender basketball with Favors at PF. That's why he has played about 15mpg in the 2nd round over the last two years.

I'm not 100% sold on Randle, but at $20 million, I think he could be a great fit with his skill set. I really like Tobias, but I'm not even sure he is a 100% perfect fit either because of his defense and short lived high level play. And his cost would be almost $33 million if we were able to get him. To me, we would risk more on Tobias than we would on Randle because Randle is cheaper, younger, and can play C if we really need him to. I like Tobias more, but Randle improves our team over what we currently have.
 
What a huge disappointment it will be if our big free agent acquisition is Al Farouq Aminu.
 
Jingled said:
What a huge disappointment it will be if our big free agent acquisition is Al Farouq Aminu.
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Prepare yourself because it's either him or Love. I think we'll swing for Love because it needs to be a PR win with a sexy name (not saying it's a win, just that it's an easy PR spin because people know nothing of contract and cap).
 
infection said:
Prepare yourself because it's either him or Love. I think we'll swing for Love because it needs to be a PR win with a sexy name (not saying it's a win, just that it's an easy PR spin because people know nothing of contract and cap).
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If we're able to upgrade the point guard position then I guess I'd be fine with Aminu. If we re-sign Rubio or make Exum the starter then I'd rather have Love, contract and all.
 
Jingled said:
What a huge disappointment it will be if our big free agent acquisition is Al Farouq Aminu.
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I'm at a point where if we got Aminu for a short deal and used the rest of our space to acquire an asset by taking on a large expiring, I'm not all that upset.

If we got Aminu, Biyombo and Charlotte's 2020 1st rounder, I'm happier with that than just staying put yet again.
 
Jingled said:
If we're able to upgrade the point guard position then I guess I'd be fine with Aminu. If we re-sign Rubio or make Exum the starter then I'd rather have Love, contract and all.
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Aminu and Dragic would be solid, if he opts out.
 
LoPo said:
If he is so great, why is everybody, probably you included, talking about Tobias, Otto, Randle, Mirotic, and others?
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BECAUSE HE IS A BAD FIT NEXT TO ONE OF OUR FRANCHISE PLAYERS, NOT BECAUSE HE IS A BAD PLAYER.

You know this, dude.
 
LoPo said:
A big part of defense is rebounding, and Randle does that as well as Favors. Randle is a career 8.9rpg player whereas Favors is 7.1rpg. During the course of his 4 years on the floor, Randle averages 6.8 defensive rpg.

Advanced stats show that Favors helps his team win more even though we all know he is the weakest starter in the starting lineup. If he is so great, why is everybody, probably you included, talking about Tobias, Otto, Randle, Mirotic, and others? We talk about those guys because we know there is a difference between season basketball, 1st round basketball and contender basketball. We can't play contender basketball with Favors at PF. That's why he has played about 15mpg in the 2nd round over the last two years.

I'm not 100% sold on Randle, but at $20 million, I think he could be a great fit with his skill set. I really like Tobias, but I'm not even sure he is a 100% perfect fit either because of his defense and short lived high level play. And his cost would be almost $33 million if we were able to get him. To me, we would risk more on Tobias than we would on Randle because Randle is cheaper, younger, and can play C if we really need him to. I like Tobias more, but Randle improves our team over what we currently have.
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Favors was hurt the last two years in the playoffs. If it was the regular season he would not have played but he's a tough dude that cares about winning.

Rebounding is part of defense but that's only part of it. Randle is much worse at the rest. He is also a worse rebounder. Advanced stats show that. Also just watching them points to that very clearly.

I think all of it positions can be upgraded. So we should always be looking for that. But part of upgrading is getting a better player. He is not an upgrade to favors, nor is he a better fit. Crowder is a better fit at PF for us and going to be much cheaper next year.

Also currently our weakest position is PG. Or if you are the person who wants Mitchell at PG then SG is our weakest. But the forward spot is next.
 
NUMBERICA said:
BECAUSE HE IS A BAD FIT NEXT TO ONE OF OUR FRANCHISE PLAYERS, NOT BECAUSE HE IS A BAD PLAYER.

You know this, dude.
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I think he is an okay fit next to Gobert. It could be better but it's feasible and has some huge benefits to go with some downside. But those two with a terrible shooting PG is a bad fit.

Favors is a really good mid range shooter at over 50%. If you have 3 other players that are good 3 point shooters that can work well with Gobert. But you can't have 1 good 3 point shooter, Mitchell, and 3 guys who can't shoot a 3 play well together on offense consistently.
 
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