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Jazz ban 2nd fan for calling Westbrook "boy"

The Thriller said:
Just curious, those claiming to have NOT KNOWN that using the word, “boy” as a white person to a black person wasn’t racist, could you please:

A. Tell me where you’re from (city and state). Just curious because I wonder how many urban areas in Utah are ignorant of this? Or if it’s isolated to the rural areas where the population is homogeneous?
B. Tell me what books you’ve read about slavery and social justice.

Because, I’ll be honest, I didn’t think it was possible to live in America in 2019 and not know that calling a black person a “boy” was racist. The connection of whites demeaning blacks as “boys” has a long and extensive history going from slavery to Jim Crow to even President Obama. I can’t remember who it was but early in his career a white congressman referee to Obama as “boy” and it caused outrage among the African American community.

For those looking for some good reads:

* 12 Years a Slave (incredible nonfiction story. Far better than the movie and the movie was outstanding)
* To Kill a Mockingbird (classic)
* Black Like Me (written in the 1950s by a white journalist who made his skin dark and experienced life in the Deep South as a black man)
* White Rage (gives you a completely different perspective on Kaepernick and BLM)
* The New Jim Crow (change your views on the war on drugs)
* Just Mercy (my favorite, change your views on capital punishment)
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What if i said “atta boy burks! Great dunk bro!”
Offensive or not? I did call him boy in this scenario


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This whole climate is sad. Hostility is just growing in this country. Racism is growing. My theory is that racism isn't always the reason. I think racism is becoming the byproduct.

So many minorities are mired in an endless loop of poverty. So many people in this country aren't progressing. They are simply barely surviving. The real issues in this country is entitlement vs retribution and resulting rising anger within communities stricken with poverty in an advanced civilization.

There is no way to fix the wrongs of slavery or civil rights injustices. Just can't happen. But then you see situations like this college admissions scandal where a bunch of rich white people buy things that shouldn't be for sale. That type stuff just infuriates an entire economic class to which so many minorities belong.

Situations like Fergusen are a clear example of where we could be on a bigger level. That city didn't burn because of that cop/suspect interaction. It burned because there is a population who is pissed. There are so many who are unhappy and our world is telling us daily that it's okay to blame somebody else for the issues in your life.

Some groups of people just live on a knife's edge daily. Some idiots who spew racist hate because they think minorities should just shut up and move on. Some misguided people who look for anything they can paint as racist hate because they think that is a way to fix atrocities of the past. Every story about haves vs have nots just stokes a fire of animosity. A fire that will not go away.

All I feel I can do is live and raise my kids to treat every single person with the exact same amount of dignity and respect regardless of skin color or religion. I fear for the world they will raise their kids in because I feel things are getting worse.


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LoPo said:
But then you see situations like this college admissions scandal where a bunch of rich white people buy things that shouldn't be for sale. That type stuff just infuriates an entire economic class to which so many minorities belong.
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Serious question...Are you dumb?

There are famous black parents whos kids are involved in this scandal too.

You know why there is a racist perception in this state?

Please see the 3:45 mark in this video

 
RobDMB said:
My question in all of this: How many fans are gonna get lifetime bans when a particularly sensitive player points security at an annoying fan for being "mean" (without any evidence, or any actual racism/hate)? Is this gonna be exploited during playoff games to silence the crowd? Or is that just a paranoid idea?

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Nice strawman.

Report back when it actually happens.
 
fishonjazz said:
What if i said “atta boy burks! Great dunk bro!”
Offensive or not? I did call him boy in this scenario


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While I think it would be rather strange to say "atta boy" to someone who's not either a child or a dog, I'm not sure it'd be received as offensive. You aren't using it to denigrate or demean anyone, which is very different from how the fan that was banned used it.
 
Zombie said:
While I think it would be rather strange to say "atta boy" to someone who's not either a child or a dog, I'm not sure it'd be received as offensive. You aren't using it to denigrate or demean anyone, which is very different from how the fan that was banned used it.
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What did the fan say exactly? I watched the video and thought he said something like "you go boy" and then clapped. Sounds kind of encouraging if that was the context but again i couldnt make out exactly what he said. Do you know what he said? All i know is that he used the word "boy" and apparently regardless of context that is a word that is not ok to use. Never call your son boy because who knows who might be around to listen and how they will take it.

As far as my example of "atta boy", if i said it to someone like Burks who seems easy going and laid back he probably wouldn't get offended but a high strung intense guy like westbrook you just never know what may or may not offend him. Which is kind of my point in all this. Any and everything can be found to be offensive to someone somewhere regardless of intent.

No one has responded to the post i made about the experience stoked recently had. A black man thought that stoked's body language was racist towards that particular black man and the man confronted stoked about it. Stoked had no idea he was doing anything wrong at all. In this case not a single word was said by the offender to the offended and the offender had no idea he was even doing anything. Sometimes simply having white skin can be offensive apparently.
 
cowhide said:
Why do you need a list? Be kind to people and treat any human with respect. Why is this such a hard concept for people to understand? It is just not in Utah. Racism is an invention of mankind. All races can be racists, in America since white people have had the power and ability to institutionalize racism in the laws and culture they share a heavier responsibility addressing the culture of racism. Pretending like it doesn't exist or that blacks need to just get over it is not understanding our real history. Not understanding how the word boy has different meanings for a white person than a black person demonstrates how far we as a society still have to go. Any white person who doesn't understand this is either ignorant or lying to themselves.

It is pretty simple, be kind to people, cheer for your team and be respect to your opponent. No list is needed if you do this.
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And there lies the problem, not with white people, but with people who think racism has been institutionalized in our laws and culture.

In 2008, my former manager -- a white, male, BYU graduate -- said he voted for Obama "because he was black." I voted against Obama, not because he was black, but because I didn't agree with his policies. So, which one of us was being racist?

(Just to clarify, had Collen Powell been running for president, I would have gladly voted for him.)

I completely disagree with your premise, because racism will continue to exist until our actions are no longer based upon the color of one's skin. Acting like it doesn't is a nice place to start.
 
Hax0rs said:
Serious question...Are you dumb?

There are famous black parents whos kids are involved in this scandal too.

You know why there is a racist perception in this state?

Please see the 3:45 mark in this video

Click to expand...


Well that was something you don't see every day lol.
 
fishonjazz said:
I didn't say I need a list. I said a list would be interesting.

As for the rest of your post, I can be acting very very nice and still have someone else offended by what I said if I said a word that I didn't know was wrong.

An example I gave earlier was when stoked told a story about how a black man saw racism in stoked body language and confronted him about it. Stoked had literally no idea that the way he was standing/moving was projecting racism at the man. How do you avoid that?

A guy at my work mentioned how he would like fried chicken for a potluck/company party and there was a black man present. It got awkward. If the black man was easily offended and was looking for something that wasn't there he could have easily made into a big race thing since fried chicken is a stereotype for black people. Those are just a couple of scenarios/examples. There are more.

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Of course other people may be offended without you actually trying to offend them. I agree you cannot help those situations. I think that happens in everyday life without the racial component. I am talking about when people use words directly intended to demean or attack a person. Calling a black person a boy or heck even a white man is disrespectful. Any adult should know it. The fan who was yelling at Westbrook was intentionally trying to get him upset. He was acting inappropriately and deserved what he got. What worries me as an human being is how many justify "their right" to say what they want without having consequences for what they say. The internet has only made this problem worse.
 
Utesnjazz said:
This whole thing has been crazy and really bad.

Listening to David Locke today it is very apparent that the NBA views Utah as racist white people.

I honestly never realized this was an issue.
I have never heard a racist comment at a public event let alone a jazz game. Or at least I didn’t think it was.

Unfortunately we are going to be scrutinized because we are mostly white. We don’t choose are skin color, but it is what it is.

We need to play it safe and just don’t heckle opposing players or fans at all. Like Gail said let’s just Cheer for the Jazz instead.
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The ironic thing is that because Utah is being scrutinized for being mostly white is in fact having a racist view.
 
cowhide said:
Calling a black person a boy or heck even a white man is disrespectful. Any adult should know it.
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Good post but i disagree with the part i quoted. I have a mexican co-worker named victor. Literally everytime he greets me he says and i quote "wassup homie g?, You're my boy"
I never feel disrespected by that term of endearment.

It seems that the biggest thing that i have learned recently is that i am expected to have an inherent knowledge of what is and isn't offensive to every black person on planet earth since i am a white man. I obviously dont possess this knowledge so Im thinking the proper thing to do would just be to avoid interaction with black people as much as possible. Well other than the couple of black people that I already have an established relationship with for the past 15 years or so. Our relationships were established long ago before the age of offense we currently reside in and therefore would definitely give me the benefit of the doubt if i unintentionally said something offensive to them. Someone I dont have a relationship with already might not give me that benefit of the doubt so maybe avoidance is the best action.

What if many white people are feeling this way? Would that lead to more segregation and less interaction and therefore more racism? Is there any possible way that teaching people how to be less offended could lead to better communication and relationships? Idk, just a thought that will certainly get flamed.
 
fishonjazz said:
What if i said “atta boy burks! Great dunk bro!”
Offensive or not? I did call him boy in this scenario


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That's why this is relatively dumb. It's all about context and how you're saying it tonthat individual. What type of tone did that fan have, was he actually using the word boy in a racial sense or eas he just using the word? Very subjective indeed.
 
What about when a player makes a great play and his teammates yell out "Yeah boy!"? Should they get fined and ejected and subsequently suspended?
 
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