Will You Accept the Findings of the Muller Probe?

[Red]

You theys are so ridiculous. This is like crack for you theys isn't it? Just cant get enough.

I don't know about "theys", but I've never done crack. Maybe you can tell us what it's like to not get enough crack?

Let's see....

You stated Americans have interfered in the internal affairs of other nations, (and yes, I'm aware of some of that history), therefore Americans do not have the right to stand up and defend their country when it comes under attack. Got it.

You stated Americans should thank Russia and Putin for interfering in the central institution of our democracy. You tell us to thank them for attacking us. Got it.

You celebrated your seeming victory based on a summary that did not even include a single complete sentence from the actual Mueller report. Got it. "Total and complete exoneration" crows the president, and that's actually good enough for you. Got it.

Investigators from within Mueller's probe begin to leak disagreement with AG Barr, and you want it stopped, and stopped right now. Got it.

You never want the Mueller report to ever see the light of day, despite the citizens of your own nation being invested in a full accounting of that report. Evidence for obstruction was included in Mueller's report. You want the Barr whitewash. You do not want any of that report to ever see the light of day. You are fully invested in a coverup of an investigation that has been central to our national dialogue for the past two years. Got it.

You want everyone to just move on and leave Trump alone. After all, he has more important things to focus on, like wind turbines killing birds and windmill noise causing cancer. Of course.

 

[Hotdog]

You don't want the Mueller report released to the public. Got it.

Release it. I care about truth. If Im wrong Ill gladly admit it.

I wish everything the government did was transparent. Including conspiring with the media.

 

[Red]

I care about truth.

Lololol...

 

[Hotdog]

I don't know about "theys", but I've never done crack. Maybe you can tell us what it's like to not get enough crack?

Let's see....

You stated Americans have interfered in the internal affairs of other nations, (and yes, I'm aware of some of that history), therefore Americans do not have the right to stand up and defend their country when it comes under attack. Got it.

You stated Americans should thank Russia and Putin for interfering in the central institution of our democracy. You tell us to thank them for attacking us. Got it.

You celebrated your seeming victory based on a summary that did not even include a single complete sentence from the actual Mueller report. Got it. "Total and complete exoneration" crows the president, and that's actually good enough for you. Got it.

Investigators from within Mueller's probe begin to leak disagreement with AG Barr, and you want it stopped, and stopped right now. Got it.

You never want the Mueller report to ever see the light of day, despite the citizens of your own nation being invested in a full accounting of that report. Evidence for obstruction was included in Mueller's report. You want the Barr whitewash. You do not want any of that report to ever see the light of day. You are fully invested in a coverup of an investigation that has been central to our national dialogue for the past two years. Got it.

You want everyone to just move on and leave Trump alone. After all, he has more important things to focus on, like wind turbines killing birds and windmill noise causing cancer. Of course.

No.

I just dont understand you theys inconsistencies.

How can you be so upset about Trump being friendly with Russia, but upset if he isnt cosy with Mexico? How can you be upset about Russia exposing an unfair election process and at the same time complain about them creating an unfair election process?

 

[Hotdog]

Lololol...

I do. Thats why I dont like liars like CNN, WaPo and others. Its fake news.

I get my information from a secret source, and theys told me a long time ago the Russia scandal was a hoax created by Hillary and her conspirators. How do you think I predicted this all would happen with such ease and less work put in than you theys?

 

[colton]

That’s funny. Wasn’t he the one tweeting out just a week ago that the report “completely exonerated him?” Why wouldn’t you want a report that “completely exonerates” to be made public?

Logic is a pesky thing.

 

[colton]

I love it when Trumpers accuse others of believing in conspiracies.

You know, cuz trump actually won the popular vote and had the largest inauguration in history, Seth Rich was murdered by Hillary, and wind causes cancer...

And where is Obama's birth certificate??!??

 

[Harambe]

I get my information from a secret source

Finally something believable

 

[Gameface]

I do. Thats why I dont like liars like CNN, WaPo and others. Its fake news.

I get my information from a secret source, and theys told me a long time ago the Russia scandal was a hoax created by Hillary and her conspirators. How do you think I predicted this all would happen with such ease and less work put in than you theys?

So reddit and 4chan are secret sources now?

 

[Red]

No.

I just dont understand you theys inconsistencies.

How can you be so upset about Trump being friendly with Russia, but upset if he isnt cosy with Mexico? How can you be upset about Russia exposing an unfair election process and at the same time complain about them creating an unfair election process?

Here's a short primer on Russian "active measures", including an old description of the goals behind active measures, as defined by a KGB general. A product of the Cold War, they are still in use under Putin, with the modern addition of weaponizing the internet:

https://bigthink.com/paul-ratner/the-primer-on-russias-active-measures

You claim we should thank Putin and Russia for applying active measures against us in our 2016 election. You have claimed in the past that we should be friends with Russia. Yet, you will not acknowledge or recognize that they did not act as our friends in 2016. Or, do you honestly believe their thoughts were "let us help America, let us do what we can do to expose flaws in their system, so they can correct these flaws, so they can elect a leader that will make them stronger. Let's do whatever we can do to help them, and let's try to help other Western liberal democracies as well, whenever we can"?

Me, I'm thinking they applied active measures to hurt us, not to help us.

Or, as a retired FBI agent testified to the Senate Intelligence Committee:

According to Watts, there are 5 ways in which Russian active measures are designed to topple democracy:

1. Undermine citizen confidence in democratic governance.

2. Foment and exacerbate divisive political fractures.

3. Erode trust between citizens and elected officials and democratic institutions.

4. Popularize Russian policy agendas within foreign populations.

5. Create general distrust or confusion over information sources by blurring the lines between fact and fiction.

These are the things that you openly support when you tell people we should somehow be greatful to Putin and Russia. Basically, you side with our enemy. Sure it would be great to get along better with a nation that has been our #1 geopolitical rival for the past 70 plus years. But, they are not acting as our friend, and I'm absolutely certain they do not look on us, or the Western alliance, as their friend.

You basically support an effort to weaken our democracy, and you don't understand why others don't feel as you do.

You're free to turn your back on your own nation, and place the release of DNC emails as of greater importance then an attack on your own nation. I can't do that, and you will never convince me that I should.

 

[Hotdog]

 

[Hotdog]

Here's a short primer on Russian "active measures", including an old description of the goals behind active measures, as defined by a KGB general. A product of the Cold War, they are still in use under Putin, with the modern addition of weaponizing the internet:

https://bigthink.com/paul-ratner/the-primer-on-russias-active-measures

You claim we should thank Putin and Russia for applying active measures against us in our 2016 election. You have claimed in the past that we should be friends with Russia. Yet, you will not acknowledge or recognize that they did not act as our friends in 2016. Or, do you honestly believe their thoughts were "let us help America, let us do what we can do to expose flaws in their system, so they can correct these flaws, so they can elect a leader that will make them stronger. Let's do whatever we can do to help them, and let's try to help other Western liberal democracies as well, whenever we can"?

Me, I'm thinking they applied active measures to hurt us, not to help us.

Or, as a retired FBI agent testified to the Senate Intelligence Committee:

According to Watts, there are 5 ways in which Russian active measures are designed to topple democracy:

1. Undermine citizen confidence in democratic governance.

2. Foment and exacerbate divisive political fractures.

3. Erode trust between citizens and elected officials and democratic institutions.

4. Popularize Russian policy agendas within foreign populations.

5. Create general distrust or confusion over information sources by blurring the lines between fact and fiction.

These are the things that you openly support when you tell people we should somehow be greatful to Putin and Russia. Basically, you side with our enemy. Sure it would be great to get along better with a nation that has been our #1 geopolitical rival for the past 70 plus years. But, they are not acting as our friend, and I'm absolutely certain they do not look on us, or the Western alliance, as their friend.

You basically support an effort to weaken our democracy, and you don't understand why others don't feel as you do.

You're free to turn your back on your own nation, and place the release of DNC emails as of greater importance then an attack on your own nation. I can't do that, and you will never convince me that I should.

"According to Watts, there are 5 ways in which Russian active measures are designed to toppledemocracy:"

1. The confidence of our citizens in our government's ability to govern was already eroding and a big problem. That had nothing to do with Russia and everything to do with how our government governs. Should I just blame some country for how you view Trump, or do you stand by your own ability to have an opinion?

2. The problem with divisiveness has nothing to do with Russia or Trump and everything to do with Liberals and Liberal media. Nobody is forcing the fake news outlets to push fake news and divisive identitarian politics.

3. How about politicians stop being corrupt? What does Russia have to do with ethics of Hillary Clinton?

4. Liberals are the ones pushing to be like Communist Russia. Trump and conservatives are desperately trying to save the land of the free, while liberals actively try to turn it into a communist hell hole.

5. See liberal media. Reference: Russia Gate, Jussie Smollett, and Covington Catholic High.

 

[Red]

Should I just blame some country for how you view Trump, or do you stand by your own ability to have an opinion?

The "problem" has always been the inability of many Americans to see and understand what Trump represents. In a mass democracy, the creame does not necessarily rise to the top. Eventually, the lowest common denominator does. In our case, a reality TV con man rose to the top. I believe de Tocqueville saw and realized this was in America's future long ago, and he predicted this trend in his seminal work, Democracy in America(1835).

4. Liberals are the ones pushing to be like Communist Russia. Trump and conservatives are desperately trying to save the land of the free, while liberals actively try to turn it into a communist hell hole.

It sure sounds like you would have been a willing participant in the Second Red Scare of the 1950's. How sad that folks like yourself actually still think in these terms. It's pathetic, but it's your problem, not mine. Be like communist Russia? You have no idea what Russia is. It is a nation state. But, it's true characterization is a mafia state. Putin, plus the Russian intelligence services, plus the top oligarchs, plus the Russian mob are the 4 components making up this mafia state. And here you are, still stuck in the mind set of the 1950's. How completely unenlightened of you. I'm not surprised, but you have my sympathy, brother. You are a fellow American, just misguided.

 

[Jazzta]

Repubs don’t want to see the report despite claiming that it completely exonerates Donald.

Graham doesn’t seem too eager to know all of the details about the report. I’m sure he’d feel the same way if Clinton was being investigated...

 

[Hotdog]

The "problem" has always been the inability of many Americans to see and understand what Trump represents. In a mass democracy, the creame does not necessarily rise to the top. Eventually, the lowest common denominator does. In our case, a reality TV con man rose to the top. I believe de Tocqueville saw and realized this was in America's future long ago, and he predicted this trend in his seminal work, Democracy in America(1835).



It sure sounds like you would have been a willing participant in the Second Red Scare of the 1950's. How sad that folks like yourself actually still think in these terms. It's pathetic, but it's your problem, not mine. Be like communist Russia? You have no idea what Russia is. It is a nation state. But, it's true characterization is a mafia state. Putin, plus the Russian intelligence services, plus the top oligarchs, plus the Russian mob are the 4 components making up this mafia state. And here you are, still stuck in the mind set of the 1950's. How completely unenlightened of you. I'm not surprised, but you have my sympathy, brother. You are a fellow American, just misguided.

Here are the reasons I voted for Trump. In order

1. I feel like most politicians are either incompetent or crooked. Trump was throwing a wrench in the sytem. There was literally no one else running I cared to see president. When I say throwing a wrench in the system it means I see his flaws.

2. Watching people I think are crooked and stupid lose to him was to be honest, effing hilarious to watch. I still go back and watch the Republican debates for a good laugh. Probably some of the funniest stuff I have ever watched. Him fighting with Hillary was kind of cringy though.

3. He was huge underdog and more of the people I dont trust(the media) did everything in their power to manipulate the American people into doing what they wanted. I pulled for him for that reason too.

4. Was hoping he would doing something good for the economy. Which it looks like he has.



Those are my reasons I voted for him, and I suspect that its the same for a lot of other people. None of it had to do with Russia.

Over the last couple years of watching the left flame out it has just made me realize that it was the right decision. I didnt realize the left was so dar3m crazy. So thats why I defend him and bash the left now. Ive said it a 100 times. He isnt the ideal guy. He is just the only guy who stood up against the norms of politicing. Its been refreshing and weird all at tbe same time.

 

[One Brow]

1. I feel like most politicians are either incompetent or crooked. Trump was throwing a wrench in the sytem. There was literally no one else running I cared to see president. When I say throwing a wrench in the system it means I see his flaws.

Including the fact that he was more crooked than most of the Washington politicians before he was elected, and it has only gotten worse since?

4. Was hoping he would doing something good for the economy. Which it looks like he has.

In the since he has not destroyed it when it took off after 8 years of Obama, at any rate. Although, Presidents usually get too much credit/blame for the economy.

None of it had to do with Russia.

Perhaps you think propaganda has no effect on you. It does, as long as you are human.

 

[Hotdog]

Including the fact that he was more crooked than most of the Washington politicians before he was elected, and it has only gotten worse since?



In the since he has not destroyed it when it took off after 8 years of Obama, at any rate. Although, Presidents usually get too much credit/blame for the economy.



Perhaps you think propaganda has no effect on you. It does, as long as you are human.

Maybe Im not human, or I am the only person propaganda doesnt work on. Sometimes I wonder if this is all real. How crazy people act is nuts.

I believe the economy is doing so well and we skipped the next business cycle because Trump lowered the corporate taxt rate. But you would have to believe in Math to understand that.

I dont believe Trump is crooked. What else has he done besides collude with Russia in the dreams of Democrats?

 

[Stoked]

And where is Obama's birth certificate??!??

Tangent but why not.

So legit question. Does it even matter?

Barack was born to a US citizen so he is a US citizen. He could have been born on Mars to the same woman and he is a US citizen. The geography of his birth is irrelevant. Right?

 

[colton]

Tangent but why not.

So legit question. Does it even matter?

Barack was born to a US citizen so he is a US citizen. He could have been born on Mars to the same woman and he is a US citizen. The geography of his birth is irrelevant. Right?

Possibly. But possibly not. The issue of what a "natural born citizen" means (the phrase in the Constitution) hadn't been decided by the Supreme Court. Many, possibly even most legal scholars believe that it means a person who is a citizen from the time they are born, and to me that's the only reasonable way of looking at things. But others disagree, and that's not the only interpretation.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born-citizen_clause

 

[Stoked]

Possibly. But possibly not. The issue of what a "natural born citizen" means (the phrase in the Constitution) hadn't been decided by the Supreme Court. Many, possibly even most legal scholars believe that it means a person who is a citizen from the time they are born, and to me that's the only reasonable way of looking at things. But others disagree, and that's not the only interpretation.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born-citizen_clause

I’m with you. US citizen = US citizen

Basically people get to interpret it as is convenient.

Isn’t this exactly the type of legal questions the supreme court is supposed to resolve? Haha