The Caravan

[framer]

By that logic, you get hit by accidental gun fire, it's your fault for being in the path of the bullet.

Cars have the capability of killing pedestrians, not so much the other way around on most city streets. Cars bear more responsibility.

Mind you, it's good for the pedestrian to be prudent, just like you wouldn't walk in front of someone cleaning their gun. But there's a difference between prudence and responsibility.

If you decide to "protest" downrange on an open gun range, then yes, you probably bear some responsibility for being in the path of a bullet. You want to protest out in a busy street, it's dangerous, you bear some responsibility for what happens. If I jaywalk and get hit, there is a decent chance the driver will not be held responsible, especially if I do not get out of the way when I have ample opportunity to do so.

To claim this is the same as Charlottesville, where people were walking AWAY from a protest and a driver swerved to HIT them, you either have to be purposely obtuse or a moron. I don't believe that you guys are morons, so. . .

 

[fishonjazz]

By that logic, you get hit by accidental gun fire, it's your fault for being in the path of the bullet.

.

Your comparison works if you say I walk in front of targets at a shooting range.

I know that cars drive in the road. So if I don't want to get hit by a car then I don't walk in the street. Don't walk where the cars are driving.

I know that bullets will be flying towards targets at a gun range so if I don't want to get hit by them then I don't walk where the guns are pointed.

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[Red]

Back in 2017, a few states tried to pass measures that would protect drivers who injured protestors blocking roads. I remember this came up during the Native American protests over the pipeline in North Dakota. I don't believe any of the measures actually passed:

https://www.factcheck.org/2019/07/protections-for-drivers-who-hit-protesters-didnt-pass/

"The bill proposed in North Dakota’s House of Representatives said that “a driver of a motor vehicle who, while exercising reasonable care, causes injury or death to an individual who is intentionally obstructing vehicular traffic on a public road, street, or highway may not be held liable for any damages.” It also said a driver who “unintentionally causes injury or death to an individual who is intentionally obstructing” traffic “is not guilty of an offense.”

I just checked the original stories covering the Wyatt Detention Center incident. One protestor was taken to the hospital with what were described at the time as "minor injuries".

 

[Harambe]

Your comparison works if you say I walk in front of targets at a shooting range.

I know that cars drive in the road. So if I don't want to get hit by a car then I don't walk in the street. Don't walk where the cars are driving.

I know that bullets will be flying towards targets at a gun range so if I don't want to get hit by them then I don't walk where the guns are pointed.

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In my opinion, the fallacy in your take stems from believing that roads are to be used exclusively for cars. This simply can't be true. Measured the simplest way I know how, the oldest roads were around thousands of years before motor vehicles.

Shooting ranges are corded off to be used exclusively for projectiles, signs and fences put in place to keep people out.

These aren't similar enough to be used as comparisons.

 

[One Brow]

If you decide to "protest" downrange on an open gun range, then yes, you probably bear some responsibility for being in the path of a bullet. You want to protest out in a busy street, it's dangerous, you bear some responsibility for what happens. If I jaywalk and get hit, there is a decent chance the driver will not be held responsible, especially if I do not get out of the way when I have ample opportunity to do so.

I always thought a big part of gun culture was knowing where you were aiming and making sure there wouldn't be unintended hits. Perhaps that was my error?

Also, a driver being held criminally liable is different that the driver being responsible.

 

[One Brow]

Your comparison works if you say I walk in front of targets at a shooting range.

I know that cars drive in the road. So if I don't want to get hit by a car then I don't walk in the street. Don't walk where the cars are driving.

I know that bullets will be flying towards targets at a gun range so if I don't want to get hit by them then I don't walk where the guns are pointed.

To be honest, I'm not sure if you agreed or disagreed with my post. You didn't say anything I didn't say, but your context is one of disagreement rather than agreement.

I mean, we agree gun owners bear responsibility for their decision to fire, and car owners need to use their brakes, right? Curious.

 

[fishonjazz]

To be honest, I'm not sure if you agreed or disagreed with my post. You didn't say anything I didn't say, but your context is one of disagreement rather than agreement.

I mean, we agree gun owners bear responsibility for their decision to fire, and car owners need to use their brakes, right? Curious.

If I'm in the road when I shouldn't be and I get hit by a car then it's my fault, not the drivers.

The case being discussed, from what I understand, is that people were in the road when they shouldn't be and a vehicle struck them. Not the drivers fault imo.
Only time you should be in the road is when crossing the street using a crosswalk. And even when using a crosswalk you should always make sure the cars are stopped before proceeding. I see so many pedestrians that figure since they have the right of way they will be safe and they walk in front of vehicles with their heads down not even paying attention just expecting the vehicle to stop. The worst is in grocery store parking lots.

I never trust that the driver will stop. I make sure that they do before proceeding or wait until there is a big enough gap that I don't need them to stop. I mean I'm no match for a car or truck, so why act so unconcerned when you go into the vehicles territory. In my mind vehicles have the right of way. Since they can kill me I will go ahead and give them the right of way and wait my turn.

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[One Brow]

If I'm in the road when I shouldn't be and I get hit by a car then it's my fault, not the drivers.

If a car is stopped in the road, and hit in the rear by another car, is that the fault of the stopped car or the driving car? By every understanding I have, the driving car is expected to stop, or swerve, or otherwise avoid the collision. However, when the object in the road is a human body, you suddenly absolve the driver of the moving car of all responsibility?

How about when the first car breaks down, and the first driver gets out to grab something from the trunk? As long as the second driver only hits the first driver, but not the first driver's car, does that mean the second driver has no responsibility?

The case being discussed, from what I understand, is that people were in the road when they shouldn't be and a vehicle struck them. Not the drivers fault imo.

If the pedetrians jumped in front of the car while it was moving, I agree. Otherwise, it's the driver's responsibility to treat their vehicle like the potentially lethal machine that it is.

Only time you should be in the road is when crossing the street using a crosswalk. And even when using a crosswalk you should always make sure the cars are stopped before proceeding. I see so many pedestrians that figure since they have the right of way they will be safe and they walk in front of vehicles with their heads down not even paying attention just expecting the vehicle to stop. The worst is in grocery store parking lots.

I never trust that the driver will stop. I make sure that they do before proceeding or wait until there is a big enough gap that I don't need them to stop. I mean I'm no match for a car or truck, so why act so unconcerned when you go into the vehicles territory. In my mind vehicles have the right of way. Since they can kill me I will go ahead and give them the right of way and wait my turn.

Again, I refer to the difference between prudence and responsibility.

 

[Beer]

By that logic, you get hit by accidental gun fire, it's your fault for being in the path of the bullet.

Cars have the capability of killing pedestrians, not so much the other way around on most city streets. Cars bear more responsibility.

Mind you, it's good for the pedestrian to be prudent, just like you wouldn't walk in front of someone cleaning their gun. But there's a difference between prudence and responsibility.

If someone shows me a gun, tells me hes going to shoot it towards me, and I still stand in his way then yes thats my fault. Thats what happened here with the car.

Edit: It appears everyone else made the same painfully obvious gun range comparison but I'll leave mine up.

 

[fishonjazz]

If the pedetrians jumped in front of the car while it was moving, I agree. Otherwise, it's the driver's responsibility to treat their vehicle like the potentially lethal machine that it is.

We simply disagree.
I think pedestrians should treat the vehicle like the potentially lethal machine that it is and give it a wide berth and stay off the road as much as possible. Cars belong on the road. People don't.

If I'm ever going to protest then I'm not going to do it in a road.
Then again I feel like i have better common sense than most people so I understand that some people will be stupid and unnecessarily put their safety at risk by expecting automobile operators to always stop for them.


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[Harambe]

If someone shows me a gun, tells me hes going to shoot it towards me, and I still stand in his way then yes thats my fault. Thats what happened here with the car.

Edit: It appears everyone else made the same painfully obvious gun range comparison but I'll leave mine up.

You would have been shot. You did not pull the trigger, you merely had the power not to be shot.

You were still the victim of assault/homicide/manslaughter/murder/attempted.

 

[framer]

Here is the Drill:

Protesters block road.

People: Hey, I just need to get to work to feed my family and I have nothing to do with whatever your issue is.

Protesters: You are part of the problem. We raise awareness by making you uncomfortable. We cannot be effective with our message without making others suffer in some way.

People: We literally have NOTHING to do with whatever your issue is.

Protesters: Awareness comes through conflict!!!

People: OK I guess, here's some conflict. . .

Protesters: Oh Noes!!! Were being oppressed!!!! Muh Victimhooooooood!!!!!

The freaking James Harden floppers of the political world.