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The official "let's impeach Trump" thread

olden_undercover said:
No worries. We'd probably all get a lot further in these threads if we'd cut out the personal attacks. It might not be as entertaining, though. :)

I get you, but I have to admit I find the way Trump has carried himself during his presidency-- the constant lying, the aggressive antagonism, etc.-- leads me to not trust him. I'm not saying I am right or wrong; it's obviously part of his method of negotiation and managing expectations, and it's a style that resonates with some people-- politicians lie, after all, and some might view his openness about it to be a reason to respect him. I think that's a big part of the reason why there are so many assumptions being made, though: People put off by him believe his lying and antagonism are indicative of shady character that leads to criminal behavior, see coercion implied in the call transcripts, etc., and consider it justification to at least see if there's anything of substance there; people such as yourself find his behavior refreshing and welcome, believe he was standing up to the establishment, and view his interactions as what might be considered unorthodox diplomacy that was not necessarily inappropriate.

Most reasonable, politically moderate/neutral-thinking people (I like to believe that includes me) would say there isn't anything clearly impeachable in front of us yet, but the whole thing smells fishy enough to merit thorough investigation. I don't understand anyone who says he has obviously not done anything wrong and this whole thing is unnecessary-- that's as shortsighted, to me, at this point as saying he is definitely guilty.

Anyway, I guess time will tell, but I'll concede it's hard not to agree with you that testimony and evidence presented so far is not airtight-persuasive, and very much up for interpretation. I can see some of both sides of that interpretation, though, and I absolutely think we need to keep pushing forward until he's either absolved or convicted.
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Nice post and thanks.

My entire thing here is that I personally feel Bush was a war criminal and lied to get his war. I look at countless things we could've done a 3 year long investigation under Obama. Imagine what we could find if we had transcripts to Bergendol(sp), money shipped over night, IRS targeting Republicans, his involvement with Russia and spygate, him blaming Benghazi on a video, I could go on. I'm not saying he's guilty if anything but I'm sure if we dug hard enough there's something.

I think it's absolutely ascinine to think Trump is the first President to ever overstep his boundaries. At this moment the left has even gotten his lawyer and still not found anything substantial enough. To me this is a flat out which hunt and if Trump is removed it will continue. This is nothing more than political theatre. Hell I bet we could find plenty of dirt on Pelosi and her multi million dollar mansions off of her base salary.
 
olden_undercover said:
If there was, on the other hand, the whole country is better off not having a corrupt leader and moving on. Don't you agree?
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Well, let me put it this way. The democrats have investigated now for 3 years solid and have come up with nothing.
Nothing but made up crimes that they can't find one bit of evidence for.
So at what point do we say "You had your chance. No more"?
Or are we just going to have investigations for the whole 8 years of Trumps terms?
I am not even afraid of these hearings at all. I know what is going to happen. I said this morning that this ambassador would have nothing to say and would be a complete dud. The rest of them will too. And none of this is stopping Trump from being president and enacting his agenda.

Stock market set new records today. Oh, my portfolio!!!!!
 
porcupinetree said:
Well, let me put it this way. The democrats have investigated now for 3 years solid and have come up with nothing.
Nothing but made up crimes that they can't find one bit of evidence for.
So at what point do we say "You had your chance. No more"?
Or are we just going to have investigations for the whole 8 years of Trumps terms?
I am not even afraid of these hearings at all. I know what is going to happen. I said this morning that this ambassador would have nothing to say and would be a complete dud. The rest of them will too. And none of this is stopping Trump from being president and enacting his agenda.

Stock market set new records today. Oh, my portfolio!!!!!
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If Trump would STFU I think he'd be a lot more popular. To your point, I agree that this will once again go nowhere. Even if Trump is impeached, then what? The country will be in a terrible position while Trump is still filthy rich laughing his *** off. 3+ years, millions wasted, and nothing. What exactly has any of this accomplished? What is this current circus going to accomplish? Trump will still be president.
 
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porcupinetree said:
This whole charade reminds me of the Trayvon Martin/Zimmerman crap.
A whole year of the media making up lies, telling everyone that he was surely guilty of murder, many democrats joining in, all the photos of a 13 year old Trayvon, even Obama inserting himself into it.
And how did it all end up?
They held a trial and Zimmerman was found not guilty and set free.
The jury even said that they wanted to convict him but didn't have evidence and that the law was on his side.

Oh gee, So I guess all the screaming by the media was just a bunch of lies.

SO the democrats can scream all they want right now. Bring out witnesses. Make up more lies. Accuse the president of everything they can think of
and it will mean nothing in the end.
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Was it a bunch of lies? Really? I mean, justice is blind, and I understand how a lack of bonafide evidence resulted in Zimmerman walking free. But can you honestly look at that case and say to yourself, "Yes, porcupinetree, he was an innocent man, and a 13 year-old boy's death was the result of no wrongdoing"? That doesn't make sense, does it...?

But I do appreciate the comparison-- it's an interesting parallel. If Trump is found not guilty of any wrongdoing, it won't change the fact he's not exactly innocent of bringing all this suspicion and investigation of criminal behavior upon himself, will it? He could do a lot to change perceptions by simply not lying unnecessarily, or by not bullying people randomly on social media like a middle school-aged child. I personally have no problem with the amount of negative attention he's getting, because he's been absolutely begging for it for his entire presidential tenure.
JazzyFresh said:
Nice post and thanks.

My entire thing here is that I personally feel Bush was a war criminal and lied to get his war. I look at countless things we could've done a 3 year long investigation under Obama. Imagine what we could find if we had transcripts to Bergendol(sp), money shipped over night, IRS targeting Republicans, his involvement with Russia and spygate, him blaming Benghazi on a video, I could go on. I'm not saying he's guilty if anything but I'm sure if we dug hard enough there's something.

I think it's absolutely ascinine to think Trump is the first President to ever overstep his boundaries. At this moment the left has even gotten his lawyer and still not found anything substantial enough. To me this is a flat out which hunt and if Trump is removed it will continue. This is nothing more than political theatre. Hell I bet we could find plenty of dirt on Pelosi and her multi million dollar mansions off of her base salary.
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Oh yeah. For. Sure. But here's the thing: Bush, Obama, Clinton, Pelosi, etc., who may have been absolutely filthy to the core, at least had the good sense to know when and where to keep their mouths shut. Unfortunately, for all the good he may be doing, Trump is constantly picking fights-- both domestically and abroad-- and has now gotten himself into one he might not win. Is it justified? Only an investigation will tell us that. What sucks for him, and for us the American public, is that he chose to get himself into this mess during a period of history when he will probably not be treated very fairly in a deeply divided political environment-- at least half of our elected officials, not to mention career professionals like those testifying in this hearing, have been absolutely brutalized by his rhetoric, and they are actively seeking a way to get rid of him. He has also been a wrecking ball against allied relationships that have historically been very strong, and a LOT of people are not happy with him. Where past presidents may have been known by both sides of the political establishment to be dirty, perhaps the will to do something about it was not there because they otherwise behaved, got along with our allies, and got things done in a way that least marginally satisfied everyone.
 
olden_undercover said:
No worries. We'd probably all get a lot further in these threads if we'd cut out the personal attacks. It might not be as entertaining, though. :)

I get you, but I have to admit I find the way Trump has carried himself during his presidency-- the constant lying, the aggressive antagonism, etc.-- leads me to not trust him. I'm not saying I am right or wrong; it's obviously part of his method of negotiation and managing expectations, and it's a style that resonates with some people-- politicians lie, after all, and some might view his openness about it to be a reason to respect him. I think that's a big part of the reason why there are so many assumptions being made, though: People put off by him believe his lying and antagonism are indicative of shady character that leads to criminal behavior, see coercion implied in the call transcripts, etc., and consider it justification to at least see if there's anything of substance there; people such as yourself find his behavior refreshing and welcome, believe he was standing up to the establishment, and view his interactions as what might be considered unorthodox diplomacy that was not necessarily inappropriate.

Most reasonable, politically moderate/neutral-thinking people (I like to believe that includes me) would say there isn't anything clearly impeachable in front of us yet, but the whole thing smells fishy enough to merit thorough investigation. I don't understand anyone who says he has obviously not done anything wrong and this whole thing is unnecessary-- that's as shortsighted, to me, at this point as saying he is definitely guilty.

Anyway, I guess time will tell, but I'll concede it's hard not to agree with you that testimony and evidence presented so far is not airtight-persuasive, and very much up for interpretation. I can see some of both sides of that interpretation, though, and I absolutely think we need to keep pushing forward until he's either absolved or convicted.
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This is a great post. I think it will also apply to the next investigation, and the next investigation, and the next investigation of Trump. Each time, at every turn along the way, the anti-Trump crowd is going to assure us that this absolutely has to be the beginning of the end... and then it will go on. This entire era has been a crazy thing to witness.
 
JazzyFresh said:
I'll ask again.

What personal threats?
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From the July 25th phone call. The quotes are Trump's words. She's "bad news" and "she's going to go through some things". She found that last part threatening. I certainly would, lol.
 
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Joe Bagadonuts said:
This is a great post. I think it will also apply to the next investigation, and the next investigation, and the next investigation of Trump. Each time, at every turn along the way, the anti-Trump crowd is going to assure us that this absolutely has to be the beginning of the end... and then it will go on. This entire era has been a crazy thing to witness.
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I'm anti Trump. Never once have I said anything is the beginning of the end.
Quite the contrary. I think no matter what he does he won't face consequences for his actions. The country no longer holds the president to any kind of standard.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
This entire page has 6 posts by Zombie, fishon, Red, and Olden. Lol that’s all I can see. The rest are blocked.

that’s becoming the rule these days. I’ll enter this thread and an entire page will consist of 1 or 2 unblocked posters per page. Seems like trump is so guilty that the only people who want to argue are trolls.
 
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I can't find where anyone pointed this out as yet. If it has been brought up already, my apologies. Trump tweeted this at the start of her testimony today. Schiff read the tweet to the ambassador, and many are saying it constitutes witness intimidation in real time by Trump:





The thread is worth a read. Hard to find any Trump lovers replying.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/did-trump-engage-witness-intimidation-real-time/amp



The ambassador's reply:

"I don't think I have such powers, not in Mogadishu, Somalia and not in other places. I actually think that where I've served over the years, I and others have demonstrably made things better for the U.S. as well as for the countries that I've served in.

"Ukraine, for example, where there are huge challenges, including, you know, the issue that we are discussing today, of corruption, huge challenges. But they've made a lot of progress since 2014, including in the years that I was there.... The Ukrainian people get the most credit for that. But a part of that credit goes to the work of the United States and to me as the ambassador in Ukraine."

 
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The Thriller said:
This entire page has 6 posts by Zombie, fishon, Red, and Olden. Lol that’s all I can see. The rest are blocked.

that’s becoming the rule these days. I’ll enter this thread and an entire page will consist of 1 or 2 unblocked pages. Seems like trump is so guilty that the people who want to argue are trolls.
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Lol childish. Funny how you claim I'm blocked yet you always know what I'm talking about and then answer me indirectly. Its true cowardice imo. You seem like a smart dude but you also constantly talk down to every one and show true bigotry towards middle America. Especially towards uneducated whites, like you are any better. Even your own have called you out on your **** in another thread. It did confuse me how they accused you of pure hatred bit they tried to downplay it because it's against a certain demographic. If I were to say what you say about white America about immigrants I'd be a terrible human. Its astonishing that you feel it's any different. You are a bigot.

I will say no more.
 
The Thriller said:
This entire page has 6 posts by Zombie, fishon, Red, and Olden. Lol that’s all I can see. The rest are blocked.

that’s becoming the rule these days. I’ll enter this thread and an entire page will consist of 1 or 2 unblocked pages. Seems like trump is so guilty that the people who want to argue are trolls.
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Why doesn't it surprise me that you've got everyone whose opinion you don't agree with on ignore, and everyone who agrees with you on your feed? Why does it also not surprise me that you consistently find excuses to reply to my messages that you claim not to see? And why does it further not surprise me that you have some need to constantly brag about who you have on your ignore list? Enjoy your echo chamber.
 
Zombie said:


His testimony should be fun...
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Well, I guess. Wow...

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/15/politics/holmes-testimony-sondland-call/index.html

"(CNN)US Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland told President Donald Trump that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky "loves your ***" and that Ukraine was going to move forward with the investigation Trump had asked Zelensky for a day earlier, according to new testimony from a US official in Kiev who overheard the phone conversation.

David Holmes told lawmakers in a closed-door impeachment inquiry Friday that Sondland had told Trump the Ukrainian President would do "anything you ask him to" and that Sondland had confirmed the Ukrainians were going to "do the investigation," one day after Trump has asked Zelensky to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden, according to a copy of Holmes' opening statement obtained by CNN.
 
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