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Conley irrelevant...

Handlogten's Heros said:
Imagine having the best starting lineup in the league... then following it up with a wave of Mike Conley, JC plus a mix of those starters... if he's willing to do it there's no reason we shouldn't.
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I get the arguments, but who's to say Conley for Royce isn't still the best starting lineup in the league?
 
We’ve got a punchers chance at a championship this year. No one thought Toronto would win last year and look what happened. If LeBron or AD goes down we are as good as anybody. Conley can be best integrated into the second unit at first, when he comes back. Then, play it by ear.
 
David Hume said:
We’ve got a punchers chance at a championship this year. No one thought Toronto would win last year and look what happened. If LeBron or AD goes down we are as good as anybody. Conley can be best integrated into the second unit at first, when he comes back. Then, play it by ear.
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I think the results will be much better in the second unit. He gets more full time PG duties and plays less with Gobert, who he didn't mesh well with.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Conley can defend starting point guards... but then DM has to guard a SG or SF... So the Clips start Bev, PG and Kawhi… Conley will do fine on Bev, but now DM (our main creator) has a bigger responsibility on PG or Kawhi… unless you want Bogey guarding one guy.

Ingles and Rudy in the PnR is working great... DM is among the best players as a PnR ballhandler... so does Conley spot up then? Great... so does Bojan and Royce so not a big benefit there. Bojan is fine as a tertiary creator in that lineup... is Conley taking that role and pushing him down a notch. Does DM chill and spot up in the first quarter? Like its not ideal.

Royce to Conley is a big defensive downgrade. Royce provides the length and rebounding those units need.



Does Conley replacing Royce make the best 5-man lineup in the league better?
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Yup this

Inserting conley back into the starting 5 isnt ideal.
One replaces say ingles than one is taking away from his effectiveness with gobert and the other 4 starters, one replaces o neal and the starting 5 take a big dip in defense.

Have conley come off the bench, he played the majority of his career with scrubs in memphis so he should feel right at home playing with the second unit
 
NAOS said:
I’m still harboring some irrationally based belief that things will work out fine this season. Our offense has finally gotten more complex and better at creating the advantages our ballhandlers need to maximize their effects (I nearly hit my knees and praised Geebus when we started using double/stagger screens at the three point line). Conley can use these sets; and maybe he’ll also get the P-n-P with Bojan (please Geebus??).
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All will be fine, we now have the hidden gem of Tucker.
 
infection said:
I get the arguments, but who's to say Conley for Royce isn't still the best starting lineup in the league?
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So far that lineup has been negative... small sample... better competition. Its hard to get better than the best... +21.4 is currently the net rating and there is a large sample size.

What do we want Mike to do in the starting lineup...

Run pick and roll? Both DM and Ingles are much better this year and its not close.
Spot up? Royce is shooting 48% on spot up threes and Mike is shooting 40% on the same amount of attempts per game.
Royce takes the toughest defensive assignment... Mike is the worst defender of the 5 (okay maybe Bogey... but you catch my drift).
Royce is the second best rebounder in the starting lineup... Mike is likely the worst.

The argument that Mike helps unlock Bogey is cool, but Ingles helps unlock Rudy... so do we want to have Mike running those pick and rolls?
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
So far that lineup has been negative... small sample... better competition. Its hard to get better than the best... +21.4 is currently the net rating and there is a large sample size.

What do we want Mike to do in the starting lineup...

Run pick and roll? Both DM and Ingles are much better this year and its not close.
Spot up? Royce is shooting 48% on spot up threes and Mike is shooting 40% on the same amount of attempts per game.
Royce takes the toughest defensive assignment... Mike is the worst defender of the 5 (okay maybe Bogey... but you catch my drift).
Royce is the second best rebounder in the starting lineup... Mike is likely the worst.

The argument that Mike helps unlock Bogey is cool, but Ingles helps unlock Rudy... so do we want to have Mike running those pick and rolls?
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This all belongs in my CALL TO ACTION thread
 
infection said:
I get the arguments, but who's to say Conley for Royce isn't still the best starting lineup in the league?
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What I’d say about that is that what Royce brings creates consistency - defense, rebounds, and strictly great shot quality - whereas what Conley brings is going to come and go since his main contribution is firepower, but only when it’s there. He just is limited defensively, is not a rebounder and it’s not his role, and his job has traditionally been to take more difficult shots than role players. There will be nights with Conley starting that the Jazz are just crushing people on offense and it’s real fun, and there will be nights where he’s not having a great night and we’re going to really wish Royce was playing instead.
 
When people talk about defending the Clippers, I always wonder why they don't present the flip side of that match up. The Clippers can't stop our P'N'R with the shooters we have.
 
Jingled said:
We would be worse right now had we kept Crowder, he would still be shooting under 40% from the field and he would still be jacking up about 6 3 pointers a game at 32%. Our offense is so much better off without him.
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Crowder had to leave. He just wasn't a good enough shooter or defender to keep as a major piece on the team. I loved the guy though.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Right, but they also started Barnes and Pachulia over Iggy... because they needed a guy who could hit spot up shots and needed a guy off the bench that could handle the ball more... does this sound familiar to another situation?

Conley can defend starting point guards... but then DM has to guard a SG or SF... So the Clips start Bev, PG and Kawhi… Conley will do fine on Bev, but now DM (our main creator) has a bigger responsibility on PG or Kawhi… unless you want Bogey guarding one guy.

Ingles and Rudy in the PnR is working great... DM is among the best players as a PnR ballhandler... so does Conley spot up then? Great... so does Bojan and Royce so not a big benefit there. Bojan is fine as a tertiary creator in that lineup... is Conley taking that role and pushing him down a notch. Does DM chill and spot up in the first quarter? Like its not ideal.

Royce to Conley is a big defensive downgrade. Royce provides the length and rebounding those units need.

Conley played like a borderline all star last year... this year his percentages would make him the worst shooter in our current rotation... those numbers should absolutely go up. Manu was a fuggin hall of famer... he came off the bench because it worked better.

Does Conley replacing Royce make the best 5-man lineup in the league better?
Click to expand...
Conley instead of Ingles is sixth best line-up in the nba. Conley instead of Royce could improve it, yes. It's going to improve bench play for sure.

And I agree Manu as the sixth man worked better because he is a god with the ball in his hands and they didn't want one of Parker and Ginobili be forced to play off-ball. Sometimes it works.

Main reason I replied was Harrell-Williams example, though. It's the second time I replied to you about it. Williams would never start on a contending team.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Right, but they also started Barnes and Pachulia over Iggy... because they needed a guy who could hit spot up shots and needed a guy off the bench that could handle the ball more... does this sound familiar to another situation?

Conley can defend starting point guards... but then DM has to guard a SG or SF... So the Clips start Bev, PG and Kawhi… Conley will do fine on Bev, but now DM (our main creator) has a bigger responsibility on PG or Kawhi… unless you want Bogey guarding one guy.

Ingles and Rudy in the PnR is working great... DM is among the best players as a PnR ballhandler... so does Conley spot up then? Great... so does Bojan and Royce so not a big benefit there. Bojan is fine as a tertiary creator in that lineup... is Conley taking that role and pushing him down a notch. Does DM chill and spot up in the first quarter? Like its not ideal.

Royce to Conley is a big defensive downgrade. Royce provides the length and rebounding those units need.

Conley played like a borderline all star last year... this year his percentages would make him the worst shooter in our current rotation... those numbers should absolutely go up. Manu was a fuggin hall of famer... he came off the bench because it worked better.

Does Conley replacing Royce make the best 5-man lineup in the league better?
Click to expand...

Isn't Conley replacing Royce like the 5th best 5 man lineup in the league? That was done against better competition, no?
 
we are all pulling stuff out of our butts now. Bogey wasn't the first apple in DL's eye it was the dude that signed in Spain. Soon after things moved quickly: the trade for Conley, the trading of Favors, Bogey's signing, Davis and Green's signing, Raul waivers and NWG signing.
 
Hekate said:
Conley instead of Ingles is sixth best line-up in the nba. Conley instead of Royce could improve it, yes. It's going to improve bench play for sure.

And I agree Manu as the sixth man worked better because he is a god with the ball in his hands and they didn't want one of Parker and Ginobili be forced to play off-ball. Sometimes it works.

Main reason I replied was Harrell-Williams example, though. It's the second time I replied to you about it. Williams would never start on a contending team.
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This. Sorry, I found the data:

https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advan...ar Season&sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&CF=MIN*GE*100
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Against the clips how do you matchup with PG and Kawhi in the starting lineup...

Lakers will be a problem but you can hide Mike. They create some issues with the SF/PF/C matchups.

Denver- does he guard Murray, Barton or Harris? all are bigger than him.

Houston - Does Ingles or DM take Harden? Conley guards Westbrook or Gordon?

Dallas works if you can hide him on Dorian Finney smith.
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except there is this thing called setting a pick to force switches. let's say we have conley guarding finney smith, luka calls for smith, who is currently shooting 38% from deep at nearly 2 made per game this season, to come on top and set a pick for him. does conley go under that screen? does conley leave smith open and help whoever was guarding luka to double him? or even worse, switch onto luka? if luka wants to go at conley they'll find a way. just have finney smith coming onto the top of the key and force a switch.

with lakers/lebron is no different. danny green/bradley just comon top, and the next thing we know, lebron is on conley. unless we double lebron then he just feeds to green/bradley for a wide open 3. pick between two bottle of poisons.

also doesn't help with the fact that conley currently sits at bottom of the league in terms of defending the pick n roll.

https://stats.nba.com/players/ball-...ouping=defensive&sort=TEAM_ABBREVIATION&dir=1
 
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