Conley irrelevant...

[DasJazz]

I’m still harboring some irrationally based belief that things will work out fine this season. Our offense has finally gotten more complex and better at creating the advantages our ballhandlers need to maximize their effects (I nearly hit my knees and praised Geebus when we started using double/stagger screens at the three point line). Conley can use these sets; and maybe he’ll also get the P-n-P with Bojan (please Geebus??).

All will be fine, we now have the hidden gem of Tucker.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I get the arguments, but who's to say Conley for Royce isn't still the best starting lineup in the league?

So far that lineup has been negative... small sample... better competition. Its hard to get better than the best... +21.4 is currently the net rating and there is a large sample size.

What do we want Mike to do in the starting lineup...

Run pick and roll? Both DM and Ingles are much better this year and its not close.
Spot up? Royce is shooting 48% on spot up threes and Mike is shooting 40% on the same amount of attempts per game.
Royce takes the toughest defensive assignment... Mike is the worst defender of the 5 (okay maybe Bogey... but you catch my drift).
Royce is the second best rebounder in the starting lineup... Mike is likely the worst.

The argument that Mike helps unlock Bogey is cool, but Ingles helps unlock Rudy... so do we want to have Mike running those pick and rolls?

 

[NAOS]

So far that lineup has been negative... small sample... better competition. Its hard to get better than the best... +21.4 is currently the net rating and there is a large sample size.

What do we want Mike to do in the starting lineup...

Run pick and roll? Both DM and Ingles are much better this year and its not close.
Spot up? Royce is shooting 48% on spot up threes and Mike is shooting 40% on the same amount of attempts per game.
Royce takes the toughest defensive assignment... Mike is the worst defender of the 5 (okay maybe Bogey... but you catch my drift).
Royce is the second best rebounder in the starting lineup... Mike is likely the worst.

The argument that Mike helps unlock Bogey is cool, but Ingles helps unlock Rudy... so do we want to have Mike running those pick and rolls?

This all belongs in my CALL TO ACTION thread

 

[NUMBERICA]

I get the arguments, but who's to say Conley for Royce isn't still the best starting lineup in the league?

What I’d say about that is that what Royce brings creates consistency - defense, rebounds, and strictly great shot quality - whereas what Conley brings is going to come and go since his main contribution is firepower, but only when it’s there. He just is limited defensively, is not a rebounder and it’s not his role, and his job has traditionally been to take more difficult shots than role players. There will be nights with Conley starting that the Jazz are just crushing people on offense and it’s real fun, and there will be nights where he’s not having a great night and we’re going to really wish Royce was playing instead.

 

[NAOS]

I get the arguments, but who's to say Conley for Royce isn't still the best starting lineup in the league?

The data

 

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

When people talk about defending the Clippers, I always wonder why they don't present the flip side of that match up. The Clippers can't stop our P'N'R with the shooters we have.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

When people talk about defending the Clippers, I always wonder why they don't present the flip side of that match up. The Clippers can't stop our P'N'R with the shooters we have.

Does that change if we start/don't start Mike?

 

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

Does that change if we start/don't start Mike?

Can Conley argue against the "Ingles is our best PG" narrative?

Dude has to fit into what works, and the evidence is now overwhelming. As much as Snyder respects him, I think Quinn is still in charge of this team. And Quinn has the heart of a cold-blooded killer.

 

[framer]

We would be worse right now had we kept Crowder, he would still be shooting under 40% from the field and he would still be jacking up about 6 3 pointers a game at 32%. Our offense is so much better off without him.

Crowder had to leave. He just wasn't a good enough shooter or defender to keep as a major piece on the team. I loved the guy though.

 

[Hekate]

Right, but they also started Barnes and Pachulia over Iggy... because they needed a guy who could hit spot up shots and needed a guy off the bench that could handle the ball more... does this sound familiar to another situation?

Conley can defend starting point guards... but then DM has to guard a SG or SF... So the Clips start Bev, PG and Kawhi… Conley will do fine on Bev, but now DM (our main creator) has a bigger responsibility on PG or Kawhi… unless you want Bogey guarding one guy.

Ingles and Rudy in the PnR is working great... DM is among the best players as a PnR ballhandler... so does Conley spot up then? Great... so does Bojan and Royce so not a big benefit there. Bojan is fine as a tertiary creator in that lineup... is Conley taking that role and pushing him down a notch. Does DM chill and spot up in the first quarter? Like its not ideal.

Royce to Conley is a big defensive downgrade. Royce provides the length and rebounding those units need.

Conley played like a borderline all star last year... this year his percentages would make him the worst shooter in our current rotation... those numbers should absolutely go up. Manu was a fuggin hall of famer... he came off the bench because it worked better.

Does Conley replacing Royce make the best 5-man lineup in the league better?

Conley instead of Ingles is sixth best line-up in the nba. Conley instead of Royce could improve it, yes. It's going to improve bench play for sure.

And I agree Manu as the sixth man worked better because he is a god with the ball in his hands and they didn't want one of Parker and Ginobili be forced to play off-ball. Sometimes it works.

Main reason I replied was Harrell-Williams example, though. It's the second time I replied to you about it. Williams would never start on a contending team.

 

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

What are the odds that Bogey signs with the Jazz if we didn't trade for Conley, and kept Crowder?

 

[framer]

Right, but they also started Barnes and Pachulia over Iggy... because they needed a guy who could hit spot up shots and needed a guy off the bench that could handle the ball more... does this sound familiar to another situation?

Conley can defend starting point guards... but then DM has to guard a SG or SF... So the Clips start Bev, PG and Kawhi… Conley will do fine on Bev, but now DM (our main creator) has a bigger responsibility on PG or Kawhi… unless you want Bogey guarding one guy.

Ingles and Rudy in the PnR is working great... DM is among the best players as a PnR ballhandler... so does Conley spot up then? Great... so does Bojan and Royce so not a big benefit there. Bojan is fine as a tertiary creator in that lineup... is Conley taking that role and pushing him down a notch. Does DM chill and spot up in the first quarter? Like its not ideal.

Royce to Conley is a big defensive downgrade. Royce provides the length and rebounding those units need.

Conley played like a borderline all star last year... this year his percentages would make him the worst shooter in our current rotation... those numbers should absolutely go up. Manu was a fuggin hall of famer... he came off the bench because it worked better.

Does Conley replacing Royce make the best 5-man lineup in the league better?

Isn't Conley replacing Royce like the 5th best 5 man lineup in the league? That was done against better competition, no?