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Conley irrelevant...

we are all pulling stuff out of our butts now. Bogey wasn't the first apple in DL's eye it was the dude that signed in Spain. Soon after things moved quickly: the trade for Conley, the trading of Favors, Bogey's signing, Davis and Green's signing, Raul waivers and NWG signing.
 
Hekate said:
Conley instead of Ingles is sixth best line-up in the nba. Conley instead of Royce could improve it, yes. It's going to improve bench play for sure.

And I agree Manu as the sixth man worked better because he is a god with the ball in his hands and they didn't want one of Parker and Ginobili be forced to play off-ball. Sometimes it works.

Main reason I replied was Harrell-Williams example, though. It's the second time I replied to you about it. Williams would never start on a contending team.
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This. Sorry, I found the data:

https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advan...ar Season&sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&CF=MIN*GE*100
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Against the clips how do you matchup with PG and Kawhi in the starting lineup...

Lakers will be a problem but you can hide Mike. They create some issues with the SF/PF/C matchups.

Denver- does he guard Murray, Barton or Harris? all are bigger than him.

Houston - Does Ingles or DM take Harden? Conley guards Westbrook or Gordon?

Dallas works if you can hide him on Dorian Finney smith.
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except there is this thing called setting a pick to force switches. let's say we have conley guarding finney smith, luka calls for smith, who is currently shooting 38% from deep at nearly 2 made per game this season, to come on top and set a pick for him. does conley go under that screen? does conley leave smith open and help whoever was guarding luka to double him? or even worse, switch onto luka? if luka wants to go at conley they'll find a way. just have finney smith coming onto the top of the key and force a switch.

with lakers/lebron is no different. danny green/bradley just comon top, and the next thing we know, lebron is on conley. unless we double lebron then he just feeds to green/bradley for a wide open 3. pick between two bottle of poisons.

also doesn't help with the fact that conley currently sits at bottom of the league in terms of defending the pick n roll.

https://stats.nba.com/players/ball-...ouping=defensive&sort=TEAM_ABBREVIATION&dir=1
 
Yeah... Adding another good player to a good team will hurt it... Especially one that is known as a positive locker room guy and a team player...


We are playing well without him during the easiest stretch of games we have this year.
 
LogGrad98 said:
This. Everything I can find in the media is that the jazz had a superior offer (1 more guaranteed year... Huge for an aging player) and the only players I can find bojan mentioning by name are Mitchell and gobert. He also mentioned the entire roster, which at that point included Conley so there is that. I think the "bogie ONLY signs because of Conley" line is severely overblown.
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what is even more overblown is the idea that "conley will helps us go further in the playoff"

i mean, why not just look up memphis records in the playoffs? they are pretty much the embodiment of "high floor low ceiling" typa team that's always been hanging around but never ever came close to championship contention. so if you want that "came close, but not really" typa playoff experience, you bring in conley.

the closest they ever got was in 2013, in which they were simply fortunate to have faced a clippers team that had Griffin battling an injury all series long, then a thunder team that lost westbrook. and finally getting swept by the spurs in the conference finals. if you call that "playoff winning experience", then we for sure had a "championship team" in 2007 when we at least took 1 game from spurs, a team that eventually went on to win the championship that year.

i mean, maybe memphis just had a poor supporting cast that were holding conley back right? he did everything he could but simply was stuck with bad teammates, right?

right?

oh, in clutch moments during memphis' playoff runs, or more specifically, in win or go home games:

2011,
G5 versus thunder, Memphis trailed 1 to 3, win or go home. Conley went 3 for 12, luckily Grizz won.
G6, still trailed 2 to 3, conley again went 7 for 19 shooting in a Memphis loss and subsequently eliminated

2012,
G5 versus Clippers, trailed 1 to 3. Conley 4 for 10 in a Grizz win.
G6, 2 to 3, Conley 4 for 9(wow!) in a Grizz win.
G7, winner takes all, Conley went 2 for 13 in a Grizz loss, yikes...

2013,
conference finals versus spurs, trailed 0 to 3, Conley 4 for 13 in a SWEPT to finish up the best Grit n Grind run ever.

2014,
G7 versus Thunder, winner takes all, 8 for 14(WOW!!!!!!) in a Grizz loss.

2015,
G6 versus Warriors, trailed 2 to 3, win or go home, Conley? 3 for 13......

2017,
G6 versus Spurs, Conley's BEST playoffs performance ever??? 7 for 18 to finish G6 in a Grizz loss...

so a baller comes playoff? a clutch player that's gonna help us advance further in the playoffs??? in order to qualify for that category, you should at least put up: great productions on less efficiency, moderate productions on great efficiency, or high productions on high efficiency(superstars or HoFers). Unfortunately, i don't think Conley fits any of that. 16 pts on 41% shooting just isn't that good, period.

and yeah yeah, people can say conley helps us in areas other than shooting and scoring, but when we let Rubio go, what were we looking at really? to upgrade our shooting and scoring...

if you want playmaking, hustle plays or defense, why not keep Rubio, who's probably better than Conley in those areas at this point of his career? so i think the issue with the conley acquisition is that we took a step backwards in terms of size, defense, playmaking, rebounding without much improving(still improved, just not by much...) our shooting/scoring.

if we brought in someone like Chris Paul, who at least had some elite shooting/scoring records in playoffs, then that's a different story.
 
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JazzBird said:
I just think the jazzs obsession with trying to acquire conley the last few years was a case of not being able to see the forest through the trees and was unnecessary.
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Yeah, in retrospect I think you make a good point. If management had of realized what a potent combination Ingles and Mitchell were last season we could have saved our goose egg and had a lot more flexibility moving forward. Looking back though, I don't think either Ingles or Mitchell were the same players then that they are now. Last year, Ingles used to try my patience by passing up open looks in favor of the assist, even when he was wide open going to the cup he'd often kick it back out - drove me crazy! And Mitchell was just the opposite going for his own all the time, taking ill-advised shots, shooting a poor percentage. So I can't fault management for that I guess. My preference at the time was a bigger bodied pg on a better deal like D.Russ, or G.Hill - I admit I didn't see Brogdan being what he is. Still I think it made more sense from a financial standpoint. That being said, I don't think we've seen anywhere near what Conley can give us yet. So I prefer to reserve judgement until at least the end of the season.

PS Without Conley, I think it's safe to assume that we don't get Mudiay. Though you can argue that we could, I just don't think it happens in this player driven league. Mudiay has been a key piece in our improved bench play. He's also a great locker room guy, as I imagine Davis is as well.
 
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We’re gonna sign Gasol this summer... we’ll get to see some Conley/Gasol pick and pop.
 
JazzBird said:
Ok so trade crowder for something alot cheaper than conley whose not shooting much better this year than crowder.

Its not about whose the better player or who offers more its about who offers the most at what price.

Conley is making 32 mil this year is the highest paid player on the team and as the title of the thread suggests is irrelevant.

Jazz could do a lot more with 32 mil than what mike conley offers whether thats in the form of a couple bench guys or a starter.

Why not roll some of that money over to retaining favors and bring him off the bench at the 4 or 5?

Jazz could definitely use some depth at 4 and 5 with Ed davis being a bust and tony bradley being meh at best.

Instead the jazz get a depleted bench and a PG that doesnt defend well isnt shooting well and cost 32mil

Thats a poor allocation of resources that could have been used elsewhere.

In no world is conley worth 32 mil for the Jazz.
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You are missing the point, No Conley= No Bogdanovic and probably no Mudiay.
The Jazz starters with Conley were playing pretty well before he got hurt, it was the bench that was getting lit up and lost games for us.

Is Conley worth 30M? No probably not, but was it worth it for Bogey, and Mudiay? Absolutely.
Another thing getting Conley didn't really stop us from adding pieces, we still got Clarkson, Davis, Green, Bogey, And Mudiay. Maybe some of those were misses, but who cares the overall effect is that this team is far better and that is despite that Conley hasn't really played up to his standard yet.
 
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