Conley irrelevant...

[NUMBERICA]

Conley has been an above average defender his entire career. I'm not sure where you guys are getting this idea that he's a burden on defense.

He’s tiny, he’s not strong, he’s lost a step at the same time as the league has moved to bigger guards/away from traditional 1s. I don’t doubt his acumen or his effort. Against players like himself he’s great. But he shouldn’t switch onto anybody, it puts a dent in the defense.

Furthermore, this makes Donovan necessarily take a bigger assignment and guarded by a bigger assignment.

I’m willing to listen to the argument that he starts is that he gets pulled pretty quickly. And that’s after he (re?)acclimates coming off the bench for at least a few games.

 

[JazzyFresh]

He’s tiny, he’s not strong, he’s lost a step at the same time as the league has moved to bigger guards/away from traditional 1s. I don’t doubt his acumen or his effort. Against players like himself he’s great. But he shouldn’t switch onto anybody, it puts a dent in the defense.

Furthermore, this makes Donovan necessarily take a bigger assignment and guarded by a bigger assignment.

I’m willing to listen to the argument that he starts is that he gets pulled pretty quickly. And that’s after he (re?)acclimates coming off the bench for at least a few games.

He's a PG, he will be and has been guarding pg's. Will he get switched on? Sure but that is nothing new. He held his own before. Chris Paul is small and plays solid defense. I'm not comparing them besides to show that being small doesn't make or break you on the defensive end.

On your third paragraph, let me ask you all this. What outside of solid defense does Royce O'Neal do that isn't replaceable? 5-10 points a night isn't terrible for his role but its not great. He doesn't assist a whole lot for how many minutes he plays at 2.5(3.0 per). He's a solid rebounder but nothing amazing. How much is Conley playing instead of him really going to hurt us? Royce will still be available and be important but does taking him out and putting him on the bench really hurt anything? I think Conley more than makes up for what we lose.

Royce is plenty capable of doing what he does coming off of the bench. Conley is as well but I think he is a legit upgrade.

 

[NUMBERICA]

He's a PG, he will be and has been guarding pg's. Will he get switched on? Sure but that is nothing new. He held his own before. Chris Paul is small and plays solid defense. I'm not comparing them besides to show that being small doesn't make or break you on the defensive end.

On your third paragraph, let me ask you all this. What outside of solid defense does Royce O'Neal do that isn't replaceable? 5-10 points a night isn't terrible for his role but its not great. He doesn't assist a whole lot for how many minutes he plays at 2.5(3.0 per). He's a solid rebounder but nothing amazing. How much is Conley playing instead of him really going to hurt us? Royce will still be available and be important but does taking him out and putting him on the bench really hurt anything? I think Conley more than makes up for what we lose.

Royce is plenty capable of doing what he does coming off of the bench. Conley is as well but I think he is a legit upgrade.

What does Royce do besides be great at half the game of basketball, guarding four positions? He rebounds the basketball. He doesn’t waste possessions getting in a rhythm. The shots he takes he makes at an awesome rate. When he doesn’t, he does everything else. He does all the **** nobody else wants to but has to be done.

if Conley isn’t scoring, what is HE doing? I’ll remind you there is one basketball and we have two better ball handlers in the PnR than him in the starting lineup.

Conley raises the ceiling of this team but lowers the floor more. If he’s not playing an efficient offensive game he hurts us in the main lineup. Point blank. He HAS to be on.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

He’s tiny, he’s not strong, he’s lost a step at the same time as the league has moved to bigger guards/away from traditional 1s. I don’t doubt his acumen or his effort. Against players like himself he’s great. But he shouldn’t switch onto anybody, it puts a dent in the defense.

Furthermore, this makes Donovan necessarily take a bigger assignment and guarded by a bigger assignment.

I’m willing to listen to the argument that he starts is that he gets pulled pretty quickly. And that’s after he (re?)acclimates coming off the bench for at least a few games.

He shifts everyone up a spot... means DM can’t hide out on someone... means Ingles gets the toughest perimeter assignment and the change from Conley (who is fine on defense in a vacuum) to Royce gives us a lot more size and strength on defense. I don’t know why people don’t see it...

Go listen to the hoop collective pod from yesterday... Tim McMahon laid it out... he agrees that best use is Conley off the bench... said it’s a tough ask but it feels like the best way to use him... if we chicken out and don’t ask or try it I will be pissed.

 

[JazzyFresh]

What does Royce do besides be great at half the game of basketball? He rebounds the basketball. He doesn’t waste possessions getting in a rhythm. The shots he takes he makes at an awesome rate. When he doesn’t, he does everything else. He does all the **** nobody else wants to but has to be done.

if Conley isn’t scoring, what is HE doing? I’ll remind you there is one basketball.

Conley raises the ceiling of this team but lowers the floor more. If he’s not playing an efficient offensive game he hurts us in the main lineup. Point blank. He HAS to be on.

I want to make it clear that I like Royce and understand why he plays but I don't think he not replaceable. I also think you can say the exact same thing about any player in the league. Thing is, Conley has been consistently ON for 10+ seasons. I think you guys are basing his entire career off of a bad stretch where nobody was really playing well or in sync.

I'm just saying Conley can do everything Royce does, some at a much better rate such as scoring, passing, and taking a load off. Royce is a terrific asset but I don't think he moves the needle all that much towards being a championship caliber team. Is he helpful and have his role? Most definitely. Conley on the other hand moves the needle or as you said "raises the ceiling". That is where I'm getting at. Conley if healthy and integrated makes this team that much more dangerous.

 

[carolinajazz]

Conley if healthy and integrated makes this team that much more dangerous.

He can't stay healthy and he just can't fit in with our system.

 

[gregbroncs]

So we should put the burden of Conley’s D on the starters, AGAINST starters? Furthermore, our defense in the 2nd unit is already non-existent. Niang and Bradley offer little resistance to any driver with even a little bit of noteworthy speed.

The game continues to be which team ends up with the higher score than the other.

Not necessarily, I just think have a tiny lineup with bigs who don't hide the mistakes of others might be a problem. That lineup would probably be fine with Gobert behind them.

 

[JazzBird]

He shifts everyone up a spot... means DM can’t hide out on someone... means Ingles gets the toughest perimeter assignment and the change from Conley (who is fine on defense in a vacuum) to Royce gives us a lot more size and strength on defense. I don’t know why people don’t see it...

Go listen to the hoop collective pod from yesterday... Tim McMahon laid it out... he agrees that best use is Conley off the bench... said it’s a tough ask but it feels like the best way to use him... if we chicken out and don’t ask or try it I will be pissed.

I agree with this. Replacing royce with conley makes the jazz weaker over all.
Bring conley off the bench, if whats working isnt broke dont fix it

 

[JazzBird]

Not necessarily, I just think have a tiny lineup with bigs who don't hide the mistakes of others might be a problem. That lineup would probably be fine with Gobert behind them.

I assume you are saying the two bigs being bogie and rudy.

Bogie isnt really a big, he doesnt rebound especially well, hes not a shot blocker, his defense leaves alot to be desired so while he may be playing the 4 i wouldnt call him a big.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I'm just saying Conley can do everything Royce does

That is a straight-up lie.

 

[JazzyFresh]

That is a straight-up lie.

More of an exaggeration honestly. Sure Conley can't body up a 6'6" SF but he can do multiple things good to even great and that includes playing defense. We'll see. It won't surprise me one bit to see Conley come off of the bench but I think they have bigger plans for him and I think many here underestimate how good of a player he actually is and can be with a little time to get acclimated. I very well could be wrong though. For all I know he gets traded next week.

 

[jazfan23]

He is probable for tonight ...

I don’t think it’s a bad time either ... Mitchell and Royce have played some huge minutes ..

I’m guessing Mudiay will slide to the 2 at times when he and Conley are on the floor ..