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Poll: Should the Conley Experiment End?

Should the Conley Experiment End?

  • Yes, stick him on the bench and move him in the off-season

    Votes: 30 50.8%

  • No, keep him in the starting lineup and see if he turns it around

    Votes: 8 13.6%

  • Bear with him and be hopeful that he turns it around next season

    Votes: 6 10.2%

  • Play him but actively pursue moving him behind the scene

    Votes: 15 25.4%
  • Total voters
    59
sahlensguy said:
Personel wise it's not built around him though and that's the problem. No other great defenders, but we want to be a top team built around a defensive center.
If you have the best defender in the world you can stick him on an island like we have done, or build the world's best defense around him.

The best defender we've had to go along with him in this era is Donte friggin Exum...

We've never built around him.
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LoPo said:
I disagree 100%.

We all thought that our defense was so good led by Rudy that we acquired offensive talent to mask his biggest weakness which is offensive ability. We brought in a "better PG" to make his life easier. We replaced Favors to give Gobert space.

If we didn't build around Gobert, who did we build around?
Donovan? No, because if we did he would be our PG and Conley wouldn't have been targeted.
Joe? Nope

This team is 100% built around a pillar in the middle at both ends. It's shooters and average defenders because Rudy is there to clean up our messes. It doesn't work.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app
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you are both right and both wrong. the whole issue with this rudy team building thing is that the FO leveraged offense against defense, as if the two can not coexist. like by adding more offense you have to decrease the level of your defense. except there is this thing in sports called "two-way-player" who could bring you positive values on both ends. with Christian Wood being one and Richaun Holmes being another. we tried to build the team offensively around rudy by creating more floor space for him to maneuver in the paint, yet defensively we turned away from him by bringing a bunch of defensive liabilities to drain him on that end.

there are many ways to properly improve a team overall by adding more offense without hurting your defense, by the FO failed to find them. what they did instead was the zero-sum that really didn't make us better as a whole. in some sense we actually lost more than we gain and got worse, especially after the conley trade.
 
jom2003 said:
You are both right and both wrong. the whole issue with this rudy team building thing is that the FO leveraged offense against defense, as if the two can not coexist. like by adding more offense you have to decrease the level of your defense. except there is this thing in sports called "two-way-player" who could bring you positive values on both ends. with Christian Wood being one and Richaun Holmes being another. we tried to build the team offensively around rudy by creating more floor space for him to maneuver in the paint, yet defensively we turned away from him by bringing a bunch of defensive liabilities to drain him on that end.

there are many ways to properly improve a team overall by adding more offense without hurting your defense, by the FO failed to find them. what they did instead was the zero-sum that really didn't make us better as a whole. in some sense we actually lost more than we gain and got worse, especially after the conley trade.
Click to expand...
It's a damn shame that Exum didn't have a durable NBA body and that George Hill didn't stay here. The two best defenders at staying in front of their guy that Gobert has played with. Instead the James Hardens of the world completely own the point of attack drawing Gobert into space. It all gets exploited from there. They found no one to replace Exum or Hill.

Building around him on offense was always a lost cause.

But the defense broke the will of teams, and when it was great, it was enough. We should have focused on that.

Mike fn Conley...
 
jom2003 said:
you are both right and both wrong. the whole issue with this rudy team building thing is that the FO leveraged offense against defense, as if the two can not coexist. like by adding more offense you have to decrease the level of your defense. except there is this thing in sports called "two-way-player" who could bring you positive values on both ends. with Christian Wood being one and Richaun Holmes being another. we tried to build the team offensively around rudy by creating more floor space for him to maneuver in the paint, yet defensively we turned away from him by bringing a bunch of defensive liabilities to drain him on that end.

there are many ways to properly improve a team overall by adding more offense without hurting your defense, by the FO failed to find them. what they did instead was the zero-sum that really didn't make us better as a whole. in some sense we actually lost more than we gain and got worse, especially after the conley trade.
Click to expand...
The FO thought Rudy was good enough on the defensive end that we could succeed with average defenders who play great offense. They decided to lean more heavily on Gobert's defense so our offense could hit the next level.

It was a terrible decision. Rudy is amazing, but his numbers seem to have been inflated the last few years by having better defenders around him.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
LoPo said:
The FO thought Rudy was good enough on the defensive end that we could succeed with average defenders who play great offense. They decided to lean more heavily on Gobert's defense so our offense could hit the next level.

It was a terrible decision. Rudy is amazing, but his numbers seem to have been inflated the last few years by having better defenders around him.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app
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Who are these mysterious "better defenders"? All they did was effectively funnel the ball handlers into Rudy. Rudy did all the defending of the basket.
 
sahlensguy said:
Who are these mysterious "better defenders"? All they did was effectively funnel the ball handlers into Rudy. Rudy did all the defending of the basket.
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Ricky was good, but uneven at times. Gets deflections, gets loose balls and rebounds which is critical on defense. Jae was solid... worlds better than Niang, but not quite as good as his reputation imo. Favs was a flat out monster and helped Rudy anchor the paint and then took care of it when he was off the floor. Was also very good out on the perimeter on switches... at least for a big guy.

One guy I miss from a couple years ago is Jonas... he was much better in the Niang role and that guy played like his shoes were on fire. I'd say he was an average defender, but the effort was always there and he had more length. I'm really regretting the fact that I cut him at summer league and signed Niang (its a long story but 100% true).
 
I think this can be fixed in the offseason. We'll be hurting if Clarkson goes but if not.... do this:

DO NOT. AND. I. MEAN. DO. NOT. BRING NIANG BACK
Bring Favors back
Trade Conley for OPJ

Donovan/Mudiay (not a chance in hell I'd come back though)
Clarkson/Royce
Bogey/Ingles
OPJ/Favors
Gobert/Favors

Problem fixed.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Ricky was good, but uneven at times. Gets deflections, gets loose balls and rebounds which is critical on defense. Jae was solid... worlds better than Niang, but not quite as good as his reputation imo. Favs was a flat out monster and helped Rudy anchor the paint and then took care of it when he was off the floor. Was also very good out on the perimeter on switches... at least for a big guy.

One guy I miss from a couple years ago is Jonas... he was much better in the Niang role and that guy played like his shoes were on fire. I'd say he was an average defender, but the effort was always there and he had more length. I'm really regretting the fact that I cut him at summer league and signed Niang (its a long story but 100% true).
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Favs was the only very good defender on the list but they couldn't let them share the floor I guess.
 
sahlensguy said:
It's a damn shame that Exum didn't have a durable NBA body and that George Hill didn't stay here. The two best defenders at staying in front of their guy that Gobert has played with. Instead the James Hardens of the world completely own the point of attack drawing Gobert into space. It all gets exploited from there. They found no one to replace Exum or Hill.

Building around him on offense was always a lost cause.

But the defense broke the will of teams, and when it was great, it was enough. We should have focused on that.

Mike fn Conley...
Click to expand...

I'd like to get the full story on Hill... I loved him. I think the going price was 4/80M which would have been and overpay, but he's been good and he's been mostly healthy. Would have almost lived up to that deal imo… add in all the assets we could have retained (it would be like 3 firsts). I think they weren't happy with him not playing in the GS series which I don't blame him... he was a free agent and NBA teams doctors have screwed guys over all the time.. we were never going to win that series. It may have been more than that... not sure how much influence he had on the Hayward, Lyles Indiana boys. He'd be a lovely fit next to DM.

That in season extension negotiation was so weird.
 
sahlensguy said:
Favs was the only very good defender on the list but they couldn't let them share the floor I guess.
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Ricky was very good most nice... every 10 games or so he'd get cooked pretty hard or gamble too much... he deserves some due... he's really disruptive either drawing offensive fouls, getting deflections, or loose balls. Can't tell you how many games this year where I have come away thinking... we got zero loose balls tonight.
 
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