Poll: Should the Conley Experiment End?

[Jazzta]

This article made me throw up in my mouth a little bit. Is this really the problem? Scenes of Dumb and dumber gagging...

Holy F that’s all I needed to see.

 

[jom2003]

Personel wise it's not built around him though and that's the problem. No other great defenders, but we want to be a top team built around a defensive center.
If you have the best defender in the world you can stick him on an island like we have done, or build the world's best defense around him.

The best defender we've had to go along with him in this era is Donte friggin Exum...

We've never built around him.

I disagree 100%.

We all thought that our defense was so good led by Rudy that we acquired offensive talent to mask his biggest weakness which is offensive ability. We brought in a "better PG" to make his life easier. We replaced Favors to give Gobert space.

If we didn't build around Gobert, who did we build around?
Donovan? No, because if we did he would be our PG and Conley wouldn't have been targeted.
Joe? Nope

This team is 100% built around a pillar in the middle at both ends. It's shooters and average defenders because Rudy is there to clean up our messes. It doesn't work.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app

you are both right and both wrong. the whole issue with this rudy team building thing is that the FO leveraged offense against defense, as if the two can not coexist. like by adding more offense you have to decrease the level of your defense. except there is this thing in sports called "two-way-player" who could bring you positive values on both ends. with Christian Wood being one and Richaun Holmes being another. we tried to build the team offensively around rudy by creating more floor space for him to maneuver in the paint, yet defensively we turned away from him by bringing a bunch of defensive liabilities to drain him on that end.

there are many ways to properly improve a team overall by adding more offense without hurting your defense, by the FO failed to find them. what they did instead was the zero-sum that really didn't make us better as a whole. in some sense we actually lost more than we gain and got worse, especially after the conley trade.

 

[sahlensguy]

You are both right and both wrong. the whole issue with this rudy team building thing is that the FO leveraged offense against defense, as if the two can not coexist. like by adding more offense you have to decrease the level of your defense. except there is this thing in sports called "two-way-player" who could bring you positive values on both ends. with Christian Wood being one and Richaun Holmes being another. we tried to build the team offensively around rudy by creating more floor space for him to maneuver in the paint, yet defensively we turned away from him by bringing a bunch of defensive liabilities to drain him on that end.

there are many ways to properly improve a team overall by adding more offense without hurting your defense, by the FO failed to find them. what they did instead was the zero-sum that really didn't make us better as a whole. in some sense we actually lost more than we gain and got worse, especially after the conley trade.

It's a damn shame that Exum didn't have a durable NBA body and that George Hill didn't stay here. The two best defenders at staying in front of their guy that Gobert has played with. Instead the James Hardens of the world completely own the point of attack drawing Gobert into space. It all gets exploited from there. They found no one to replace Exum or Hill.

Building around him on offense was always a lost cause.

But the defense broke the will of teams, and when it was great, it was enough. We should have focused on that.

Mike fn Conley...

 

[LoPo]

you are both right and both wrong. the whole issue with this rudy team building thing is that the FO leveraged offense against defense, as if the two can not coexist. like by adding more offense you have to decrease the level of your defense. except there is this thing in sports called "two-way-player" who could bring you positive values on both ends. with Christian Wood being one and Richaun Holmes being another. we tried to build the team offensively around rudy by creating more floor space for him to maneuver in the paint, yet defensively we turned away from him by bringing a bunch of defensive liabilities to drain him on that end.

there are many ways to properly improve a team overall by adding more offense without hurting your defense, by the FO failed to find them. what they did instead was the zero-sum that really didn't make us better as a whole. in some sense we actually lost more than we gain and got worse, especially after the conley trade.

The FO thought Rudy was good enough on the defensive end that we could succeed with average defenders who play great offense. They decided to lean more heavily on Gobert's defense so our offense could hit the next level.

It was a terrible decision. Rudy is amazing, but his numbers seem to have been inflated the last few years by having better defenders around him.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[sahlensguy]

The FO thought Rudy was good enough on the defensive end that we could succeed with average defenders who play great offense. They decided to lean more heavily on Gobert's defense so our offense could hit the next level.

It was a terrible decision. Rudy is amazing, but his numbers seem to have been inflated the last few years by having better defenders around him.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app

Who are these mysterious "better defenders"? All they did was effectively funnel the ball handlers into Rudy. Rudy did all the defending of the basket.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Who are these mysterious "better defenders"? All they did was effectively funnel the ball handlers into Rudy. Rudy did all the defending of the basket.

Ricky was good, but uneven at times. Gets deflections, gets loose balls and rebounds which is critical on defense. Jae was solid... worlds better than Niang, but not quite as good as his reputation imo. Favs was a flat out monster and helped Rudy anchor the paint and then took care of it when he was off the floor. Was also very good out on the perimeter on switches... at least for a big guy.

One guy I miss from a couple years ago is Jonas... he was much better in the Niang role and that guy played like his shoes were on fire. I'd say he was an average defender, but the effort was always there and he had more length. I'm really regretting the fact that I cut him at summer league and signed Niang (its a long story but 100% true).

 

[Shad]

I think this can be fixed in the offseason. We'll be hurting if Clarkson goes but if not.... do this:

DO NOT. AND. I. MEAN. DO. NOT. BRING NIANG BACK
Bring Favors back
Trade Conley for OPJ

Donovan/Mudiay (not a chance in hell I'd come back though)
Clarkson/Royce
Bogey/Ingles
OPJ/Favors
Gobert/Favors

Problem fixed.

 

[sahlensguy]

Ricky was good, but uneven at times. Gets deflections, gets loose balls and rebounds which is critical on defense. Jae was solid... worlds better than Niang, but not quite as good as his reputation imo. Favs was a flat out monster and helped Rudy anchor the paint and then took care of it when he was off the floor. Was also very good out on the perimeter on switches... at least for a big guy.

One guy I miss from a couple years ago is Jonas... he was much better in the Niang role and that guy played like his shoes were on fire. I'd say he was an average defender, but the effort was always there and he had more length. I'm really regretting the fact that I cut him at summer league and signed Niang (its a long story but 100% true).

Favs was the only very good defender on the list but they couldn't let them share the floor I guess.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

It's a damn shame that Exum didn't have a durable NBA body and that George Hill didn't stay here. The two best defenders at staying in front of their guy that Gobert has played with. Instead the James Hardens of the world completely own the point of attack drawing Gobert into space. It all gets exploited from there. They found no one to replace Exum or Hill.

Building around him on offense was always a lost cause.

But the defense broke the will of teams, and when it was great, it was enough. We should have focused on that.

Mike fn Conley...

I'd like to get the full story on Hill... I loved him. I think the going price was 4/80M which would have been and overpay, but he's been good and he's been mostly healthy. Would have almost lived up to that deal imo… add in all the assets we could have retained (it would be like 3 firsts). I think they weren't happy with him not playing in the GS series which I don't blame him... he was a free agent and NBA teams doctors have screwed guys over all the time.. we were never going to win that series. It may have been more than that... not sure how much influence he had on the Hayward, Lyles Indiana boys. He'd be a lovely fit next to DM.

That in season extension negotiation was so weird.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Favs was the only very good defender on the list but they couldn't let them share the floor I guess.

Ricky was very good most nice... every 10 games or so he'd get cooked pretty hard or gamble too much... he deserves some due... he's really disruptive either drawing offensive fouls, getting deflections, or loose balls. Can't tell you how many games this year where I have come away thinking... we got zero loose balls tonight.

 

[Gobzilla]

Sit Mike and bury his career. Only way he opts out.

This right here is your only chance to get rid of him next year. No one is gonna trade for him, lol.

 

[sahlensguy]

This right here is your only chance to get rid of him next year. No one is gonna trade for him, lol.

It's the only chance, and ironically it's what's best for this team right now.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

This right here is your only chance to get rid of him next year. No one is gonna trade for him, lol.

He's tradeable... a lot depends on how he finishes the year. He's still useful as a bench option. He's better than Mudiay... I trust him a lot more as a decision maker and ball handler. Mudiay gets hot and can go on some runs, but I still don't fully trust his jumper.

The Knicks seem like the landing spot if the team decides to pivot. Mike on a one year deal would bring some respectability to their program. They need to build that to have a prayer of developing their young dudes and landing a big free agent the next couple years. They could help us open up some cap space, but the timing on a deal like that is tricky.

There will also likely be the Horford option... I think we'd get assets in that swap as well because the Horford deal is stinky... Al isn't washed and routinely levels up in the playoffs. I think you could either get a couple firsts or Josh Richardson in that deal.

 

[sahlensguy]

He's tradeable... a lot depends on how he finishes the year. He's still useful as a bench option. He's better than Mudiay... I trust him a lot more as a decision maker and ball handler. Mudiay gets hot and can go on some runs, but I still don't fully trust his jumper.

The Knicks seem like the landing spot if the team decides to pivot. Mike on a one year deal would bring some respectability to their program. They need to build that to have a prayer of developing their young dudes and landing a big free agent the next couple years. They could help us open up some cap space, but the timing on a deal like that is tricky.

There will also likely be the Horford option... I think we'd get assets in that swap as well because the Horford deal is stinky... Al isn't washed and routinely levels up in the playoffs. I think you could either get a couple firsts or Josh Richardson in that deal.

I'd rather Force Mike's hand to opt out then to try to trade him with the possibility of him re-upping with us.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

This right here is your only chance to get rid of him next year. No one is gonna trade for him, lol.

It's the only chance, and ironically it's what's best for this team right now.

Benching him would kill his market value for us and him... Only way he opts out is if he plays somewhat better and knows he has a deal to make some of that back... say like NY would give him 2 years and 40M and he prefers that market.

He's not opting out either way... you continue to play him but do it as a bench piece. He still helps in that role. He is one of the main problems... but not the only problem.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I'd rather Force Mike's hand to opt out then to try to trade him with the possibility of him re-upping with us.

Benching him will have the opposite effect and be seen as terrible organizational move... if your car runs out of gas you don't role it down a hill and set it on fire. You fix the problem in the most rational way.

 

[sahlensguy]

Benching him will have the opposite effect and be seen as terrible organizational move... if your car runs out of gas you don't role it down a hill and set it on fire. You fix the problem in the most rational way.

That depends on the car. You got to know when to hold them, fold them and when to walk away. Benching Conley for the rest of his Utah career, would make him want to opt out. Wouldn't it?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

That depends on the car. You got to know when to hold them, fold them and when to walk away. Benching Conley for the rest of his Utah career, would make him want to opt out. Wouldn't it?

No... that's not how it works. It would be less likely that he opts out. His market value would be completely tanked. Maybe he plays okayish and wants to jump to a different contender... He might opt out and we could sign and trade him... maybe he gets a 2 year 30M deal and makes some of his money back.

Regardless of what happens I think he has a 95% of him opting in.

 

[sahlensguy]

No... that's not how it works. It would be less likely that he opts out. His market value would be completely tanked. Maybe he plays okayish and wants to jump to a different contender... He might opt out and we could sign and trade him... maybe he gets a 2 year 30M deal and makes some of his money back.

Regardless of what happens I think he has a 95% of him opting in.

No... that's not how it works. It would be less likely that he opts out. His market value would be completely tanked. Maybe he plays okayish and wants to jump to a different contender... He might opt out and we could sign and trade him... maybe he gets a 2 year 30M deal and makes some of his money back.

Regardless of what happens I think he has a 95% of him opting in.

That's just your opinion though. If Mike would sit on the bench the remainder of this year. He could:

A) opt in next year. Collect his $30 mil. Sit the bench next year as well. NBA career done. Or...

B) opt out of next year's Jazz contract and sign and play for a few more years to come.

He'd want B imo.

 

[slc]

He just won NBA teammate of the year award
This is how the Jazz might treat him?
Terrible way to end Conleys career