Game Thread August 30, 2020: Nuggets at Jazz - Game 6

[jom2003]

The dude is shooting 57% from the field and 61% 3 with incredible consistency through 4 games. He's doing exactly what he was brought to Utah to do. His TS% is 77.

yeah but only on 13 attempts a game. As our secondary scoring, he gotta be able increase to at least 15 shots a game. those 15-20 pts a game simply won't be enough to fill in the gap left by DM when he's off the court for a rest.

if we double Murray in G7 to force the ball out of his hand, rest assured Jokic will take the matter in his own hand and drop 30+ to put us out of the misery. can the same be said about Conley if Denver is to double DM and let Conley beat them?

 

[jom2003]

The dude is shooting 57% from the field and 61% 3 with incredible consistency through 4 games. He's doing exactly what he was brought to Utah to do. His TS% is 77.

also BTW, Niang is currently 50/40 on 63% TS. But he kills us on other areas so much to the point of him needing at least 15pts a game to even justify him being on the court.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I think we could have gotten a different guy and I am puzzled why we felt we needed a full fledged point guard next to DM.

Bojan being hurt sucks... and you are right the other moves bombed. I just wonder what we could have done had we viewed DM as a pg and focused on bringing either a big pg to play alongside him like Brogdon or getting a wing.

We also seem to lose Ingles when we play him with DM and Mike... size wise I think Joe makes more sense as a starter. Mike has been very good in the series but having him and DM puts us at a size disadvantage and Royce/Ingles are solid on defense but not good enough to make up for the size issues.

The Jazz needed shooters. The Jazz got the elite of elite in C&S who are also all-around offensive talents. The idea that the Jazz went away from the idea of Mitchell being a PG is ridiculous. They surrounded him with shooters to increase the effectiveness of his drive and kick game and give him space to operate.

They tried to put athleticism and defense on the bench, but those dudes just busted. **** happens. I think the bench will almost certainly be better next year as long as they dont lose Clarkson.

And the Ingles stuff is completely on Ingles. The Jazz can't bend lineups just to suit Ingles. The dude has to be a better self-starter and not let himself float through games without being aggressive.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

It really does hurt that Ingles is having another horrendous shooting playoffs (outside of the 1st two games). I thought covid break might help him with fatigue from the season, but I guess he's is emotionally down in the dumps being away from his family. I think the lack of crowd motivation has hurt his game as well. Dude really thrives off the crowd, both talking **** to him and pumping him up.

He's invisible in the starting lineup... he doesn't touch the ball when we go iso like we did last night. I think the crowd does kind of feed him... but all year the Conley, Ingles, DM dynamic hasn't worked as well as I had hoped.

 

[DasJazz]

I hate you Royce oh yes I do
They say you're a defensive stopper
we know that isn't true
Murray torched you
Hell even Morris too
You think you're safe cause you're donovan's friend
but have you seen they way he looks at Tuckers end?
Why did we sign you for four years
When we could have locked you up for one
You used to be an overachiever
Now you're no fun

So true. Alas, if I say this I get torched on the forum. Haha!

 

[Bawse Dawg]

The Conley Ingles stuff appears to be real.

Ingles has been awful since Conley got back. To many cooks.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

also BTW, Niang is currently 50/40 on 63% TS. But he kills us on other areas so much to the point of him needing at least 15pts a game to even justify him being on the court.

I dont think it's that simple. Niang offers more than just hitting shots. His presence on the court does help the offense.

So far this series, according to Bball reference, the Jazz offensive rating has been 130 with Niang on the court and 125 with him off. The Nuggets offensive rating only increase by 0.3 with Niang on the court.

Of course all this stuff is small sample size and there is a lot of context to everything. Morgan's on/off numbers are pretty insane for this series. My point is just that I don't think Niang has been an issue this series at all. He's playing about as well as you can realistically expect outside of hitting every 3pt shot he takes.

Like I think last game Torrey Craig scored on him going to the rim with kind of a lucky shot. Obviously Craig was emboldened by having a guy like Niang on him, but it was still overall good defense and Utah forced a shot they'd happily surrender every-time down the court, a contested floater from a guy who isnt a scorer.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The Jazz needed shooters. The Jazz got the elite of elite in C&S who are also all-around offensive talents. The idea that the Jazz went away from the idea of Mitchell being a PG is ridiculous. They surrounded him with shooters to increase the effectiveness of his drive and kick game and give him space to operate.

They tried to put athleticism and defense on the bench, but those dudes just busted. **** happens. I think the bench will almost certainly be better next year as long as they dont lose Clarkson.

And the Ingles stuff is completely on Ingles. The Jazz can't bend lineups just to suit Ingles. The dude has to be a better self-starter and not let himself float through games without being aggressive.

You can call them whatever you want PG/SG, Wing... I just want our main unit not to have someone smaller than DM. You can find C&S guys that are bigger. Mike played with the ball in his hands a lot in Memphis so he didn't do a ton of catch and shoot.

The bench is the biggest issue obvi. Would not be as big an issue if we had Bojan.

Ingles should be better and should know by now that when he has air space he needs to fire. He's the guy that likely wants to leave the bubble the most... he's admitted to wanting the season to end the year that Jacob was diagnosed with autism. He's a family man first and I'm sure this is awful for him. I hope he finds some fire though.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I dont think it's that simple. Niang offers more than just hitting shots. His presence on the court does help the offense.

So far this series, according to Bball reference, the Jazz offensive rating has been 130 with Niang on the court and 125 with him off. The Nuggets offensive rating only increase by 0.3 with Niang on the court.

Of course all this stuff is small sample size and there is a lot of context to everything. Morgan's on/off numbers are pretty insane for this series. My point is just that I don't think Niang has been an issue this series at all. He's playing about as well as you can realistically expect outside of hitting every 3pt shot he takes.

Like I think last game Torrey Craig scored on him going to the rim with kind of a lucky shot. Obviously Craig was emboldened by having a guy like Niang on him, but it was still overall good defense and Utah forced a shot they'd happily surrender every-time down the court, a contested floater from a guy who isnt a scorer.

I think Niang is more a 12 minute guy than a 20 minute guy but he'd played well enough last night to justify being out there a little longer and we don't have a ton of options. I think Morgan should play a little more.. I kind of like him mixed with the starting unit for a few minutes. Maybe slide Ingles to the bench and get him more aligned with Porter's minutes so he can pick on him a little.

 

[jom2003]

I dont think it's that simple. Niang offers more than just hitting shots. His presence on the court does help the offense.

So far this series, according to Bball reference, the Jazz offensive rating has been 130 with Niang on the court and 125 with him off. The Nuggets offensive rating only increase by 0.3 with Niang on the court.

Of course all this stuff is small sample size and there is a lot of context to everything. Morgan's on/off numbers are pretty insane for this series. My point is just that I don't think Niang has been an issue this series at all. He's playing about as well as you can realistically expect outside of hitting every 3pt shot he takes.

Like I think last game Torrey Craig scored on him going to the rim with kind of a lucky shot. Obviously Craig was emboldened by having a guy like Niang on him, but it was still overall good defense and Utah forced a shot they'd happily surrender every-time down the court, a contested floater from a guy who isnt a scorer.

it's not even the small sample size. it's about Niang having huge boost to his stats in G2/G3 blow out in which he had the luxury of playing against nuggets players who either checked out or were flat-out G-leaguers. and for that very reason, jazz players have +/- numbers that are way better than the nuggets across the board despite the series being tied at 3-3, though it is clear that in moments when it does matter niang's nearly unplayable.

 

[jom2003]

The Conley Ingles stuff appears to be real.

Ingles has been awful since Conley got back. To many cooks.

it makes sense too. both need enough touches on the ball to be effective.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

it's not even the small sample size. it's about Niang having huge boost to his stats in G2/G3 blow out in which he had the luxury of playing against nuggets players who either checked out or were flat-out G-leaguers. in moments when it does matter he's nearly unplayable.

I mean, part of those blowouts was Niang hitting shots to keep them at bay. You can't discredit those games. Did you not watch game 5 where Utah was up big in the 3rd?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

it makes sense too. both need enough touches on the ball to be effective.

And there's plenty of touches in Utah's offense for everyone to be effective if they just shoot the ball when they get it when open.

Blaming any of Ingles issues on lack of touches is just asinine. The guy has to reach for confidence from somewhere.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

If the Jazz went and got bigger and less skilled on ball, pushing Ingles into more ball-handling opportunities, we'd all just be complaining about how we need a better on-ball playmaker to replace Ingles.

 

[jom2003]

I mean, part of those blowouts was Niang hitting shots to keep them at bay. You can't discredit those games. Did you not watch game 5 where Utah was up big in the 3rd?

it has more to do with nuggets not quitting in G5 than anything else. they had the option to check out and quit playing in G2/G3 knowing they had the next game available to them. in G5 they knew it was a do or die so they kept playing. Not to mention how much Niang had helped us in G5 to prevent a Nuggets comeback. Oh wait...

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

If the Jazz went and got bigger and less skilled on ball, pushing Ingles into more ball-handling opportunities, we'd all just be complaining about how we need a better on-ball playmaker to replace Ingles.

Probably true.

Joe be more aggressive. Royce do better on defense. Tony... ****ing do something positive.

Everyone... let's hope Jamal doesn't continue to go supernova. He has basically turned into a bigger Steph Curry this series. Gonna give him credit.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

**** is so heartbreaking when you see how good Jeff Green has been for Houston. If the Jazz got that guy, our whole outlook on the our bench and free agency changes.

I dont know if he just hated living in Utah or if the offense was just too involved for him, but he is thriving in Houston simplistic offense.

It's also a lesson that you can't just compare apples and oranges when it comes to roster moves. If we never signed Jeff Green and he played for Houston all season we'd be saying "Why didnt our dumb FO get Green?". Who knows, maybe Ed Davis wouldnt have been complete *** on a different team.

 

[homeytennis]

**** is so heartbreaking when you see how good Jeff Green has been for Houston. If the Jazz got that guy, our whole outlook on the our bench and free agency changes.

I dont know if he just hated living in Utah or if the offense was just too involved for him, but he is thriving in Houston simplistic offense.

It's also a lesson that you can't just compare apples and oranges when it comes to roster moves. If we never signed Jeff Green and he played for Houston all season we'd be saying "Why didnt our dumb FO get Green?". Who knows, maybe Ed Davis wouldnt have been complete *** on a different team.

I think the Jazz are deeply flawed this year. This is a team that was down by 40 at the half in a game. The Green and Davis fiascos is a symptom of the bad ju ju going on. The soap opera with X is another symptom. Last night I was really frustrated with our bench or lack of one. I thought the Stars would perform as well or better. I'm talking about the Stars not on the roster. Willie Reed or Isaac Haas for a big, Paul White for a 4, and Kyle Collinsworth, Rodney Pryor and Trevion Bluiett for wings and Mike Scott for a point. Right now Mudiay is dead to Quin. Quin is the smartest guy in the room and he's better find some answers.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

this was part of my issue last night. We really went away from the Rudy PnR last night. 1st quarter had it rolling. At times we were extremely stagnant on offense.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

**** is so heartbreaking when you see how good Jeff Green has been for Houston. If the Jazz got that guy, our whole outlook on the our bench and free agency changes.

I dont know if he just hated living in Utah or if the offense was just too involved for him, but he is thriving in Houston simplistic offense.

It's also a lesson that you can't just compare apples and oranges when it comes to roster moves. If we never signed Jeff Green and he played for Houston all season we'd be saying "Why didnt our dumb FO get Green?". Who knows, maybe Ed Davis wouldnt have been complete *** on a different team.

Houston has simplified everything... defense and offense. It allows role players to thrive.