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Holy piss, the Apollo moon missions were fake?!

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The Van Allen Radiation Belt is easy to shield against. This is known.
No quantitative evidence has been advanced to support this "fact". Maybe there is some, somewhere, and I just haven't looked yet.

I believe the main issue is heat, from ion impacts on the metal skin. The original moon mission was supposed to have been achieved by running the capsule through a relatively "weak" spot in the field. A secondary issue in space is radiation of several kinds. A study of the BE:IR study done in the sixties would cover them all. I used to have a summary of that report under my elbow while helping a real scientist write research proposals. The full study takes up six feet of library shelf, back then, before modern data storage...... Committees on Biological Effects of Atomic Radiation, 1954-1964 (nasonline.org)

"Biological Effects of Ionizing Radiation"

I have previously linked articles related to the design of a new generation of capsules which have insulation several inches think..... something like polystyrene fixed to the insides of the metal shield. This is an improvement, but it sorta validates my skepticism and "explains" why we haven't been all that gung ho to repeat the moon landings.
 
Are there any arguments put forth that haven't been debunked by one of the sites doing that, like http://www.clavius.org?
The Clavius site and the posters on it's forum don't debunk the hoax proof. They try to obfuscate it and then just consider it to be debunked. Persistent truthers who try to debate on the Clavius forum don't last long. They get banned if they're winning debates too decisively. Check out the info on Clavius in post #95.

On the Clavius forum you'll just see a bunch of shills* talking to each other. They all know that Apollo was faked as well as the hoax-believers do.


*
 
Again, scientists around the world have been allowed to study lunar samples returned by America’s manned lunar missions. It is impossible to fake lunar rocks. Understand? Impossible. It is also impossible to disguise a lunar meteorite, (for which we have many samples, even private collectors like myself own lunar meteorite samples) as a non meteoritic lunar sample. The lunar meteorite sample will have signatures of cosmic ray exposure age, (produced by the meteorite orbiting the sun before intersecting the Earth’s orbit and being captured by our gravitational field) that a sample actually collected from the moon will not. Therefore, NASA could not secretly substitute meteoritic lunar samples and send those to scientists for study. Understand?

The net result of these incontrovertible facts is that we would need to believe that scientists from countries throughout the world, including many in the states, would somehow not be able to tell a lunar meteorite sample from a lunar sample collected on the moon by human missions. And, by now, there have been so many scientists and labs in the United States and worldwide that have studied Apollo samples, that we would be expected to believe would have to be keeping their mouths shut and being in on the conspiracy.

This is an absurd scenario that falls apart when one realizes what I have described above. One need not look past what I am here describing to collapse this conspiracy nonsense.....
 
Again, scientists around the world have been allowed to study lunar samples returned by America’s manned lunar missions. It is impossible to fake lunar rocks. Understand? Impossible. It is also impossible to disguise a lunar meteorite, (for which we have many samples, even private collectors like myself own lunar meteorite samples) as a non meteoritic lunar sample. The lunar meteorite sample will have signatures of cosmic ray exposure age, (produced by the meteorite orbiting the sun before intersecting the Earth’s orbit and being captured by our gravitational field) that a sample actually collected from the moon will not. Therefore, NASA could not secretly substitute meteoritic lunar samples and send those to scientists for study. Understand?

The net result of these incontrovertible facts is that we would need to believe that scientists from countries throughout the world, including many in the states, would somehow not be able to tell a lunar meteorite sample from a lunar sample collected on the moon by human missions. And, by now, there have been so many scientists and labs in the United States and worldwide that have studied Apollo samples, that we would be expected to believe would have to be keeping their mouths shut and being in on the conspiracy.

This is an absurd scenario that falls apart when one realizes what I have described above. One need not look past what I am here describing to collapse this conspiracy nonsense.....
You are completely missing the point, as all the apologists do, that they are all in on it. Every single one of those universities, scientists, everyone, is in on it. You are the one being duped. There is a mass conspiracy to fabricate mounds and mounds of evidence, which has to cost billions to fake, because...uh...because. um. Because it keeps everyone in the dark, and that means they can control you and get you to buy more fake moon rocks! Yeah, that's it. Of course you can't see it because you aren't enlightened. Get learned man! Wake up!
 
Okay I just want to play a game.

Let's say the moon landings were fake... Now what?
Hahaha you are so naive. You just don't get how powerful these people are. They are controlling you and you don't even know it. That's the worst kind of control, when you aren't even aware of it and it doesn't affect your daily life in any way, shape, or form, and it's literally impossible to tell. You need to wake up man and take your life back!

Of course when you do it will be exactly what your life is now, but you will have taken it back!! Then they can't take that away from you ever again!

Until they do. There is no way to stop it.
 
You are completely missing the point, as all the apologists do, that they are all in on it. Every single one of those universities, scientists, everyone, is in on it. You are the one being duped. There is a mass conspiracy to fabricate mounds and mounds of evidence, which has to cost billions to fake, because...uh...because. um. Because it keeps everyone in the dark, and that means they can control you and get you to buy more fake moon rocks! Yeah, that's it. Of course you can't see it because you aren't enlightened. Get learned man! Wake up!
Gawd, it’s downright diabolical. Gonna need to unload my lunar meteorites before everyone wakes up, and I’m left holding the bag, or rather these worthless rocks. Eh, I’ll put ‘em on eBay with all the other fake collectibles. Should be enough suckers there....
 
Gawd, it’s downright diabolical. Gonna need to unload my lunar meteorites before everyone wakes up, and I’m left holding the bag, or rather these worthless rocks. Eh, I’ll put ‘em on eBay with all the other fake collectibles. Should be enough suckers there....
Why are political activists all such bad salesmen???

You don't know how to sell ****.

Now there's a guy I know who can do that, and people love it.

So your stash of fake moon rocks is worth a hundred times as much as real moon rocks. You just raise the price and advertise them as "Fake Moon Rocks". Everybody wants Fake Moon Rocks.

Make up some certificates from an official-sounding government agency, say, the "CYA", make note that it is the government largest and most authoritative government agency, the only one that can certify Moon Rocks as "Fake", and get pics of the rocks next to the certificates and a red baseball cap with the CYA logo.
 
Okay I just want to play a game.

Let's say the moon landings were fake... Now what?

We still won the space race.

So we sit on our asses and let China colonize the Big Cheese.

The Master Race is destined to be the Han Chinese ethnic, and everybody else is their slaves.

We get to polish their shoes.
 
Just to re-boot this thread, I really don't know where Red's box of meteorites came from. Pretty sure not all from the same place. I mean who knows, really. What we find on our surface (or near the surface, reasonably speaking) is likely a selection of stuff that for some reason just was not atomized in the upper atmosphere from heat or reaction. I mean we could have a whole lot of night spectroscopes looking for the streaks and analyzing the elements.

We think certain compositions, rare on earth's surface, and perhaps being resistive to the fast burn, are from outta this world. But that is reasoned speculation. It is also unlikely that a planet like Mars or our moon has that composition, particularly near the surface from something could be scattered by an impact of sufficient force to launch a rock outta that place so it could come here.

We can analyze surfaces with reflected light and gain some knowledge of composition. We can (and have) landed lab tooled robots on the Moon and Mars and at least one asteroid, and get some material analyzed and reported back to us.


We could more safely land something capable of faking footprints or whatever than actually do it with a human foot in a boot.

I guess, since I don't really know anything, everything is possible.

Except a unified "conspiracy" where the participant base is well-informed and so well indoctrinated or committed to the plan that no one, not even one in a million, would defect or disclose the plan. That kind of conspiracy is statistically improbable beyond imagination.

I consider a conspiracy with two collaborators to be dangerously imperiled by a quarrel at some point.

What is realistic is a project where information to participants is managed so no one knows it all. Better yet where no one knows more than they "need to know". One person can launch a project like that. And that is literally the only kind of "conspiracy" that ever succeeds. Most intelligence agencies across the world have such projects in play, as well as most serious corporations.

Call me crazy, but that's literally "The Devil" in ourselves.

Far more probable successes are plans with multiple beneficiaries whose interests are sufficiently provided for. You know, something like a political party, or the US Congress.
 
You don't know how to sell ****.
I was joking....
Just to re-boot this thread, I really don't know where Red's box of meteorites came from. Pretty sure not all from the same place. I mean who knows, really. What we find on our surface (or near the surface, reasonably speaking) is likely a selection of stuff that for some reason just was not atomized in the upper atmosphere from heat or reaction. I mean we could have a whole lot of night spectroscopes looking for the streaks and analyzing the elements.
And you quite obviously don’t know **** about meteorites. Be careful who you speak gibberish too. Stick to your political or climatological diatribes. Enough said.....
 
I was joking....

And you quite obviously don’t know **** about meteorites. Be careful who you speak gibberish too. Stick to your political or climatological diatribes. Enough said.....

you just gotta be joking? And you think I'm not??????

So what is the definition of a meteorite? Has the Woke Scientific Ministry got a new definition today they have decided needs to replace the racist definition of yesterday?

We have examples of rocks some scientists think came from Mars that would have to have been blasted outta there and land here without being burned up. We have at least one some scientists claim may have come from Venus. I consider the Moon to be statistically the most probable source meteorites that originate from large impacts on nearby bodies. I'd expect that moon surface rock is not dense nor physically strong or hard and most of these "meteorites" don't make it through our atmosphere. Stuff from Venus or Mercury would have to fly away from the Sun, overcoming Solar acceleration. Stuff from Mars is morel likely to come our way.

Comets...... the objects with solar orbits which we see predictably coming around near the Sun, also break up at some rate and can be sources of rockfall. Even interstellar space has a non-zero amount of space rocks. But most meteorites come from the Asteroid belt which experiences at times strong gravitational distortions from proximate planets moving nearer in their regular orbits.to a particular zone in the Asteroid belt, and it is thought can even pull stuff away from the belt. Much of it goes to Jupiter, but stuff on the inner side of the belt sometimes comes towards us. When Mars, the Earth and the Sun align with an Asteroid..... And Jupiter is far away....

iron-nickel is the composition of some meteorites, around 10% found. Silicate materials form glasses with lower melting points. Other metals just burn up in oxygen (or nitrogen).. Some metals burn in water (Lithium, Magnesium).

So @Red your box of "moon rocks"........ has a great future. As meteorites as I think you have elsewhere spoken, the price will rise as the market gets flooded with cargocraft coming back loaded with moon rocks. The market will be flooded.

We still have to sit and wait for meteorites to fall, and then go scavenge the area where they hit. We have probably found most of the meteorites from the past already....

Right now, as I outlined above, you could hire a good "Trumper" to hawk your stuff at a con price, and retire to a Florida mansion maybe even Palm Beach. But if you just sit on your rocks, you still have a good future.

But there is no future in mocking conspiracy theorists. Nobody pays for that. That tribe is the rising majority of mankind, and you'll probably get mocked back ten theories to one fact.



.
 
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you just gotta be joking? And you think I'm not??????

So what is the definition of a meteorite? Has the Woke Scientific Ministry got a new definition today they have decided needs to replace the racist definition of yesterday?

We have examples of rocks some scientists think came from Mars that would have to have been blasted outta there and land here without being burned up. We have at least one some scientists claim may have come from Venus. I consider the Moon to be statistically the most probable source meteorites that originate from large impacts on nearby bodies. I'd expect that moon surface rock is not dense nor physically strong or hard and most of these "meteorites" don't make it through our atmosphere. Stuff from Venus or Mercury would have to fly away from the Sun, overcoming Solar acceleration. Stuff from Mars is morel likely to come our way.

Comets...... the objects with solar orbits which we see predictably coming around near the Sun, also break up at some rate and can be sources of rockfall. Even interstellar space has a non-zero amount of space rocks. But most meteorites come from the Asteroid belt which experiences at times strong gravitational distortions from proximate planets moving nearer in their regular orbits.to a particular zone in the Asteroid belt, and it is thought can even pull stuff away from the belt. Much of it goes to Jupiter, but stuff on the inner side of the belt sometimes comes towards us. When Mars, the Earth and the Sun align with an Asteroid..... And Jupiter is far away....

iron-nickel is the composition of some meteorites, around 10% found. Silicate materials form glasses with lower melting points. Other metals just burn up in oxygen (or nitrogen).. Some metals burn in water (Lithium, Magnesium).

So @Red your box of "moon rocks"........ has a great future. As meteorites as I think you have elsewhere spoken, the price will rise as the market gets flooded with cargocraft coming back loaded with moon rocks. The market will be flooded.

We still have to sit and wait for meteorites to fall, and then go scavenge the area where they hit. We have probably found most of the meteorites from the past already....

Right now, as I outlined above, you could hire a good "Trumper" to hawk your stuff at a con price, and retire to a Florida mansion maybe even Palm Beach. But if you just sit on your rocks, you still have a good future.

But there is no future in mocking conspiracy theorists. Nobody pays for that. That tribe is the rising majority of mankind, and you'll probably get mocked back ten theories to one fact.



.
No, babe, I did realize that you yourself might be joking. I was not certain, but considered it a possibility. I mean, I grant, what you wrote about selling was somewhat comical.

Anyway..

It’s just that I also thought you were going to bluff your way through meteoritics, and I chuckled at that. There was no need to do that. You could have simply admitted it’s not a subject you are that familiar with.

Every meteorite collector that I know takes it upon themselves to make a real effort to take a deep dive into the science itself. True, some collectors just like to focus on famous, historic falls. And some just specialize in one of the major classes, like nickel iron meteorites, the type most laymen visualize when they think of meteorites.

But, most of us, if we really want to best appreciate what we collect, eventually have to get up to speed on the chemistry, the petrology, and basically what the science can tell us about the early formation of the solar system. With the exception of the planetary meteorites, such as Martian samples, almost all other meteorites will represent the earliest matter that condensed out of the solar nebula. Meaning, other than planetary specimens originating from planetary bodies large enough to have internal engines, and therefore experience geological processing and the creation of younger rocks, most other meteorite types will originate from asteroidal bodies that are 4.5-4.6 billion years old. Meteorites are the oldest matter than any of us can hold in our hands. And some meteorites display inclusions that originated from a star that went nova even before our solar system existed. Pretty exciting to hold such things in one’s hand.

But, ya gotta dive into the science to really develop a knowledge of, and appreciation for, what you own when you collect space rocks. Simply put, the science is where all the excitement, and all the fun, is.

Again, focusing on learning the science, many collectors enjoy focusing on the carbonaceous chondrites class(the CC class) of meteorites. Because they are rich in carbon compounds and amino acids, and may, in the early phases of planetary formation, have been responsible for seeding the building blocks of life onto the early Earth. And such a collector will but naturally dive deeply into the science of those CC meteorites. There is no way around it if one wants to enhance appreciation for what one is collecting.

One of the things that is somewhat unique to meteorite study and collection is that there is a symbiotic relationship among meteorite hunters, collectors, and scientists. This is a bit unusual, I believe, in that because I also collect fossils and artifacts, I am familiar with the fact that many scientists in the disciplines of paleontology and archaeology are less enthusiastic about the presence of amateurs and the existence of collector markets. That is simply not the case among planetary geologists or meteoriticists.

Which brings me to that symbiotic relationship. Meteorite hunters, who also, but not all, tend to be collectors as well, depend on a market. But the collector market values classified meteorites far more than unclassified meteorites. And only scientific labs recognized and approved by the Meteoritical Society can classify meteorites and get them published in the Meteoritical Bulletin. So, the hunter, or anybody who finds a new find or recovers a new fall, submits a sample to an approved lab. The rarer the classification, the more value the new fall or find will have for a collector. And, this part is key to the symbiosis I’m talking about: the lab must receive a percentage of the new fall or find. In this way, science benefits by receiving new specimens to study, and is therefore able to add to our body of knowledge. The hunter benefits because classifieds are worth more, and, if a rare class, the value will be higher. And collectors benefit by being able to add newly classified meteorites to their collections. Hunters, collectors, and science all benefit by this symbiotic relationship at the very heart of meteorite collecting. Science has Antarctica to itself, a cold desert that for reasons I won’t go into, accumulates meteorites over time. Only scientists can collect there.

But, in places like the hot deserts of Morocco and Algeria, a huge number of meteorites have been, and still are being, recovered. Not by scientists. By Bedouins and by professional hunters. The Meteoritical Society labels all these specimens Northwest Africa, with a number assigned to them. These have been flooding the market since about the 1990’s. A boon to everyone. Again, submit to a scientific lab, and the lab must be given a percentage of the new find. So the science of meteoritics benefits with new finds. The hunter/dealer gets his classification. The collector gets a chance to add a new find, perhaps a rare lunar or Martian, to his/her collections. Symbiosis. No reason for science to resent collectors or the existence of a meteorite market.

So, what I am getting at is, as I stated, I don’t know any serious collector, including myself, who does not eagerly embrace the science itself, simply to better appreciate what they own. And amateurs can also make significant contributions of their own, to the science itself. For example, I have a close friend who is a pharmacist. He specializes in collecting carbonaceous chondrites, a type of stony meteorite. His pharmacy background provides him a strong knowledge of chemistry, one of my biggest weaknesses. I’m OK with the petrology of meteorites, but weak on the chemistry. It doesn’t come easy, but I do my best. But, he has studied the chemistry of carbonaceous chondrites so thoroughly, that he has published his studies in scientific journals. He became a noted authority on that class of stone meteorite.

So, you see, when I said to you “be careful who you speak gibberish to”, it was because, while I am certainly not a planetary geologist, or meteoriticist, I recognized that you were going to try winging your way through that science. There’s no need of that. All I tried to do, in the first place, was use what knowledge I have gained, to point out how impossible it really is to explain where all of NASA’s moon rocks came from if the Apollo missions never really took place.

Anyway, this stone, probably unattractive to most eyes, was one of the center pieces of my personal collection. I sold it recently to a friend. It’s the Allende meteorite, having fallen in Allende, Mexico, in 1969. Interestingly, the labs set up to study the original Apollo moon rocks used this large fall as a test run on their new equipment since it fell shortly before the first mission. It’s a CC, a carbonaceous chondrite, specifically a CV3 meteorite. See the white inclusions? Those are called CAI’s: Calcium Aluminum Inclusions. They originated in a distant star that went nova, and became incorporated into the original matter that condensed out of the solar nebula that became our solar system.

Space rocks like this inspire the imagination, but that imagination emerges out of knowing the science to the best of one’s ability. And every collector I know digs the science, to better understand and appreciate their specimens.

B24698B3-A118-4B46-8E04-CB310563AE5A.jpeg
Well, since the subject was the lunar missions to begin with, it’s appropriate to add this photo. This is a 1.5 gm slice of Northwest Africa 11266(NWA 11266), a lunar regolith breccia. The 11,266th meteorite from Northwest Africa to be recognized by the Meteoritical Society, to give you some idea at how much the market has been impacted by the meteorite goldmine that are the hot deserts of NW Africa. Of course, only a small number have been lunar. When lunar meteorites first hit the market, they sold for thousands of dollars per gram. Now, some, such as this one, can be had for under $100 per gram.
439BD4B7-5C98-4BF9-8C3A-71129DEAC396.jpeg
 
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No, babe, I did realize that you yourself might be joking. I was not certain, but considered it a possibility. I mean, I grant, what you wrote about selling was somewhat comical.

Anyway..

It’s just that I also thought you were going to bluff your way through meteoritics, and I chuckled at that. There was no need to do that. You could have simply admitted it’s not a subject you are that familiar with.

Every meteorite collector that I know takes it upon themselves to make a real effort to take a deep dive into the science itself. True, some collectors just like to focus on famous, historic falls. And some just specialize in one of the major classes, like nickel iron meteorites, the type most laymen visualize when they think of meteorites.

But, most of us, if we really want to best appreciate what we collect, eventually have to get up to speed on the chemistry, the petrology, and basically what the science can tell us about the early formation of the solar system. With the exception of the planetary meteorites, such as Martian samples, almost all other meteorites will represent the earliest matter that condensed out of the solar nebula. Meaning, other than planetary specimens originating from planetary bodies large enough to have internal engines, and therefore experience geological processing and the creation of younger rocks, most other meteorite types will originate from asteroidal bodies that are 4.5-4.6 billion years old. Meteorites are the oldest matter than any of us can hold in our hands. And some meteorites display inclusions that originated from a star that went nova even before our solar system existed. Pretty exciting to hold such things in one’s hand.

But, ya gotta dive into the science to really develop a knowledge of, and appreciation for, what you own when you collect space rocks. Simply put, the science is where all the excitement, and all the fun, is.

Again, focusing on learning the science, many collectors enjoy focusing on the carbonaceous chondrites class(the CC class) of meteorites. Because they are rich in carbon compounds and amino acids, and may, in the early phases of planetary formation, have been responsible for seeding the building blocks of life onto the early Earth. And such a collector will but naturally dive deeply into the science of those CC meteorites. There is no way around it if one wants to enhance appreciation for what one is collecting.

One of the things that is somewhat unique to meteorite study and collection is that there is a symbiotic relationship among meteorite hunters, collectors, and scientists. This is a bit unusual, I believe, in that because I also collect fossils and artifacts, I am familiar with the fact that many scientists in the disciplines of paleontology and archaeology are less enthusiastic about the presence of amateurs and the existence of collector markets. That is simply not the case among planetary geologists or meteoriticists.

Which brings me to that symbiotic relationship. Meteorite hunters, who also, but not all, tend to be collectors as well, depend on a market. But the collector market values classified meteorites far more than unclassified meteorites. And only scientific labs recognized and approved by the Meteoritical Society can classify meteorites and get them published in the Meteoritical Bulletin. So, the hunter, or anybody who finds a new find or recovers a new fall, submits a sample to an approved lab. The rarer the classification, the more value the new fall or find will have for a collector. And, this part is key to the symbiosis I’m talking about: the lab must receive a percentage of the new fall or find. In this way, science benefits by receiving new specimens to study, and is therefore able to add to our body of knowledge. The hunter benefits because classifieds are worth more, and, if a rare class, the value will be higher. And collectors benefit by being able to add newly classified meteorites to their collections. Hunters, collectors, and science all benefit by this symbiotic relationship at the very heart of meteorite collecting. Science has Antarctica to itself, a cold desert that for reasons I won’t go into, accumulates meteorites over time. Only scientists can collect there.

But, in places like the hot deserts of Morocco and Algeria, a huge number of meteorites have been, and still are being, recovered. Not by scientists. By Bedouins and by professional hunters. The Meteoritical Society labels all these specimens Northwest Africa, with a number assigned to them. These have been flooding the market since about the 1990’s. A boon to everyone. Again, submit to a scientific lab, and the lab must be given a percentage of the new find. So the science of meteoritics benefits with new finds. The hunter/dealer gets his classification. The collector gets a chance to add a new find, perhaps a rare lunar or Martian, to his/her collections. Symbiosis. No reason for science to resent collectors or the existence of a meteorite market.

So, what I am getting at is, as I stated, I don’t know any serious collector, including myself, who does not eagerly embrace the science itself, simply to better appreciate what they own. And amateurs can also make significant contributions of their own, to the science itself. For example, I have a close friend who is a pharmacist. He specializes in collecting carbonaceous chondrites, a type of stony meteorite. His pharmacy background provides him a strong knowledge of chemistry, one of my biggest weaknesses. I’m OK with the petrology of meteorites, but weak on the chemistry. It doesn’t come easy, but I do my best. But, he has studied the chemistry of carbonaceous chondrites so thoroughly, that he has published his studies in scientific journals. He became a noted authority on that class of stone meteorite.

So, you see, when I said to you “be careful who you speak gibberish to”, it was because, while I am certainly not a planetary geologist, or meteoriticist, I recognized that you were going to try winging your way through that science. There’s no need of that. All I tried to do, in the first place, was use what knowledge I have gained, to point out how impossible it really is to explain where all of NASA’s moon rocks came from if the Apollo missions never really took place.

Anyway, this stone, probably unattractive to most eyes, was one of the center pieces of my personal collection. I sold it recently to a friend. It’s the Allende meteorite, having fallen in Allende, Mexico, in 1969. Interestingly, the labs set up to study the original Apollo moon rocks used this large fall as a test run on their new equipment since it fell shortly before the first mission. It’s a CC, a carbonaceous chondrite, specifically a CV3 meteorite. See the white inclusions? Those are called CAI’s: Calcium Aluminum Inclusions. They originated in a distant star that went nova, and became incorporated into the original matter that condensed out of the solar nebula that became our solar system.

Space rocks like this inspire the imagination, but that imagination emerges out of knowing the science to the best of one’s ability. And every collector I know digs the science, to better understand and appreciate their specimens.

View attachment 10458
Well, since the subject was the lunar missions to begin with, it’s appropriate to add this photo. This is a 1.5 gm slice of Northwest Africa 11266(NWA 11266), a lunar regolith breccia. The 11,266th meteorite from Northwest Africa to be recognized by the Meteoritical Society, to give you some idea at how much the market has been impacted by the meteorite goldmine that are the hot deserts of NW Africa. Of course, only a small number have been lunar. When lunar meteorites first hit the market, they sold for thousands of dollars per gram. Now, some, such as this one, can be had for under $100 per gram.
View attachment 10459
I found a star fragment in hyrule. Watched it fall out of the sky and hunted it down and everything. Sold it for 300 rupees. I thought that was a good deal.
 
I found a star fragment in hyrule. Watched it fall out of the sky and hunted it down and everything. Sold it for 300 rupees. I thought that was a good deal.
when and why were you there? I mean, this doesn't sound that much like a "Lie-on-the-Fly" post.

I'm out in the deserts quite often in the night. I have seen some spectacular streaks that I imagine must have been close hits. But I can't just stop driving.

One night, on a mountain pass, I stopped to pee on a tree. I mean forty miles from the nearest toilet and all. I saw a bright, white "star" coming at me from the Southwest. It had just cleared a 10000ft range. I was at 6000 ft. It took about 3 minutes for it to go 30 miles. It cleared the ridge just a quarter mile south of me maybe only 1000 ft above me. It was the kind of "white" that is produced by burning magnesium and magnesium alloys. It crossed the canyon just east of me and disappeared over the ridge there. I could plot it's trajectory and locate it's strike on the next rangej pretty close, but that is one of the largest sheer cliffs on our continent. Still, somewhere on the steep talus slope, I bet you can find the remains of a Chinese missile.

The same night a similar observation was on the news over San Diego. It was hushed up pretty quick. I think a Chinese ship accidentally launched some missiles, maybe even notified up immediately, and we blew them up, but a few of the larger pieces flew burning over land.

This is for my observation a true story, but who the hell knows about the speculations I resort to in trying to explain it. I highly doubt one of our airplanes caught fire, or one of our satellites caught fire on re-entry, and took that course. Too slow to be a meteorite, imo. I mean, what do I know. Maybe once in a while the earth overtakes a space rock moving relatively slowly near us.
 
No, babe, I did realize that you yourself might be joking. I was not certain, but considered it a possibility. I mean, I grant, what you wrote about selling was somewhat comical.

Anyway..

It’s just that I also thought you were going to bluff your way through meteoritics, and I chuckled at that. There was no need to do that. You could have simply admitted it’s not a subject you are that familiar with.

Every meteorite collector that I know takes it upon themselves to make a real effort to take a deep dive into the science itself. True, some collectors just like to focus on famous, historic falls. And some just specialize in one of the major classes, like nickel iron meteorites, the type most laymen visualize when they think of meteorites.

But, most of us, if we really want to best appreciate what we collect, eventually have to get up to speed on the chemistry, the petrology, and basically what the science can tell us about the early formation of the solar system. With the exception of the planetary meteorites, such as Martian samples, almost all other meteorites will represent the earliest matter that condensed out of the solar nebula. Meaning, other than planetary specimens originating from planetary bodies large enough to have internal engines, and therefore experience geological processing and the creation of younger rocks, most other meteorite types will originate from asteroidal bodies that are 4.5-4.6 billion years old. Meteorites are the oldest matter than any of us can hold in our hands. And some meteorites display inclusions that originated from a star that went nova even before our solar system existed. Pretty exciting to hold such things in one’s hand.

But, ya gotta dive into the science to really develop a knowledge of, and appreciation for, what you own when you collect space rocks. Simply put, the science is where all the excitement, and all the fun, is.

Again, focusing on learning the science, many collectors enjoy focusing on the carbonaceous chondrites class(the CC class) of meteorites. Because they are rich in carbon compounds and amino acids, and may, in the early phases of planetary formation, have been responsible for seeding the building blocks of life onto the early Earth. And such a collector will but naturally dive deeply into the science of those CC meteorites. There is no way around it if one wants to enhance appreciation for what one is collecting.

One of the things that is somewhat unique to meteorite study and collection is that there is a symbiotic relationship among meteorite hunters, collectors, and scientists. This is a bit unusual, I believe, in that because I also collect fossils and artifacts, I am familiar with the fact that many scientists in the disciplines of paleontology and archaeology are less enthusiastic about the presence of amateurs and the existence of collector markets. That is simply not the case among planetary geologists or meteoriticists.

Which brings me to that symbiotic relationship. Meteorite hunters, who also, but not all, tend to be collectors as well, depend on a market. But the collector market values classified meteorites far more than unclassified meteorites. And only scientific labs recognized and approved by the Meteoritical Society can classify meteorites and get them published in the Meteoritical Bulletin. So, the hunter, or anybody who finds a new find or recovers a new fall, submits a sample to an approved lab. The rarer the classification, the more value the new fall or find will have for a collector. And, this part is key to the symbiosis I’m talking about: the lab must receive a percentage of the new fall or find. In this way, science benefits by receiving new specimens to study, and is therefore able to add to our body of knowledge. The hunter benefits because classifieds are worth more, and, if a rare class, the value will be higher. And collectors benefit by being able to add newly classified meteorites to their collections. Hunters, collectors, and science all benefit by this symbiotic relationship at the very heart of meteorite collecting. Science has Antarctica to itself, a cold desert that for reasons I won’t go into, accumulates meteorites over time. Only scientists can collect there.

But, in places like the hot deserts of Morocco and Algeria, a huge number of meteorites have been, and still are being, recovered. Not by scientists. By Bedouins and by professional hunters. The Meteoritical Society labels all these specimens Northwest Africa, with a number assigned to them. These have been flooding the market since about the 1990’s. A boon to everyone. Again, submit to a scientific lab, and the lab must be given a percentage of the new find. So the science of meteoritics benefits with new finds. The hunter/dealer gets his classification. The collector gets a chance to add a new find, perhaps a rare lunar or Martian, to his/her collections. Symbiosis. No reason for science to resent collectors or the existence of a meteorite market.

So, what I am getting at is, as I stated, I don’t know any serious collector, including myself, who does not eagerly embrace the science itself, simply to better appreciate what they own. And amateurs can also make significant contributions of their own, to the science itself. For example, I have a close friend who is a pharmacist. He specializes in collecting carbonaceous chondrites, a type of stony meteorite. His pharmacy background provides him a strong knowledge of chemistry, one of my biggest weaknesses. I’m OK with the petrology of meteorites, but weak on the chemistry. It doesn’t come easy, but I do my best. But, he has studied the chemistry of carbonaceous chondrites so thoroughly, that he has published his studies in scientific journals. He became a noted authority on that class of stone meteorite.

So, you see, when I said to you “be careful who you speak gibberish to”, it was because, while I am certainly not a planetary geologist, or meteoriticist, I recognized that you were going to try winging your way through that science. There’s no need of that. All I tried to do, in the first place, was use what knowledge I have gained, to point out how impossible it really is to explain where all of NASA’s moon rocks came from if the Apollo missions never really took place.

Anyway, this stone, probably unattractive to most eyes, was one of the center pieces of my personal collection. I sold it recently to a friend. It’s the Allende meteorite, having fallen in Allende, Mexico, in 1969. Interestingly, the labs set up to study the original Apollo moon rocks used this large fall as a test run on their new equipment since it fell shortly before the first mission. It’s a CC, a carbonaceous chondrite, specifically a CV3 meteorite. See the white inclusions? Those are called CAI’s: Calcium Aluminum Inclusions. They originated in a distant star that went nova, and became incorporated into the original matter that condensed out of the solar nebula that became our solar system.

Space rocks like this inspire the imagination, but that imagination emerges out of knowing the science to the best of one’s ability. And every collector I know digs the science, to better understand and appreciate their specimens.

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Well, since the subject was the lunar missions to begin with, it’s appropriate to add this photo. This is a 1.5 gm slice of Northwest Africa 11266(NWA 11266), a lunar regolith breccia. The 11,266th meteorite from Northwest Africa to be recognized by the Meteoritical Society, to give you some idea at how much the market has been impacted by the meteorite goldmine that are the hot deserts of NW Africa. Of course, only a small number have been lunar. When lunar meteorites first hit the market, they sold for thousands of dollars per gram. Now, some, such as this one, can be had for under $100 per gram.
View attachment 10459
This is the kind of reply I live for.
 
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Yeah 100 bucks per gram is pretty cheap round here...
When the Peekskill meteorite crashed through the trunk of a car, a friend of mine eventually ended up with the car, and sent it on a world tour. I forget the purchase price for that car, but it was way more than the $400 the woman originally payed for it.


Forget the car. Just the original title and tail light: “In 2012, the Peekskill Meteorite Car's original title and a broken rear taillight bulb alone sold at auction in New York City in excess of $5,000. Today specimens of the meteorite itself sell for in excess of $150/gram — nearly 4x its weight in gold.
 
For some, meteorite dealing has been very financially rewarding, and some risks...


Since I was talking about carbonaceous chondrites and their rare composition, it’s somewhat of a coincidence that a very recent British fall has the meteorite collecting world, and meteorite scientists, beside themselves with excitement:

 
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