Coronavirus

[Deleted member 365]

This is horrible and shouldn’t be happening. The unvaccinated have made their choice!

 

[Red]

Since you said the teacher was male, which I knew was incorrect, I just decided to go back and look at news of the incident at the time. And the CNN article is what I found.

I can’t prove removing her mask and reading was the period in which she spread it, nor can I prove it happened while she and her students were masked. Seems to me there would be a better chance of spread happening while she was unmasked, but I won’t belabor that point, I cannot pinpoint when it happened, and neither can you.

What you believe is fine with me, I don’t care. But you said she was a man, and was masked all the time, or nearly all the time. And the latter is probably true, since there was a mandate. I don’t know if she spent 15 seconds reading without a mask, or 15 minutes(Did it say 15 minutes, I’ll look again, but I’m not trying to prove the exact moment anyway). Just found an article that allowed me to refresh my memory. You can make anything you want over the incident as described, and you can weigh the most likely moment or moments in which the spread occurred. I’m not trying to prove when it happened, I cannot possibly know the moment, or moments when spread occurred.

Let me put it this way. Surely, there will be, to some unknown degree, a better chance for an infected person to spread the virus by facing people and speaking to them sans mask then with a mask. So, it’s relevant to point out she faced the students and read to them without a mask, and I should think any reporting on the incident would actually be remiss in not pointing out that fact.

But, that does not prove the spread could only have occurred when she read to the class, and I never presented it as proof she infected them when reading to them.

It would be good to know the type of mask the teacher wore in school, and the types worn by every student in her class. But we don’t have that kind of detail, and even if we did, it won’t pinpoint the moment(s) spread occurred from that teacher to her students.

 

[One Brow]

"were going to protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated"

So Biden admits the vaccination is pointless.

Biden understand that 90% is not 100%. How about you?

I mean. I have to get a vaccine to protect the vaccinated?

As well as the unvaccinatible, your family, your customers, your country. I guess you're just not patriotic enough to get vaccinated.

 

[JazzyFresh]

Biden understand that 90% is not 100%. How about you?


As well as the unvaccinatible, your family, your customers, your country. I guess you're just not patriotic enough to get vaccinated.

Biden understand that 90% is not 100%. How about you?


As well as the unvaccinatible, your family, your customers, your country. I guess you're just not patriotic enough to get vaccinated.

So if they're vaccinated why worry? They have a choice.... You're just admitting the vaccine is pointless. How stupid of you.

 

[One Brow]

I don’t believe those sick enough to desire hospitalization will spread the virus more than others. In fact, aren’t the most contagious times for covid in the early stages of the infection? Those who desire hospitalization are usually one week into infection and I don’t think they’re much of a threat to go to concerts or sing at a church. If they’re turned down a hospital bed in favor of someone who was Responsible, then they’ll probably return home, ramp up the hydroxy and dewormer and rest.

Not to mention spread the infection further to anyone who lives with them, who will then spread it to their coworkers, where they shop, etc.

I think your accusation of this being a joke was a cheap shot. I think you knew it wasn’t a joke. I don’t have a history of being callous or joking in such a manner. It’s okay to admit it was a cheap shot.

Saying it was a joke was, from my perspective, the kinder and more generous interpretation. No need to worry, I won't make that error again.

I’m not sure if there is a debate to have. We just may have to agree to disagree. I don’t believe those responsibly vaccinated should see their health care curbed in favor of the irresponsible. It’s time for the rest of society to move on. Covid anti vaxxers have made their choice. If anything, this can act as an incentive to get vaccinated because now they know that literally their ability to get health care will be dependent on their vaccination status.

Should any actual providers want to correct me on any of this, I'll be more than happy to cede the floor.

The relationship between a medical provider and a patient is considered so precious and important, it's one of the few interactions you can make that are immune to being repeated as testimony (other examples being clergy, spouses, and attorneys). Their only functions is to bring a patient back to an optimal level of health. This means they can't judge a patient on their past, only advise them on how to do better.

This is not to say doctors can't act in the best interest of others as well as the patient. They use measures like quarantining, or occasionally needing to contact the authorities in case of immanent threats. However, the primary focus is on getting the patient the best possible care, regardless.

If you open the door to providers judging people who refuse the vaccine, who else do they get to decide deserves or does not deserve care? If they think a patient ate too much red meat, can they refuse to treat colon cancer, saying the resources would be better used on vegans? How about asthma sufferers who live in polluted areas? Everyone engages in some sort of potentially hazardous activities.

Also, once you set this standard, do you see private (or even government) insurance companies not picking this up and running with it to reduce expenses and increase predictability? They will take it out of the doctor's hands entirely, if they can. Picking and choosing whose cancer/diabetes/etc. can be covered will allow for greater profits.

Allow doctors to choose who deserves medical care is placing a greater burden on them then they already face. It's wrong on many levels.

 

[JazzyFresh]

Is Nazi Germany really so stupid that they don't understand personal freedom? If I'm unvaccinated that is a risk I am willingly taking. I understand the consequences that I may get sicker unvaccinated than vaccinated and I also understand that is the only thing the vaccine is doing and NOTHING more.

So if I personally chose, something communist theory hates, to be unvaccinated that is hurting me and me only. Sadly the vaccine doesn't work at all to protect those who did get vaccinated. If it did they should be able to walk into my store and not worry.

 

[One Brow]

So if they're vaccinated why worry? They have a choice.... You're just admitting the vaccine is pointless. How stupid of you.

Stupid resides in the person who doesn't understand the difference between 90% protected and 0% protected. I honestly don't think that is you, I think you're probably just semi-trolling. If you love your country enough, you'll get vaccinated.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

What does a mask do? Blocks respiratory droplets coming from your mouth and throat. Two simple demos: First, I sneezed, sang, talked & coughed toward an agar culture plate with or without a mask. Bacteria colonies show where droplets landed. A mask blocks virtually all of them.
View attachment 11212
Keep in mind virus droplets would travel farther and longer, but you get the idea.

That would be great if SARS-CoV-2 were a bacteria. It isn't. SARS-CoV-2 is an order of magnitude smaller and doesn't need droplets but rather spreads via aerosolized particles. This is why neck gators are worse than nothing. They catch the heavier droplets that would normally fall to the floor and aerosolize them thereby filling the room with SARS-CoV-2.

That it is so easy to play games with analogs, such as showing bacteria to claim something about a virus, is why I value the real world observational studies so much more. The studies in the schools and out of Bangladesh are actual people wearing real masks against the specific virus at issue versus a control group. I see those as the most robust and those are the statistics I cite.

 

[Scat]

Well, tested negative for covid but positive for flu A. Doc asked what symptoms I have been experiencing. When I told him none he simply chalked it up to a false positive. Said that 1 out of every 10-12 tests would give a false result. I asked if that was true of the covid test as well. He said it was. This would mean 10% of all people tested are given the wrong results. That seems like an awful high number.

 

[fishonjazz]

https://mobile.twitter.com/richdavisphd

What does a mask do? Blocks respiratory droplets coming from your mouth and throat. Two simple demos: First, I sneezed, sang, talked & coughed toward an agar culture plate with or without a mask. Bacteria colonies show where droplets landed. A mask blocks virtually all of them.
View attachment 11212
Keep in mind virus droplets would travel farther and longer, but you get the idea.

One of my weekly tasks at work is to make ager petri dishes for our yeast and mold testing.

 

[Avery]

One of my weekly tasks at work is to make ager petri dishes for our yeast and mold testing.

Didn't know meth labs needed such things.

 

[TheGoldStandard]

That would be great if SARS-CoV-2 were a bacteria. It isn't. SARS-CoV-2 is an order of magnitude smaller and doesn't need droplets but rather spreads via aerosolized particles. This is why neck gators are worse than nothing. They catch the heavier droplets that would normally fall to the floor and aerosolize them thereby filling the room with SARS-CoV-2.

That it is so easy to play games with analogs, such as showing bacteria to claim something about a virus, is why I value the real world observational studies so much more. The studies in the schools and out of Bangladesh are actual people wearing real masks against the specific virus at issue versus a control group. I see those as the most robust and those are the statistics I cite.

Are you serious?

No one is arguing Covid can be spread through aerosolized droplets.No one is arguing droplets carry larger viral load. These are facts.

Nevertheless, it has been proven that viral disease outbreaks via aerosol transmission are not as severe as one would think, because of dilution and inactivation of viruses that linger for extended periods in the air. (The length of time Covid remains active as an aerosol, and the infection rate between aerosol and droplet are still being studied).

Most CDC data shows droplet is the primary form of spread, which would explain why the kids in the front row got Covid at a much higher rate than the rest of the class, as droplets don't travel as far. Masks effectively prevent droplet transmission and larger aerosolized particles (aerosol is defined most conservatively as particles as less than 5 μm, which surgical masks can catch). I am confident if the teacher had kept a mask on there would be far fewer infections.

Surgical masks catch 20% of aerosolized particles, and reduce the spread of them as well (ventilation, filtration, room size, humidity, etc.) all play a large part in how much.

As I have said previously, only fit tested N95s or above will give full protection, but we have seen multiple instances of exposure with no spread when masks are worn consistently, including multiple instances at my kids school with mask mandates with no spread. Looking back, I see 6 instances throughout the school informed me my daughter had direct exposure to a classmate or teacher. They are all at least a month apart.