Coronavirus

[Gameface]

When it is a 30 minute TV broadcast 15 minutes on one subject is a ton of time but you wouldn't know that. You don't watch the evening news.

I didn't think that anyone under 60 years old still sat in front of a TV and watched the news.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

we have things like governors banning even private businesses from requiring masks.

You may want to double check. I don't think that statement is true. I know it isn't true in either Texas or Florida. A silly law like that would remove surgical masks from operating rooms.

 

[gandalfe]

You may want to double check. I don't think that statement is true. I know it isn't true in either Texas or Florida. A silly law like that would remove surgical masks from operating rooms.

I was extremely unclear, and I apologize. There have been no successful, or even serious, attempts to ban local businesses from requiring masks (that I am aware of), but there have been several times when it has, at least, come up as talking points, and, of course, there are all the tries to ban school mask mandates.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

I have spoken with 3 people this week (my wife and 2 co workers including one when I got to work today) about the new variant. I mostly just listened and didn't talk much as I usually do regarding something that could be seen as political or triggering to people. All 3 seemed to think that this new variant is not a big deal and 2 of them even thought that the new variant might be a good thing in the long run.

That is very encouraging. If that sentiment is on the way to becoming popular opinion then we may finally be getting to where this 2 year nightmare is left for the historians to argue over while we all move on.

 

[One Brow]

Right. But only 1 of our 2 political parties has opened the doors to these nutjobs.

Recently. Before 2015, they were pretty evenly divided on the left and right.

Now it’s part of their identity; 1. Must believe trump won in 2020 2. Must doubt vaccine science. We’ve now seen 2 years of Covid disinformation and anti vax rhetoric nonsense by right wing media outlets and politicians.

I think both are temporary.

 

[The Thriller]

Recently. Before 2015, they were pretty evenly divided on the left and right.


I think both are temporary.

Hmmm



I don’t know about this being temporary. I think we’re going to see the right continue to become more and more extreme in their anti vax rhetoric and actions. Just as we’ve seen them become more extreme in their anti climate change science, abortion, and gun control stances.

Regardless, whether these are temporary cards used to identify their tribe or permanent, the effects will leave permanent marks on individuals and communities that would have benefitted by belief in science.

 

[The Thriller]

I know you want to believe that as it is the narrative and most anti-vax people getting media time are in the pro-Trump crowd, but before COVID hit in my part of the country, anti-vax was more of a left-leaning sentiment. The most anti-vax areas of California were deep blue granola eating areas. The most prominent face for the anti-vax movement was Jenny McCarthy who is very much not a Republican. She even quit the View when they asked her to pretend to be a Republican for ratings. Neither side of the political divide is free from nutjobs, and neither side should be characterized by their most extreme supporters.

Thank you for telling me what I already know. It was a fringe group of bored suburban people and a handful of Hollywood C listers. However, the last few years we’ve seen them invited into the GOP and now hold significant influence in the right wing of this country.

 

[fishonjazz]

When it is a 30 minute TV broadcast 15 minutes on one subject is a ton of time but you wouldn't know that. You don't watch the evening news.

Again. For me spending a lot of time talking about something doesn't equal hysteria. I could talk about fishing all day but it wouldn't cause anyone to panic or freak out.

 

[One Brow]

I don’t know about this being temporary. I think we’re going to see the right continue to become more and more extreme in their anti vax rhetoric and actions. Just as we’ve seen them become more extreme in their anti climate change science, abortion, and gun control stances.

The right's antivaxxer rhetoric seems to be focused on covid19, as a response to attacks on/by Trump. They're not protesting MMR vaccines, TDAP, etc. When covid19 news is in the background, this opposition will fade.

Regardless, whether these are temporary cards used to identify their tribe or permanent, the effects will leave permanent marks on individuals and communities that would have benefitted by belief in science.

Agreed.

 

[One Brow]

When it is a 30 minute TV broadcast 15 minutes on one subject is a ton of time but you wouldn't know that. You don't watch the evening news.

In a 30-minute broadcast, there are 10 minutes(?) of commercials, plus weather and sports. Covid19 was 95% of the news time?

 

[fishonjazz]

For ***** and giggles I decided to go to yahoo.com just to see what pops up and see if there are a bunch of articles freaking out about a new variant with the intention to cause panic and hysteria.

First article was actually interesting: https://www.yahoo.com/news/michigan-school-shooting-more-threats-125304621.html

First article about the new variant was the 26th article after scrolling way down. (the 15 article was about jeff epsteins pilot naming names of celebs who flew on his airplane. Even though the media doesn't want us to know about this).
Here is the article: https://www.yahoo.com/news/omicron-cases-confirmed-3-u-214715369.html Some highlights from the article that will probably induce panic and hysteria (proceed with caution).

The Colorado case was found in an Arapahoe County woman who traveled throughout southern Africa and returned late last week, per Axios' John Frank.

• The woman was vaccinated but had not received a booster shot. She also wore a mask in her travels, officials said. She is experiencing mild systems and is quarantining.
• She developed symptoms after returning home and no cases of community transmission are anticipated.

Super scary right?

More scary stuff from the article:
"This was expected news," Gov. Jared Polis said in a briefing Thursday.

• "Any variant that is so prevalent in the world as the omicron variant is, we knew it wasn't a matter of if, it was a matter of when it was identified in Colorado."

Hochul stressed that there was no cause to panic, but urged New Yorkers to wear masks indoors and receive their vaccinations and boosters.

Simply terrifying.

 

[Gameface]

For ***** and giggles I decided to go to yahoo.com just to see what pops up and see if there are a bunch of articles freaking out about a new variant with the intention to cause panic and hysteria.

First article was actually interesting: https://www.yahoo.com/news/michigan-school-shooting-more-threats-125304621.html

First article about the new variant was the 26th article after scrolling way down. (the 15 article was about jeff epsteins pilot naming names of celebs who flew on his airplane. Even though the media doesn't want us to know about this).
Here is the article: https://www.yahoo.com/news/omicron-cases-confirmed-3-u-214715369.html Some highlights from the article that will probably induce panic and hysteria (proceed with caution).

The Colorado case was found in an Arapahoe County woman who traveled throughout southern Africa and returned late last week, per Axios' John Frank.

• The woman was vaccinated but had not received a booster shot. She also wore a mask in her travels, officials said. She is experiencing mild systems and is quarantining.
• She developed symptoms after returning home and no cases of community transmission are anticipated.

Super scary right?

More scary stuff from the article:
"This was expected news," Gov. Jared Polis said in a briefing Thursday.

• "Any variant that is so prevalent in the world as the omicron variant is, we knew it wasn't a matter of if, it was a matter of when it was identified in Colorado."

Hochul stressed that there was no cause to panic, but urged New Yorkers to wear masks indoors and receive their vaccinations and boosters.

Simply terrifying.

 

[The Thriller]

 

[lauriandres]

Interesting perspective regarding the hysteria about the new variant (omicron) that the media is creating. I have spoken with 3 people this week (my wife and 2 co workers including one when I got to work today) about the new variant. I mostly just listened and didn't talk much as I usually do regarding something that could be seen as political or triggering to people. All 3 seemed to think that this new variant is not a big deal and 2 of them even thought that the new variant might be a good thing in the long run. (I think Al o meter said something similar). None of them were scared or worried. Maybe they just arent watching the right news sources or something but it doesn't seem like there is any hysteria or even mild fear going on in my interactions with people about the new variant. Since the media is only trying to scare everyone and create hysteria I wonder where they are getting their info to make them so unafraid.

So is it fake news then , that a lot of countries are banning people from certain countries from Africa and for example Japan and Israel have again fully closed the borders? IMHO that is a hysterical reaction.
I guess it is pretty certain that i will not visit Japan in 2022 :-(. Originally i had plans (in the beginning of 2020) to visit Japan in 2021, then 2022. While i and my wife and daughter like (and miss) Japan as tourist destination, i am certainly not spending my tourism related budget for a country, which currently is paranoid and treats a healthy person like a witch.

I remember when in Estonia similar people like Thriller were pointing fingers in style "please do not be like eastern europeans, be like Scandinavian countries or like Germany or Austria, which have better vaccination rates and therefore more freedoms" in august and september.
Well, everybody can see the infection numbers now as they are what they are in Europe.
Obviously, it would be good for science, if there would be specified how many of those who got positive PCR, are having any symptoms (which reduce the quality of life) or not. At least in Estonia no one from a health department etc has not called me a la "Hello Lauri, we noticed that you had two borderline PCR tests while living together with somebody who got positive tests and had symptoms. Can we take some blood samples and make other measurements to see if there are any correlation about blood group, genes etc to determine what is (or not) influencing the covid infection?".
Now even Christmas market is banned in Germany for people who are not vaccinated :-(.

 

[Gameface]

So is it fake news then , that a lot of countries are banning people from certain countries from Africa and for example Japan and Israel have again fully closed the borders? IMHO that is a hysterical reaction.
I guess it is pretty certain that i will not visit Japan in 2022 :-(. Originally i had plans (in the beginning of 2020) to visit Japan in 2021, then 2022. While i and my wife and daughter like (and miss) Japan as tourist destination, i am certainly not spending my tourism related budget for a country, which currently is paranoid and treats a healthy person like a witch.

I remember when in Estonia similar people like Thriller were pointing fingers in style "please do not be like eastern europeans, be like Scandinavian countries or like Germany or Austria, which have better vaccination rates and therefore more freedoms" in august and september.
Well, everybody can see the infection numbers now as they are what they are in Europe.
Obviously, it would be good for science, if there would be specified how many of those who got positive PCR, are having any symptoms (which reduce the quality of life) or not. At least in Estonia no one from a health department etc has not called me a la "Hello Lauri, we noticed that you had two borderline PCR tests while living together with somebody who got positive tests and had symptoms. Can we take some blood samples and make other measurements to see if there are any correlation about blood group, genes etc to determine what is (or not) influencing the covid infection?".
Now even Christmas market is banned in Germany for people who are not vaccinated :-(.

Well, yes and no.

I mean a new variant is confirmed and people want to know more about it. Until they do know more about it they'll likely want to limit the spread of the new variant. We're still not vary good at surgically limiting spread, we have what at best might be described as a shotgun approach. Cut off travel from the best known source but don't do much to track individuals and contract trace and that sort of thing. China is actually worlds better at this type of thing than any other major nation, which is a direct result of their overbearing and authoritarian type of government.

I think pretty quickly the consensus will be that it's better to have Omicron spread through our communities than Delta and these restrictions will go away. No one is going to say that they actually want people to get Omicron if they are going to get COVID at all, but I bet within two months it will be obvious that the powers that be are fine with the rapid spread of Omicron amongst those who are basically going to get sick one way or another because they aren't going to get vaccinated aren't going to wear masks and aren't going to take precautions about the people they come in close contact with.

I bet the "hysteria" is over a week and a day from now.

 

[lauriandres]

Well, yes and no.

I mean a new variant is confirmed and people want to know more about it. Until they do know more about it they'll likely want to limit the spread of the new variant. We're still not vary good at surgically limiting spread, we have what at best might be described as a shotgun approach. Cut off travel from the best known source but don't do much to track individuals and contract trace and that sort of thing. China is actually worlds better at this type of thing than any other major nation, which is a direct result of their overbearing and authoritarian type of government.

I think pretty quickly the consensus will be that it's better to have Omicron spread through our communities than Delta and these restrictions will go away. No one is going to say that they actually want people to get Omicron if they are going to get COVID at all, but I bet within two months it will be obvious that the powers that be are fine with the rapid spread of Omicron amongst those who are basically going to get sick one way or another because they aren't going to get vaccinated aren't going to wear masks and aren't going to take precautions about the people they come in close contact with.

I bet the "hysteria" is over a week and a day from now.

Gameface,

By "hysteria" i meant mainly border closures and other major restrictions by the government. Otherwise it is getting quiet (at least in local media in my country).

The conspiracy theorist inside me guess , that either the published numbers in China are wrong (actually the numbers are huge) or the numbers are real (i.e tiny compared to Europe and USA) and worst case they know something (considering the restrictions they have), which is still unknown for Western science world. China is LARGE and considering specially the delta variant and the combination of widespread business that China does (and therefore a lot of business travel), i find it hard to believe that everything is fine and dandy in all provinces. We only hear about major swift lockdowns, but not minor ones.

Are there any stats, articles, complaints etc in USA media about whether the tourism industry in USA is suffering or not? I.e does big tourism related companies demand something like "please open the borders fully, we miss the money that is brought by foreign tourists"?

 

[LogGrad98]

For ***** and giggles I decided to go to yahoo.com just to see what pops up and see if there are a bunch of articles freaking out about a new variant with the intention to cause panic and hysteria.

First article was actually interesting: https://www.yahoo.com/news/michigan-school-shooting-more-threats-125304621.html

First article about the new variant was the 26th article after scrolling way down. (the 15 article was about jeff epsteins pilot naming names of celebs who flew on his airplane. Even though the media doesn't want us to know about this).
Here is the article: https://www.yahoo.com/news/omicron-cases-confirmed-3-u-214715369.html Some highlights from the article that will probably induce panic and hysteria (proceed with caution).

The Colorado case was found in an Arapahoe County woman who traveled throughout southern Africa and returned late last week, per Axios' John Frank.

• The woman was vaccinated but had not received a booster shot. She also wore a mask in her travels, officials said. She is experiencing mild systems and is quarantining.
• She developed symptoms after returning home and no cases of community transmission are anticipated.

Super scary right?

More scary stuff from the article:
"This was expected news," Gov. Jared Polis said in a briefing Thursday.

• "Any variant that is so prevalent in the world as the omicron variant is, we knew it wasn't a matter of if, it was a matter of when it was identified in Colorado."

Hochul stressed that there was no cause to panic, but urged New Yorkers to wear masks indoors and receive their vaccinations and boosters.

Simply terrifying.

Ok come clean, did you get more ***** or more giggles out of that?

 

[LogGrad98]

Well, yes and no.

I mean a new variant is confirmed and people want to know more about it. Until they do know more about it they'll likely want to limit the spread of the new variant. We're still not vary good at surgically limiting spread, we have what at best might be described as a shotgun approach. Cut off travel from the best known source but don't do much to track individuals and contract trace and that sort of thing. China is actually worlds better at this type of thing than any other major nation, which is a direct result of their overbearing and authoritarian type of government.

I think pretty quickly the consensus will be that it's better to have Omicron spread through our communities than Delta and these restrictions will go away. No one is going to say that they actually want people to get Omicron if they are going to get COVID at all, but I bet within two months it will be obvious that the powers that be are fine with the rapid spread of Omicron amongst those who are basically going to get sick one way or another because they aren't going to get vaccinated aren't going to wear masks and aren't going to take precautions about the people they come in close contact with.

I bet the "hysteria" is over a week and a day from now.

I wonder what level of immunity anyone who gets any of these variants develop naturally against COVID when they are better. And I wonder if this is effective against all variants. I seem to remember something about natural immunity for those who had COVID was pretty ineffectual, like a 50/50 shot you could get it again anyway.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

I wonder what level of immunity anyone who gets any of these variants develop naturally against COVID when they are better. And I wonder if this is effective against all variants. I seem to remember something about natural immunity for those who had COVID was pretty ineffectual, like a 50/50 shot you could get it again anyway.

It depends entirely on the immune system and health of the person who was infected. There is no single number and at this point it appears everyone or nearly everyone is susceptible to infection/reinfection regardless of vaccination or prior infection. The primary effect of vaccination or prior infection is to moderate the symptoms of a COVID infection. It probably won't stop an infection but it does great at keeping you out of the hospital or worse if you do become infected. The more recent your prior infection or vaccination, the less severe symptoms will be.

 

[TheGoldStandard]

I wonder what level of immunity anyone who gets any of these variants develop naturally against COVID when they are better. And I wonder if this is effective against all variants. I seem to remember something about natural immunity for those who had COVID was pretty ineffectual, like a 50/50 shot you could get it again anyway.

All of that will be important, but at least in the USA, at this point most people have either had the virus or the vaccine.

The big question is how sick will people get from Omicron. As long as we don't overwhelm the hospitals, and death rates aren't increasing, then it won't be a big deal.