The *OFFICIAL* Russia Is About To Invade Ukraine Thread

[gandalfe]

I’ve used this clip in the past because it is such a powerful demonstration of what I’m talking about. I could link to a dozen papers that explain how it works with experimental evidence to prove it but none have the impact of this entertaining 6 minute clip.



The three people in this clip had the free choice to choose whatever room they wanted, whatever object they wanted, and pose for the photo however they wanted. At least that is what they believed. In reality they had no free choice to choose anything because that is not how human beings work. Your subconscious mind receives input and quickly makes a decision. Your conscious mind then goes through a slower process of inventing a story to justify that decision in a way that makes you believe you had the free will to choose the choice. The ‘choice’ was a self-created illusion which is why this clip ends in the results it does. The choice to join or not join the Republican party is the same as the choices in this clip.

If you have absolute control over the stimulus given to a human you can control their behavior absolutely. Humans have no free will. It may be impossible to control absolutely every piece of stimulus given to a human but even controlling a significant portion can lead to significant control. You can get people to think invading Ukraine is justified. You can get people to think exterminating Jews is justified. You can get people to think enslavement of other humans is justified.

This, in a nutshell, is the danger of social media. It curates a set of stimulus. If you can control that then you have a truly frightening amount of control over people. None of this is to say people aren’t morally culpable because I believe they are, but to get there requires a much larger philosophical discussion on what morals are.

So, as I said above, your argument is that none of us are actually morally culpable?

 

[Al-O-Meter]

So, as I said above, your argument is that none of us are actually morally culpable?

...And as I said in the post you quoted: "None of this is to say people aren’t morally culpable because I believe they are, but to get there requires a much larger philosophical discussion on what morals are."

 

[gandalfe]

...And as I said in the post you quoted: "None of this is to say people aren’t morally culpable because I believe they are, but to get there requires a much larger philosophical discussion on what morals are."

Sorry, I glossed over the wall-o-text.

How are we morally culpable if, as you claim, we have no choice?

 

[Deleted member 365]

They figure it out. I had teachers make snide comments about Mormons because they overheard kids talking about seminary. My kids had teachers ask them to write "opinion" pieces on current events, then grade them down for having the wrong opinion. They can also just make it part of the curriculum to emphasize one political viewpoint over another. The kids with opposing views get worse grades. It happens at the collegiate level too. Teachers affect what kids believe in so many different ways it's easy to manipulate them in ways they want to. Indoctrination can happen in many different environments. It isn't the same as a racist teacher for many reasons. But that doesn't make it right.

Religious-political teachers are particular dangerous because they see what they are doing as "true", or don't even recognize it at all because it's just their nature. If they can ostracize a kid for having the "wrong"political views, well that's just serving the One True Party, which is only good and right, right? In fact, it isn't ostracizing, it's just the nature of good vs evil taking it's natural course.

It makes me think of the last vignette in The Ballad Of Buster Scruggs. A few people on a stage coach get into a discussion about what types of people there are. The hyper-religious woman makes it very clear there are only 2 types, and treats it as more than self-evident, but a virtual fact of nature and the universe. Per the holy bible there are only 2 types: the just and the sinners. Any argument to the contrary is met with derision and disgust. She can't even fathom a different point of view, let alone entertain it as even possibly meaningful. Same with a religious-political teacher. Students with opposing views will be put down in ways the teacher may not even realize because it's so ingrained in their being that they have the True Party, so all others are just wrong.

That's too bad. Most of the educators I know value respecting students and their religious views.

Just curious, how many of these teachers you had were white non-Mormons? Were the majority male or female? The reason I ask is that the lack of diversity in educational leadership (teachers, principals, district leaders, professors, and textbook publishers) has effects. I think that's why it's important for education to attract professionals from different backgrounds. I think breaking up a homogenous population in charge of education can lead to better outcomes where different views are respected. Historically, we've seen what can happen when we don't tether education to facts, evidence, and reality. Believing that America was founded as a Christian nation or believing in The Lost Cause is the result from efforts of legislators, educators, publishers, school boards, etc to promote their view of history over reality. You don't get millions of Americans in denial over evolution, climate change, and the 2020 election without a concerted effort to promote

May I ask, why didn't you become an educator?

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Sorry, I glossed over the wall-o-text.

How are we morally culpable if, as you claim, we have no choice?

For the same reason I believe a car can be considered unreliable if it has no choice in breaking down. It is about the behavior of the thing falling outside the bounds of what I'd consider reliable.

Take the example of child molesters. There is a massive recidivism rate among child molesters. When people get wired that way they are wired that way. Knowing that, I think a child molester molesting a child the second time is still immoral. The moral awfulness of that act isn't dismissed by the behavior being compulsive.

 

[Deleted member 365]

“The deep state”

 

[Gameface]

“The deep state”

I love when people simultaneously think we're the victims of massive highly complex conspiracies that manage to remain functional and effective yet they can prove it's a conspiracy because in a pile of bodies some of the bodies move around. Like on the one hand this is taking some galaxy brain level organization, planning, execution, but on the other they release all the evidence to expose themselves by making a mistake you'd think less of a 5 year old for making.

Yeah, you're so ****ing clever. These people who control the world make videos with wooden guns and don't edit out the bodies moving around which is below the standards of even the smallest low budget movie studio in Hollywood.

 

[Gameface]

This is who I feel like I'm talking to every time someone starts telling me about a conspiracy theory they believe in.

 

[Rubashov]

That family needs to be put against a wall.

 

[Rubashov]

Fear and hate are powerful motivators. They unite (mob mentality), they motivate to action, after all they are usually centered around a primal need to protect oneself and one's "clan", so to speak. Flight or fight kicks in and if enough of them opt to fight, well most of the rest will join in too. And the demagogues that are good at tapping into that fear and hatred have committed most of the most atrocious acts in the history of mankind.

Reads like a description of my sex life.

 

[Rubashov]

While I may not agree with his hating all Republicans, there's a big difference between being a Republican and being Jewish or black. Can you guess what it is?

Hating poor people?

 

[Deleted member 365]

This is who I feel like I'm talking to every time someone starts telling me about a conspiracy theory they believe in.

How did you find a video of Babe?