The *OFFICIAL* Russia Is About To Invade Ukraine Thread

[SteakNEggs]

Just some recent history for those who think Ukraine will be peaceful. Our education has failed you. Ukraine is corrupt and also a violent nation. This is stuff the media refuses to tell you... Peace though...

Escalating War in the Donbas

On the eve of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the build up of Russian troops on the eastern border of the Donbas was heavily reported. Unreported was the build up on Donbas’s western border that preceded it. Ukraine had massed 60,000 elite troops, accompanied by drones, along its eastern border with Donbas. According to Richard Sakwa, Professor of Russian and European Politics at Kent, there was “genuine alarm” that Ukraine was about to escalate the seven year old civil war and invade the largely ethnic Russian Donbas region.

And the Ukrainian troops were not just gathering on the border. According to UN data, 81.4% of ceasefire violations and civilian casualties in the past seven years had occurred in the “self-proclaimed ‘republics’.” Critically, though, In February 2022, the Border Observer Mission of the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) observed a dramatic increase in Ukrainian artillery shelling into the Donbas. According to OSCE monitors, between February 18 and February 20, two thirds to three quarters of the shelling was launched from the Ukrainian side of the line into the Russian side.

 

[Mongoose]

The resolution of peace will happen when all Russian forces have removed themselves from Ukraine, including Crimea. Russia can make peace happen latter today if they want peace.

I already know what the warmongers want like fish and log and gf. I was talking to steak and sirkickyass. They seem to be trying to work through the issue and think beyond what they hear on cnn by the warmongering dems.

 

[Mongoose]

Just some history for those who think Ukraine will be peaceful. Our education has failed you. Ukraine is corrupt and also a violent nation.

Escalating War in the Donbas

On the eve of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the build up of Russian troops on the eastern border of the Donbas was heavily reported. Unreported was the build up on Donbas’s western border that preceded it. Ukraine had massed 60,000 elite troops, accompanied by drones, along its eastern border with Donbas. According to Richard Sakwa, Professor of Russian and European Politics at Kent, there was “genuine alarm” that Ukraine was about to escalate the seven year old civil war and invade the largely ethnic Russian Donbas region.

And the Ukrainian troops were not just gathering on the border. According to UN data, 81.4% of ceasefire violations and civilian casualties in the past seven years had occurred in the “self-proclaimed ‘republics’.” Critically, though, In February 2022, the Border Observer Mission of the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) observed a dramatic increase in Ukrainian artillery shelling into the Donbas. According to OSCE monitors, between February 18 and February 20, two thirds to three quarters of the shelling was launched from the Ukrainian side of the line into the Russian side.

Dude you are sounding ever crazier- next you'll be talking how NATO continued to expand eastward after WWII, and about the coup in 2014 to overthrow the leadership in Ukraine, how Zolinksky ran on making peace with Russia. Nobody wants to know any of that stuff- don't you know the entire history starts when Russia invaded Ukraine- there was nothing before that.

 

[LogGrad98]

I already know what the warmongers want like fish and log and gf. I was talking to steak and sirkickyass. They seem to be trying to work through the issue and think beyond what they hear on cnn by the warmongering dems.

lol you are losing credibility with each post. No one is warmongering, at all. Please quote my post where I demand we make war. We want peace. There can be peace immediately if Russia goes back to their own country. What we support is Ukraine protecting itself, and I am in favor of our government providing resources for them to successfully defend themselves. That's it. You and steak are definitely cut from the same cloth though, so you have that going for you.

 

[SteakNEggs]

lol you are losing credibility with each post. No one is warmongering, at all. Please quote my post where I demand we make war. We want peace. There can be peace immediately if Russia goes back to their own country. What we support is Ukraine protecting itself, and I am in favor of our government providing resources for them to successfully defend themselves. That's it. You and steak are definitely cut from the same cloth though, so you have that going for you.

Why though? What exactly is our reasoning in this war that's been brewing for over a decade between both parties? What is the endgame here? We've already spent or are on the hook to spend over 120 billion and just yesterday Milley said that they need more money or Ukraine may be in deep trouble. Are we going to fund this for 5 more years, 10+ years? Where is NATO in all of this? They have given a fraction of what we tax payers are giving.

 

[fishonjazz]

I remember when we took some of mexico for the US. Im sure we would all be cool if mexico invaded the US to take back texas or some ****.

 

[SteakNEggs]

I remember when we took some of mexico for the US. Im sure we would all be cool if mexico invaded the US to take back texas or some ****.

Would Ukraine fight our war though? The answer is no. We are funding a majority of Ukraine's war. Would they send us tanks? No. 100 billion? No. Would they put American flags on their profiles? No.

You know why? Because it's not their war.

 

[mongoose01]

You remember that? Wow you’re old.
I think a more accurate hypothetical scenario would be if Russia had put army bases and missiles in Cuba and was expanding to put missiles and bases in Mexico. I don’t think the US would allow for that to happen. Especially if Mexico was bombing our border for 7 years.

 

[Gameface]

I already know what the warmongers want like fish and log and gf. I was talking to steak and sirkickyass. They seem to be trying to work through the issue and think beyond what they hear on cnn by the warmongering dems.

Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine is its own sovereign nation. Russia broke the peace and it's up to Russia to give up their invasion in order to get peace. Ukraine can't stop this war. The U.S. providing defenders with the ability to provide for their own self defense is not a way to prolong the war, it is a way to prevent a conquest.

 

[SteakNEggs]

Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine is its own sovereign nation. Russia broke the peace and it's up to Russia to give up their invasion in order to get peace. Ukraine can't stop this war. The U.S. providing defenders with the ability to provide for their own self defense is not a way to prolong the war, it is a way to prevent a conquest.

Why can't NATO countries in the area do this? Why is it mostly our responsibility?

 

[One Brow]

Trolling to me would be never adding anything of substance

You don't. You add things, but they are rarely substantive.

 

[One Brow]

... we're supposed to carry Ukraine?

We are not carrying Ukraine. Ukrainians are dying for the freedom of their country, not US troops.

 

[One Brow]

Ukraine had massed 60,000 elite troops, accompanied by drones, along its eastern border with Donbas.

How can Ukraine have a border with Donbas when Donbas is a part of Ukraine?

 

[Gameface]

NATO expansion is justification for Russia's invasion of Ukraine? Someone is going to have to explain that one to me (other than SteaknEggs or AIO because they are on ignore and I've made a firm commitment to not look at anything they post. Well, that and they don't explain themselves well in the first place).

 

[SteakNEggs]

NATO expansion is justification for Russia's invasion of Ukraine? Someone is going to have to explain that one to me (other than SteaknEggs or AIO because they are on ignore and I've made a firm commitment to not look at anything they post. Well, that and they don't explain themselves well in the first place).

I've been explaining stuff the entire time. I'll bet you a month ban that you can't specify a single issue where I don't explain myself. But continue to lie onebrow Jr. You accuse me if doing exactly what you did. I answered your long heartfelt post, you just got triggered by my answer because you lied about only a few kids having surgery. Me pointing out your lie is what p* you off.

 

[sirkickyass]

So SteakNEggs and Mongoose, are you actually interested in a real discussion of this topic or is this just a partisan thing?

I'm asking because I don't think either of you know me, but I can pretty much guarantee you my knowledge base on Russia/Ukraine is a LOT larger than either of yours. I speak Russian. I've been to Russia (in 2019). I've been to Ukraine three times. I was in Ukraine last month. I've hosted Belorussians in my home in the US personally, and I know actual professors from Russia who have written extensively about US/Russian relations over the last thirty years. I've met with Ukrainian soldiers fighting in this war, and drank water from a rainbarrel that was converted from an NLAW canister. I've cradled in shelter in an Odessa mall while air raid sirens blared and Iranian drones flew overhead.

I don't rely on random newspaper articles, and I verify a lot of open source materials through Russian-language sources. This isn't hypothetical for me. I even wrote jokes about my learning Russian and about Russian culture on this board nearly six years ago so there's jazzfanz receipts. (https://jazzfanz.com/threads/the-Баба-яга.72634/)

I can tell you that virtually every sentence in your posts above relies on simple wrong assumptions or misstatements of fact about the region. Do you actually want to talk about it, or are you going to discount anything I have to say because it conflicts with the idea that Democrats are wrong about Ukraine/Russia? Serious question.

 

[SteakNEggs]

So SteakNEggs and Mongoose, are you actually interested in a real discussion of this topic or is this just a partisan thing?

I'm asking because I don't think either of you know me, but I can pretty much guarantee you my knowledge base on Russia/Ukraine is a LOT larger than either of yours. I speak Russian. I've been to Russia (in 2019). I've been to Ukraine three times. I was in Ukraine last month. I've hosted Belorussians in my home in the US personally, and I know actual professors from Russia who have written extensively about US/Russian relations over the last thirty years. I've met with Ukrainian soldiers fighting in this war, and drank water from a rainbarrel that was converted from an NLAW canister. I've cradled in shelter in an Odessa mall while air raid sirens blared and Iranian drones flew overhead.

I don't rely on random newspaper articles, and I verify a lot of open source materials through Russian-language sources. This isn't hypothetical for me. I even wrote jokes about my learning Russian and about Russian culture on this board nearly six years ago so there's jazzfanz receipts. (https://jazzfanz.com/threads/the-Баба-яга.72634/)

I can tell you that virtually every sentence in your posts above relies on simple wrong assumptions or misstatements of fact about the region. Do you actually want to talk about it, or are you going to discount anything I have to say because it conflicts with the idea that Democrats are wrong about Ukraine/Russia? Serious question.

What makes you think I'm not besides others lying about me being a troll? I have given you nothing but respect. You are listening to the bully crowd that has offered nothing but insults while I've responded to you.

I asked you specifically what the endgame is here and you even admitted to my concern that Ukraine is a historically corrupt country. Russia started mobilizing days after Biden reallowed Putin to start with on Nord. Right?

 

[sirkickyass]

What makes you think I'm not besides others lying about me being a troll? I have given you nothing but respect. You are listening to the bully crowd while I've responded to you.

Well one of your major points was about Ukraine "massing 60,000 troops along its border with Donbass" like it was proof they were aggressive. That's pretty much straight Russian propaganda because Donbass is a Ukrainian region. Even to say something like that is a pretty significant sign of ideological pre-commitment.

It's really like saying "The US was the aggressor because they massed 60,000 troops along its border with Applachia." It sounds ludicrous and unserious.

 

[sirkickyass]

This sentence and link also make me doubt your seriousness.

According to Richard Sakwa, Professor of Russian and European Politics at Kent, there was “genuine alarm” that Ukraine was about to escalate the seven year old civil war and invade the largely ethnic Russian Donbas region.

First of all, you've said a lot of positive things about Trump, so it's a REAL eyebrow raiser to then quote an article from Jacobin magazine. That's way way way on the opposite end of the spectrum, and has some pretty obvious reasons they might not oppose the reformation of the USSR

Second "seven year old civil war" is a laugher because that makes it sound like there was some independent conflict that originated inside the LNR/DNR and it was Donbas partisans who tried to declare independence (on the same day Russian annexed Crimea by conincidence)

Third, "largely ethnic Russian Donbas region" is a real headscratcher. Would love to hear what makes someone an "ethnic Russian" living in Ukraine, outside of primary language spoken, given that all Russians claim to be the descendants of a medieval civilization based in Kyiv.

It's one of those sentences that like literally every word drips with "doesn't know anything about this."

 

[SteakNEggs]

Well one of your major points was about Ukraine "massing 60,000 troops along its border with Donbass" like it was proof they were aggressive. That's pretty much straight Russian propaganda because Donbass is a Ukrainian region. Even to say something like that is a pretty significant sign of ideological pre-commitment.

It's really like saying "The US was the aggressor because they massed 60,000 troops along its border with Applachia." It sounds ludicrous and unserious.

Sure... I'm not sure where you're coming from though.

"Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) monitors, detailing explosions in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions on February 18 and February 19-20, clearly suggest the contrary. Those big red splotches on the map around Donetsk and Luhansk show an intense bombardment. Overall, there were over 1400 shell and mortar detonations on February 18, about 2,000 explosions over the next two days. From the two maps, it looks like about two-thirds to three-fourths were on the Russian side of the line. This level of activity marks a big change. In early February, the previous thirty-day average was around sixty explosions per day."

Is this data wrong? Looks to me that both sides wanted action.

Will Tensions in Ukraine Boil Over?

The Ukrainian escalations of the last week, together with Russia’s recognition of the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics and its movement of forces into their territories, advance the conflict to a new level.

nationalinterest.org