Transgender and sports

[oneye]

I also don't have all the answers for trans sports. But the "fairness" thing does give me a chuckle.

When I played high school football, I played against Paul Kruger, Harvey Unga, Matt Reynolds, and Britain Covey's oldest brother. You could've sawed off one of Covey's legs and I probably still couldn't have caught him on a QB scramble. Kruger, Reynolds, and Unga? Could have choked the life out of me and probably 99 percent of my teammates if they had wanted. Technically, we were all young men (so I guess it was fair?) but to claim that it was actually fair would be laughable. This might be emasculating (but it's true, I'm old enough to admit it now) but the gap between a trans student playing sports is far smaller than the gap of me playing against those other male athletes. If fairness was the issue then I had no business being in the same stadium let alone the same field as those other male athletes. So this idea that "biological men" are going to dominate women's sports isn't valid to me and the debate of "mediocre biological male athletes" rushing to play women's sports doesn't seem realistic (although I'm open to hearing opposing views on this).

Anyway, I'm not saying that genuine concern over the integrity of women's sports isn't valid. But this concept of fairness is interesting. If fairness was the issue you'd have to adjust region sports in Utah to not only deal with school size but with athletic talent. How is it fair that Taylorsville who has won 5 games in 5 years and hasn't had a winning season since 2015 is in the same classification as Corner Canyon, who has had 2 undefeated seasons and has lost 3 games since 2017? Fairness? Wyoming's football team is in Div I along with Alabama's. Google tells me that Wyoming's football revenue was $13 million last year. Alabama's was nearly $200 million. Fairness? I guess they're all dudes, so it's like totally fair or something.

anyway, more of a critique than anything constructive.

At the end of the day, I'm still learning more about trans sports issues. My main concern is with the actual trans student. I don't envy any of these kids. I really feel for them. Not a single one has had an easy life and often they hate themselves more than anything else. They know and feel something is different about them. It's not a "choice" to go out and dominate sports. All I've ever known have merely wanted to blend in, have friends, feel loved. Often, that's just out of their grasp because being trans typically ostracizes them from religion, friends, family, and society.

There’s plenty of discussion needed when we are championing and propping up womens sports and then pretending the biological line is super blurred. Those approaches are very contradictory. I do agree with you that I feel bad for the kids in this specific legislation and they certainly shouldn’t be banned from participation or further ostracized than they likely already are.

 

[One Brow]

I wasn't a jerk at all. You must remember wrong.

You asked the woman directly if she was trans, unless I'm remembering the story incorrectly. Would you have asked a woman if she gained weight because you though her picture looked slimmer than she did in person?

I was put in an awkward situation and wasn't told the whole truth beforehand.

The only awkwardness was that you weren't attracted to your date.

 

[Archie Moses]

You asked the woman directly if she was trans, unless I'm remembering the story incorrectly. Would you have asked a woman if she gained weight because you though her picture looked slimmer than she did in person?


The only awkwardness was that you weren't attracted to your date.

I was on a straight dating app. She photoshop'd her pics and immediately when I met her I could tell she was trans.

There was nothing wrong with asking that in that circumstance. It's not what I'm looking for nor do I think it was right of her to not disclose that.

Preferences and being direct is not being a jerk. I was put in an incredibly uncomfortable situation and think I handled it pretty damn well.

 

[One Brow]

I mean sure, but pretending that’s just normal, or every case is a just that cut and dry is an agenda driven lie by yourself.

I'm not sure who "yourself" is supposed to be, because I've never tried to claim something is "normal" (a meaningless term in the vast array of human diversity), and I've certainly never said anything other these are issues best decided by governing agencies of the various sports leagues because they are complex and different things matter in different venues. I find the irony of your response to "Denying an over-simplified categorization" with "cut and dry" to be especially telling regarding your inability to comprehend here.

“Biological differences don’t exist when you heavily medicate them to change them”. K.

Again, you responded to "is not denying that differences exist" with "differences don't exist". Are you capable at all of responding to what the words in front of you say? It's impossible to have a conversation with someone who doesn't bother to read; you might as talk to babe.

Every person is different from every other person biologically. So, biological differences always exist.

Why are humans so convinced we are outside the realm of a normal species on this planet and that what you’re saying here has nothing to do with normal and natural biology?

On the contrary, what I am saying is reflective of "normal" (unless you have some weird meaning for this term) and natural biology as represented in vertebrates throughout the order.

I agree there’s a spectrum of masculine and feminine, and yes anyone with a firm position either way on this is over-simplifying it, including yourself.

Again, I'm not sure who "yourself" is here, since I think a one-dimensional spectrum is too limiting. For example, it does not account for genders that are neither male nor female.

The entire transgender discussion is one that’s very far from decided. I do think those who call people anti-trans or transphobic because they differ on a complicated discussion is stupid and wrong.

I don't know what "decided" would mean here.

I disagree with @Gameface on the topic of trns women in sports, but neither of us has called the other transphobic. It takes more than disagreement.

 

[Archie Moses]

The average republican/libertarian asshat thinks about women's sports 0% of the time other than to make jokes about it, but suddenly trans people are in the equation and it's "OMG are we really going to let this happen to our beloved past-time of women's sports?"

The irony in this comment.

 

[One Brow]

I was on a straight dating app. She photoshop'd her pics and immediately when I met her I could tell she was trans.

Yes, she was a straight, trans woman on a straight dating app. No deception.

There was nothing wrong with asking that in that circumstance. It's not what I'm looking for nor do I think it was right of her to not disclose that.

Did you disclose all the information regarding your genitals in your dating profile?

Preferences and being direct is not being a jerk.

I agree that having preferences is not being a jerk, and I don't chide you for them.

If you had a preference for fat/thin women, and your date had been thinner/fatter than her picture, would you have felt the need to be so direct?

I was put in an incredibly uncomfortable situation and think I handled it pretty damn well.

I understand you think so, because you feel like you were betrayed/tricked. I get that. This is how paternalism has taught you to react.

 

[One Brow]

The irony in this comment.

Trolls gonna troll (not meaning you, here).

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

The irony in this comment.

Pls point it out

 

[Archie Moses]

Yes, she was a straight, trans woman on a straight dating app. No deception.


Did you disclose all the information regarding your genitals in your dating profile?


I agree that having preferences is not being a jerk, and I don't chide you for them.

If you had a preference for fat/thin women, and your date had been thinner/fatter than her picture, would you have felt the need to be so direct?


I understand you think so, because you feel like you were betrayed/tricked. I get that. This is how paternalism has taught you to react.

Just take the L, dude.

You're wrong on this.

 

[One Brow]

This is totally a losing issue, I can totally agree with this. I think it is ostracizing a lot of people. I do think it's probably hurting trans causes. Politically? It's a real rock around a politician's/political party's neck.

I agree here, but that just makes the fight more important.

 

[One Brow]

Just take the L, dude.

You're wrong on this.

What's the part I'm wrong about? Did you talk about your genitals, and if not, why should she?

 

[Archie Moses]

Pls point it out

I'd love to, but if I pointed it out, I'm afraid it upset the pitch fork crowd.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I'd love to, but if I pointed it out, I'm afraid it upset the pitch fork crowd.

C'mon Archie, you're a big bad independent thinker. You don't care what they think

 

[One Brow]

There’s plenty of discussion needed when we are championing and propping up womens sports and then pretending the biological line is super blurred. Those approaches are very contradictory.

That's why the various leagues should e setting the standards for the athletes that participate. Each needs to draw their own line in the way that works best for them.

 

[Archie Moses]

C'mon Archie, you're a big bad independent thinker. You don't care what they think

Just reread your comment and give it a lil thought. You're not wrong.

People do care more about sports with those who are born male (sex.)

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

This **** won't get interesting until we are talking about a trans woman's tennis champion who starts breaking Serena's records

 

[Archie Moses]

Did you disclose all the information regarding your .genitals in your dating profile?

We have to live in an alternate reality or you have no idea how dating works.

 

[One Brow]

We have to live in an alternate reality or you have no idea how dating works.

I already knew the answer was no, and I remember how dating works.

Have you at all, for a moment, put yourself in the position of the woman on that date? What do you think you would have done differently in her shoes?

 

[Archie Moses]

I already knew the answer was no, and I remember how dating works.

Have you at all, for a moment, put yourself in the position of the woman on that date? What do you think you would have done differently in her shoes?

I would have disclosed I was trans to make sure my prospective date was on the same page.

Not too much to ask for, pretty simple, understandable and reasonable.

Put yourself in my shoes.

 

[Avery]

Our state legislature is beyond worthless. Expect that they'll try and overrule Cox's veto because they can't stand to be defeated for such red meat for their fans.