Transgender and sports

[One Brow]

I would have disclosed I was trans to make sure my prospective date was on the same page.

Not too much to ask for, pretty simple, understandable and reasonable.

Put yourself in my shoes.

Disclosing you are a trans woman is setting yourself up for humiliation and beatings by people pretending to want to date you. She should have greatly decreased her physical safety so you could feel more comfortable?

However, describe your shoes more. What did she do to wrong you?

 

[oneye]

That's why the various leagues should e setting the standards for the athletes that participate. Each needs to draw their own line in the way that works best for them.

I agree with this, in regards to public schools though I think that's when the conversation gets really complicated.

 

[oneye]

I'm not sure who "yourself" is supposed to be, because I've never tried to claim something is "normal" (a meaningless term in the vast array of human diversity), and I've certainly never said anything other these are issues best decided by governing agencies of the various sports leagues because they are complex and different things matter in different venues. I find the irony of your response to "Denying an over-simplified categorization" with "cut and dry" to be especially telling regarding your inability to comprehend here.


Again, you responded to "is not denying that differences exist" with "differences don't exist". Are you capable at all of responding to what the words in front of you say? It's impossible to have a conversation with someone who doesn't bother to read; you might as talk to babe.

Every person is different from every other person biologically. So, biological differences always exist.


On the contrary, what I am saying is reflective of "normal" (unless you have some weird meaning for this term) and natural biology as represented in vertebrates throughout the order.


Again, I'm not sure who "yourself" is here, since I think a one-dimensional spectrum is too limiting. For example, it does not account for genders that are neither male nor female.


I don't know what "decided" would mean here.

I disagree with @Gameface on the topic of trns women in sports, but neither of us has called the other transphobic. It takes more than disagreement.

I'll start with the last comment, I wasn't referring to you in that comment, it was a general comment and something I've seen plenty of.

As for "normal" maybe "natural" is better? Maybe when you have to heavily medicate something to happen, it's not a natural process? Sure every person is different biologically, but that's not necessarily the argument you're making at times. Saying you have to heavily medicate something to happen is intentionally and unnaturally creating biological anomalies. Some do in fact occur naturally, but much of transgender discussions revolves around purposely and unnaturally creating those anomaly's when they did not exist until medicated to exist in a person.

 

[oneye]

Our state legislature is beyond worthless. Expect that they'll try and overrule Cox's veto because they can't stand to be defeated for such red meat for their fans.

They're not going to try, they already know they have the votes to do it.

 

[Archie Moses]

Disclosing you are a trans woman is setting yourself up for humiliation and beatings by people pretending to want to date you. She should have greatly decreased her physical safety so you could feel more comfortable?

However, describe your shoes more. What did she do to wrong you?

I disagree. Not disclosing it is setting herself possible harm. It's unfortunate, but true. I can link you cases of it.

What did she do wrong? She never disclosed she was trans and highly photoshop'd and manipulated her pictures.

Like it or not, but being into transgender people is a sexual preference that is different than being straight or gay.

I'm done discussing this with you.

 

[gandalfe]

I disagree. Not disclosing it is setting herself possible harm. It's unfortunate, but true. I can link you cases of it.

What did she do wrong? She never disclosed she was trans and highly photoshop'd and manipulated her pictures.

Like it or not, but being into transgender people is a sexual preference that is different than being straight or gay.

I'm done discussing this with you.

I'm sure all trans people are glad you're so much more of an expert on their specific safety concerns than they are.

You're saying that it's safer to set yourself up as a target where people who want to beat you up can find you easily.

I find it interesting that trans people are the only ones who digitally manipulate their photos, or post ones that are in any way misleading, on dating sites.

 

[Archie Moses]

I'm sure all trans people are glad you're so much more of an expert on their specific safety concerns than they are.

You're saying that it's safer to set yourself up as a target where people who want to beat you up can find you easily.

I find it interesting that trans people are the only ones who digitally manipulate their photos, or post ones that are in any way misleading, on dating sites.

I never said I'm an expert.

Are you saying disclosing they're trans before their date compromises their safety more than hiding it?

Interesting if that's the case. I know I've read some pretty disgusting articles about people finding out their date is trans and beating them and murdering them.

I have such a hot take on this apparently.

 

[One Brow]

As for "normal" maybe "natural" is better? Maybe when you have to heavily medicate something to happen, it's not a natural process? Sure every person is different biologically, but that's not necessarily the argument you're making at times. Saying you have to heavily medicate something to happen is intentionally and unnaturally creating biological anomalies. Some do in fact occur naturally, but much of transgender discussions revolves around purposely and unnaturally creating those anomaly's when they did not exist until medicated to exist in a person.

For me, crippling COPD is natural. 18 years ago I had days where I had to sit down, gasping for breath, after a half-flight of stairs; I heavily medicate to create the abnormal condition where I can climb stairs, walk for several blocks, exercise, etc.. Cancer is natural, surgery/chemotherapy/radiation is the biological anomaly. 'Natural' does not mean 'better' or even 'appropriate'. Creating anomalies does not mean degrading or making something worse.

I agree with this, in regards to public schools though I think that's when the conversation gets really complicated.

I agree it's complicated. The first question needs to be: what is the mission of this sports program in the public schools? All of the decisions should flow from that mission.

 

[One Brow]

I disagree.

Frankly, this means nothing without evidence.

Not disclosing it is setting herself possible harm. It's unfortunate, but true. I can link you cases of it.

It's a case of relative risk. Do you honestly think I can't link you to cases of trans women saying they are trans on a dating website, and having been attacked set-up dates?

If you really want to understand which behavior is riskier, go read up on it; actual stories by trans women. If you just want to justify your jerkish behavior, continue on.

What did she do wrong? She never disclosed she was trans and highly photoshop'd and manipulated her pictures.

I remember dating sites where people failed to disclose all sorts of things. One person I asked out was pretending to be her roommate for a couple of hours. Other people lie about their height, race, weight, etc. It's part and parcel of on-line dating (and of dating before there even was on-line dating). I never used it to justify acting like a jerk.

I'm sure you've come across other women who used altered pictures. Why was this one in particular worse than so many others?

Like it or not, but being into transgender people is a sexual preference that is different than being straight or gay.

You're casting a pretty wide net here. Nicole Maines doesn't look anything like Amy Schneider, and I've met cis women who resemble either of them.

If trans woman was a sexual orientation, you'd have people who primarily dated trans women. Do you know any?

I'm done discussing this with you.

Good. Less embarrassment for you.

I mean all this effort you're going through to justify being rude, when, with a little reflection, you could probably see why you could have been politer and not made someone feel bad. What's behind all that defense your playing?

 

[oneye]

For me, crippling COPD is natural. 18 years ago I had days where I had to sit down, gasping for breath, after a half-flight of stairs; I heavily medicate to create the abnormal condition where I can climb stairs, walk for several blocks, exercise, etc.. Cancer is natural, surgery/chemotherapy/radiation is the biological anomaly. 'Natural' does not mean 'better' or even 'appropriate'. Creating anomalies does not mean degrading or making something worse.

Yes, but I think the complicating factor is how you treat this. Is it a delusion that you treat the symptoms, such as you see in people with mental issues that reality isn’t what they perceive it to be, or do you treat them in a way to make how they feel a reality. Many mental issues are delusion. No the radio isn’t talking to you, no the color of those cars doesn’t mean someone is watching you. In those cases we medicate to suppress what is clearly not reality. Biologically it is not reality until it is medicated to become reality in a lot of cases.

 

[Archie Moses]

Why is it that if you say something on here then people take that and run with it? Just because I say one thing doesn't mean I think another thing is irrelevant, doesn't happen, is obsolete, or that I'm an expert on it.

You dudes really love to argue blue/red, left/right.

Me: I like onions.

JazzFanz member: So you think tomatoes aren't good too?

Gawd damn it.

 

[One Brow]

Interesting if that's the case. I know I've read some pretty disgusting articles about people finding out their date is trans and beating them and murdering them.

I fully acknowledge that happens. Further, gandalfe and I really are the wrong people to convey this to you. If you are really interested in why a trans woman would feel safer not broadcasting their status on a dating, read some trans women bloggers discussing dating sites, and dating generally.

 

[One Brow]

Yes, but I think the complicating factor is how you treat this. Is it a delusion that you treat the symptoms, such as you see in people with mental issues that reality isn’t what they perceive it to be, or do you treat them in a way to make how they feel a reality. Many mental issues are delusion. No the radio isn’t talking to you, no the color of those cars doesn’t mean someone is watching you. In those cases we medicate to suppress what is clearly not reality.

It's sad that you think you're making a relevant point here. Being trans is not a mental issue.

Biologically it is not reality until it is medicated to become reality in a lot of cases.

Liking repairing the spine of a person born with spina bifida?

 

[One Brow]

Why is it that if you say something on here then people take that and run with it? Just because I say one thing doesn't mean I think another thing is irrelevant, doesn't happen, is obsolete, or that I'm an expert on it.

Start here:

Should a trans woman be required to identify as such on a dating site?

Answer (1 of 51): Yes they should. It's not rocket science. Why would you want to start talking to someone without being upfront about yourself? Straight men aren't into transwomen it's simple. Stop mixing them on with real women. Tired of seeing Adams apples and men's jawlines when looking for f...

www.quora.com

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Our state legislature is beyond worthless. Expect that they'll try and overrule Cox's veto because they can't stand to be defeated for such red meat for their fans.

That is one way to look at it I suppose. The other way to look at it is: democracy. The legislature is the democratic branch of our republic, and as such are supposed to represent the will of the people. The democratic legislative branch of our republic can be overruled by the non-democratic judicial branch because we are a republic, but it is folly to be mad at the legislative branch for doing what is popular. That is the role they are supposed to play in our government. You should be angry if the legislature does what is not popular, and biological males taking opportunity away from biological females in women's sports isn't popular.

 

[oneye]

It's sad that you think you're making a relevant point here. Being trans is not a mental issue.


Liking repairing the spine of a person born with spina bifida?

Even medical professionals will tell you it can be. Frankly it shows just how not open to a discussion on the issue you are. It is absolutely a mental issue, because the biological makeup is rarely reality until you medically induce it to be so. It absolutely starts mentally and pretending it doesn’t is just flat out denial. No the radio isn’t talking to you, no you are not a fully different gender just because you think you are. Now can you medically make that a reality? Sure, but rarely is it actual reality until you make it so.

Now as for your comparison in the 2nd part of this post. It’s a laughably stupid comparison. In most transgender individuals, they are a given gender and pretending that’s entirely malleable is laughably stupid. You same people will pretend you’re so invested in science and then outright deny basic biology. You aren’t interested in conversing you’re interested in an agenda.

There’s certainly a spectrum of gender and masculine vs feminine, but that does not mean you have crossed over into the entirely other sex. To imply it does is just outright denial of basic biology and science. But go on One Brow, you are an all knowing being….who doesn’t understand basic biology.

 

[One Brow]

You should be angry if the legislature does what is not popular,

How about when the popular thing is dehumanizing to a group of people that present no threat to others?

 

[One Brow]

Even medical professionals will tell you it can be.

Insisting that you are cis can also can be a mental issue, when you are not cis. Anything can be a mental issue if what you believe is harmful to yourself or others.

Frankly it shows just how not open to a discussion on the issue you are. It is absolutely a mental issue, because the biological makeup is rarely reality until you medically induce it to be so.

Frankly, you're just showing your abysmal ignorance of the subject if you think there are never biological underpinnings to being trans. I'm open to discussion and disagreement, but I don't open my mind to the point my brain falls out.

No the radio isn’t talking to you, no you are not a fully different gender just because you think you are.

There is nothing to gender but thought and performance. I remember a day when conservatives understood there was a difference between being an adult male and being a man, or between being an adult female and being a woman. Gender is entirely mental and social. That's why several cultures have recognized three or four genders for centuries.

... they are a given gender and pretending ...

They are not pretending. They are not drag queens (usually), they are not putting on an act, they are not faking.

You same people will pretend you’re so invested in science and then outright deny basic biology.

Again, your obvious ignorance of basic biology is the real stumbling block here.

If you are right, here's one that should be easy for you: name a method of determining sex that always matches the gender assigned at birth to a person.

 

[Avery]

I just find it funny that the state legislature cares so much about something that affects 0.000053333% of student athletes and 0.00000123% of our population yet also tells us that we should have stopped caring about Covid a year ago when the mortality rates were closer to 1%.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

How about when the popular thing is dehumanizing to a group of people that present no threat to others?

Welcome to the party pal! That is popular opinion. It is why I've been saying that democracy is dangerous and needs to be constrained by the structures of a republic.