Donald is about to go through some things...

[One Brow]

The far left and far right shouldn’t be running the show.

I don't like Biden. However, to cast him as "far left" is ludicrous. He's firmly in the center.

 

[Deleted member 365]

They don't exist. All the documents were turned over to the National Archives by these former Presidents.


I suggest you do some research on who handles those documents.

The truth is whatever you want it to be. facts, evidence, and objective truth don’t exist. If Ted wants to believe that Obama to have stolen documents, just like Trump, then he’ll decide to believe in that and ignore all reporting that disrupts his belief system. See below:

See this is where we disagree. Main stream media can refute all they want. The problem is most news is not news, it’s propaganda for its political cronies. Fox, CNN etc…. All have an agenda. You just don’t like what I believe to be true. The only truth is your truth and all other truths are invalid. Truth is obviously in the eye of the beholder. This is why we can’t discuss issues. We all have our own truth and we hate the truth of those who appose us. I don’t believe most people are truly looking for what is actually true…. Just the truth of their tribal right or left leaning politics. This is why some believe we are in a civil war already. It emboldens the crazies to be crazier. Leads to Jan 6 situations, riots, etc….

 

[One Brow]

The unassailable facts are:

1`- The US President has absolute power to declassify anything at any time.
2 - The accused has the presumption of innocence in our justice system.

3 - Regardless of classification, every former President is by law expected to turn all the documents over to the National Archives, and Trump did not. Classification status is irrelevant.

 

[One Brow]

The truth is whatever you want it to be. facts, evidence, and objective truth don’t exist.

@Just Ted is acting like 99% of humanity, including some posts from me and some from you. We all have trouble changing our allegiances and opinions.

 

[fishonjazz]

There is no mess at all. You are trying to make a mess to distract from how straight forward this actually is.

Trump said he declassified all of what he ordered sent to Mar-o-Lago when he was President and he had absolute power to have done exactly that. There is a witness who said he was there when Trump declassified those documents but even if there wasn't a witness our justice system gives the presumption of innocence to the accused. It is up to law enforcement to prove Trump did not declassify the material which is essentially impossible to prove. Biden could have reclassified everything but Biden would have to prove that he did because Trump, as the accused, still has the presumption of innocence putting the burden of proof on the accusers. The bigger problem with that idea is Biden claiming ignorance over all of it which wouldn't be the case if he had ordered it all reclassified.

The unassailable facts are:

1`- The US President has absolute power to declassify anything at any time.
2 - The accused has the presumption of innocence in our justice system.

There are at least a half dozen other problems with what the FBI did but if you can't explain your way around the above two facts, and you cannot, there is no need to go beyond that.

You are conveniently forgetting that the classification status doesnt matter for what he is being investigated for.

You should add that to your list of unassailable facts. (We know you wont though)


Sent from my iPad using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Red]

The unassailable facts are:

1`- The US President has absolute power to declassify anything at any time.
2 - The accused has the presumption of innocence in our justice system.

I’m not sure if the following applies, as I am not sure if in fact it has been confirmed as yet that documents pertaining to nuclear weapons were in fact found at Mar-a-Lago, as the Washington Post originally reported. But, if so, this may apply:


View: https://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/watch/why-trump-can-t-declassify-documents-about-nuclear-weapons-145999941911

 

[Deleted member 365]

@Just Ted is acting like 99% of humanity, including some posts from me and some from you. We all have trouble changing our allegiances and opinions.

I think that’s unfair and inaccurate. When we are corrected, we usually react in a better manner. Often I’ve learned from other posters here and have thanked them for correcting me.

While no one enjoys being corrected, there’s a difference between being corrected and taking that correction appropriately vs lashing out and accusing others of being unable to converse in a rational and respectful manner. When Fish asked him for evidence to support his claim, he lashed out at Fish. When he claimed that Trump merely did that which Obama had done (keeping documents) and I provided him with the National Archives statement, he once again, lashed out.

I don’t believe 99 percent of humanity lashes out when they’re asked to provide evidence or provided better more accurate information. I would hope that this would prompt Ted to pursue some introspection. His inability to carry on an evidence based rational conversation about politics might not be the fault of others but with himself. A habit that can be corrected if he so desires.

 

[Red]

What the government’s former top classified records overseer sees in the Mar-a-Lago search

In a dramatic step, agents from the Federal Bureau of Investigation executed a sealed search warrant on Monday at Mar-a-Lago, the Florida property and residence of former president Donald Trump. Hear more from Steve Reilly about this story: Initial reports indicated the search targeted...

www.grid.news

G: Just to clarify, because there seems to be some confusion about this: Can a former president declassify records after leaving office?

BL: Quite frankly, there’s a little bit of confusion even as to what authority an incumbent president has. I’ve seen it referenced in some quarters that presidents have unilateral authority to declassify information at will or even at whim. That’s not even accurate.

There is some classified information that is classified not necessarily pursuant to the President’s Article Two constitutional authority as commander in chief and chief official responsible for foreign relations. And the most notable example of that would be information relating to nuclear weapons, atomic energy — that information is protected by virtue of statute. There is other information that’s protected by virtue of statute, for example, the identity of covert U.S. intelligence operatives. That sort of information and other sensitive intelligence sources and methods are protected pursuant to law, not necessarily protected pursuant to the president’s unilateral classification authority. And likewise, there’s some information that we receive from foreign governments that is protected pursuant to international treaty or bilateral treaties, that likewise carry the force of law.

So even an incumbent president does not have total, unfettered authority to declare information unclassified at will. Certainly, a former president has no authority to declassify any sort of information.

 

[One Brow]

I think that’s unfair and inaccurate. When we are corrected, we usually react in a better manner. Often I’ve learned from other posters here and have thanked them for correcting me.

You react well to corrections from people that you have non-antagonistic relationships with. Less well when you have an antagonistic relationship. I've seen this. This is normal and human.

When Fish asked him for evidence to support his claim, he lashed out at Fish.

I find you characterization of that post unsupported, considering @fishonjazz could have just done a simple web search, as I did.

When he claimed that Trump merely did that which Obama had done (keeping documents) and I provided him with the National Archives statement, he once again, lashed out.

That I agree with.

I don’t believe 99 percent of humanity lashes out when they’re asked to provide evidence or provided better more accurate information.

If anything, 99% is an underestimate.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

You are conveniently forgetting that the classification status doesnt matter for what he is being investigated for.

You should add that to your list of unassailable facts. (We know you wont though)

I'm very aware of what he is being investigated for and it is one of the most vague, "we'll put you in prison for the rest of your life because we don't like you" laws on the books. It is the Espionage Act. When using this same law to prosecute Julian Assange, the indictment was for "conspiracy to obtain national defense information" and "obtaining national defense information" with no definition given for what constitutes "national defense information".

In prosecuting Trump or anyone else they don't like under the Espionage Act, the powers that be could consider anything, birthday menus, that stupid weather map Trump put the Sharpie line on, classified, unclassified, absolutely anything they want to be "national defense information" and convict him on the equivalent of treason merely for possessing whatever they designated "national defense information". The trial would all be behind closed doors because of the national security designation. The prosecutors could show the Sharpied weather map now labeled as "national defense critical" in the secret trial while anonymous sources could leak a fake story to the press the prosecution showed nuclear weapons blueprints and phone records to Chinese spies.

I don't trust Trump as far as I can throw him but I trust the FBI and the DOJ significantly less, especially when it comes to times where they cite vaguely defined yet draconian laws like the Espionage Act. It also doesn't sit well with me that people on your side of the political divide are calling for people they disagree with politically to be publicly executed in the name of national unity.


View: https://twitter.com/BoundingComics/status/1558291045158457346


..And if sacrificing the ex-president in a public execution doesn't sufficiently bring about the healing of America, then how many more should be put to death?

 

[LogGrad98]

I don't like Biden. However, to cast him as "far left" is ludicrous. He's firmly in the center.

Eh, he's left of center, no doubt. But not that much. There are far more crazies out there that make him look straight up moderate.

 

[One Brow]

Eh, he's left of center, no doubt. But not that much. There are far more crazies out there that make him look straight up moderate.

Maybe he's moved left over the years, maybe it's just his team.