Donald is about to go through some things...

[Red]

Red, you are describing the playbook the Democrats have already run.

Hey, AI-O-Meter, thanks for the heads up! But, I just reread that article. It WAS about the concerns many of us have, should Trump and MAGA return to the White House in 2024. It described why Republicans are a threat to our democracy, not the Democrats. You and the MAGA crew just don’t seem to understand that it is the MAGA party that is aiming for illiberal authoritarianism in the United States. Right now, the Democrats do not pose the same threat at all. Trump already tried to institute step 2 for instance:

Second, intimidate the career bureaucracy. On day one of his second term, Trump signs an executive order reinstating an innovation he calls Schedule F federal employment. This designation would effectively turn tens of thousands of civil servants who have a hand in shaping policy into at-will employees. He approved Schedule F in October of his final year in office, but he ran out of time to implement it and President Biden rescinded it.

He’ll implement it next time. Trump will take anything you give him, and then some.

Arizona seems like a good example of where the MAGA party is heading….

Ousted Republican reflects on Trump, democracy and America: ‘The place has lost its mind’

Rusty Bowers stood up to the former president’s demand that he overturn Arizona’s election result. He paid the price but has no regrets

www.theguardian.com

Man, those MAGA folks are serious! Trending fascist maybe….

“In February, a mega “election integrity” bill was introduced into the Arizona legislature that was the culmination of the anti-democratic drift of the party. House bill 2596 would have given the Republican-controlled legislature the power to reject any election result that the majority group didn’t like.

Bowers resoundingly killed off that bill by sending it to languish not in just one house committee, but in all 12 of them. “I was trying to send a definitive message: this is hogwash. Taking away the fundamental right to vote, the idea that the legislature could nullify your election, that’s not conservative. That’s fascist. And I’m not a fascist.”

 

[Red]

This is THE question, IMHO. Tough one to answer, I imagine, since the DOJ can’t very well spell out the contents. But, why he wanted what he kept, apparently what he hid away even, is what I’d like to know…


View: https://twitter.com/sethmoulton/status/1565040562599772161

Don’t let Trump ‘graymail’ his way out from under the Espionage Act

For most of his life, Donald Trump appeared to evade justice by using a combination of bluster, economic intimidation, and legal feints.

thehill.com

 

[The Thriller]

When one party makes antigovernment rhetoric part of its focus, and the other party is progovernment, it does not require the installation of toadies nor any bias in the selection of job candidates. Partisans will self-select, with antigovernment partisans avoiding government work.


1) Veterans are not the current armed forces, and it's been pretty clear recently which party has been trying to increase veteran support and which have been trying to cut it.
2) The officer corps in the Air Force is all-but-explicitly conservative Christian (referenced by their many engagements with the MRRF). The citizens of conservative states are greatly over-represented in the military. It's unlikely the military is some bastion of liberalness.
3) In my personal experience, there were more conservatives than liberals, but not overwhelmingly so.


Some of the Steele dossier was fake/unverified; much of it was verified.


Much like the investigation of Trump was suppressed until after the election of 2016, while the investigation into Clinton was broadcast, shut down, and then re-opened in a highly public manner?


If local and state police are breaking laws, who should be stepping in?


Name some actual crimes that are not being investigated, please. I won't hold my breath.


Thank goodness the Biden administration complied with the court order.

COVID-19 Vaccination and Testing ETS | Occupational Safety and Health Administration

www.osha.gov

I truly wish the Democrats were as powerful as Republicans make them out to be. Then we might actually have universal health care, free college, free pre-k, and fast rail throughout the country. That'd be awesome.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Hey, AI-O-Meter, thanks for the heads up! But, I just reread that article. It WAS about the concerns many of us have, should Trump and MAGA return to the White House in 2024. It described why Republicans are a threat to our democracy, not the Democrats. You and the MAGA crew just don’t seem to understand that it is the MAGA party that is aiming for illiberal authoritarianism in the United States.

You are correct in that I don't understand it because the whole idea is silly. I went right down the list to show you the democrats had already done what the author is worried republicans might do. This latest move by the democrat establishment to label everyone who supported Trump as fascist is an act I find to be highly concerning.

Obviously you agree that Trump supporters should be called fascist because you believe they are fascist. You've said so many times. It is your opinion, but I am curious on your opinion of history as you hold that belief. The last time the world had a fascism problem, the U.S. government decided its business was to kill fascists. Do you believe it was a good thing that the U.S. government set about killing fascists?

 

[Al-O-Meter]

I truly wish the Democrats were as powerful as Republicans make them out to be. Then we might actually have universal health care, free college, free pre-k, and fast rail throughout the country. That'd be awesome.

They don't have the power to defy the laws of economics, but you may see democrats re-establish the internment camps they set up to protect America from possible fascists the last time the democrats had this much institutional power.

 

[Red]

You are correct in that I don't understand it because the whole idea is silly. I went right down the list to show you the democrats had already done what the author is worried republicans might do. This latest move by the democrat establishment to label everyone who supported Trump as fascist is an act I find to be highly concerning.

Obviously you agree that Trump supporters should be called fascist because you believe they are fascist. You've said so many times. It is your opinion, but I am curious on your opinion of history as you hold that belief. The last time the world had a fascism problem, the U.S. government decided its business was to kill fascists. Do you believe it was a good thing that the U.S. government set about killing fascists?

No, I do not think all Trump supporters are fascist. I believe there is a developing fascistic movement in the United States. Led by Trump. It’s not too late to stop it, but I’m not rabidly optimistic. But we’ll see. I would like to believe the American people have it in them to overcome the politics of hate. We really do need a leader who can speak to what we share in common, who can unite us. I do believe it’s going to take a generational leader to bridge our differences. The MAGA crowd needs help, as far as I am concerned. I would like to see healing, and between Q, and conspiracies, and cults of personality, they need help very much. I don’t want them as enemies, they are fellow citizens, and I voted Republican many, many times in my life.

It’s going to continue to be a very difficult period in our history. I always said it’s great to live in exciting times. Took long enough! Lol. Seriously, I wish I were young again, and could have more confidence to believe that of course I’ll live to see Trump get his. Well, I guess I’ll see the start of it, if it comes that is, but the damage he did, in brainwashing gullible people(and btw, I like what you said about the effect of the internet on our politics yesterday) will be so hard to overcome, because once the victimhood meme is firmly in place, (and which he so cultivates), to define Trump, any effort against it is simply seen as continued persecution of the man. So extraordinarily difficult it is to bring people to the point of saying “I was wrong, I should never have been fooled by that conman”. I have long thought that adults, with experience in the ways of the world, should have no problem recognizing a con artist, as transparent as Donald Trump. But no, they either don’t, or they are more willing to back someone who dislikes the same people they do. So, we may be the Disunited States for a generation or more, long past my time on Earth.

In answer to your last point, I’ll just say I think we were on the right side in WWII. But no, I do not think every single Trump supporter is a fascist. Its a developing movement, and I’ve no clear idea how it will turn out. But, I did get my wish to live in exciting times.

I’m rambling. Sitting in library, because the Wi-Fi is out at home, repairs coming tomorrow. So, I’m off, and if you reply, and I don’t get back today, that’s why.

 

[One Brow]

They don't have the power to defy the laws of economics, but you may see democrats re-establish the internment camps they set up to protect America from possible fascists the last time the democrats had this much institutional power.

I'm glad you agree conservatives do horrible things when in power.

I went right down the list

You went down a list of misleading and deceptive statements. I went through it and pointed out the mischaracterizations. You seem very convinced by your list.

 

[The Thriller]

 

[str8line]

No, I do not think all Trump supporters are fascist. I believe there is a developing fascistic movement in the United States. Led by Trump. It’s not too late to stop it, but I’m not rabidly optimistic. But we’ll see. I would like to believe the American people have it in them to overcome the politics of hate. We really do need a leader who can speak to what we share in common, who can unite us. I do believe it’s going to take a generational leader to bridge our differences. The MAGA crowd needs help, as far as I am concerned. I would like to see healing, and between Q, and conspiracies, and cults of personality, they need help very much. I don’t want them as enemies, they are fellow citizens, and I voted Republican many, many times in my life.

It’s going to continue to be a very difficult period in our history. I always said it’s great to live in exciting times. Took long enough! Lol. Seriously, I wish I were young again, and could have more confidence to believe that of course I’ll live to see Trump get his. Well, I guess I’ll see the start of it, if it comes that is, but the damage he did, in brainwashing gullible people(and btw, I like what you said about the effect of the internet on our politics yesterday) will be so hard to overcome, because once the victimhood meme is firmly in place, (and which he so cultivates), to define Trump, any effort against it is simply seen as continued persecution of the man. So extraordinarily difficult it is to bring people to the point of saying “I was wrong, I should never have been fooled by that conman”. I have long thought that adults, with experience in the ways of the world, should have no problem recognizing a con artist, as transparent as Donald Trump. But no, they either don’t, or they are more willing to back someone who dislikes the same people they do. So, we may be the Disunited States for a generation or more, long past my time on Earth.

In answer to your last point, I’ll just say I think we were on the right side in WWII. But no, I do not think every single Trump supporter is a fascist. Its a developing movement, and I’ve no clear idea how it will turn out. But, I did get my wish to live in exciting times.

I’m rambling. Sitting in library, because the Wi-Fi is out at home, repairs coming tomorrow. So, I’m off, and if you reply, and I don’t get back today, that’s why.

Great post Red.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

I'm glad you agree conservatives do horrible things when in power.

Not so much. Until Dubya, not a single war started under a Republican administration, and neocons aren't conservative. That is why they are called neocons and not conservatives.

The internment of Americans during WWII was purely a democrat thing, but I'll admit it wasn't as bad as that time they started a civil war to protect their peculiar institution of slavery. Owning human beings and killing hundreds of thousands of Americans. The democrats really outdid themselves with that one.

It is for good reason that democrats now equating half the country with past enemies the US government not only killed, but used weapons of mass destruction on, makes me a bit nervous.

 

[One Brow]

Not so much.

You just offered an example, while your attempts as D'Souzaing are laughable.

Until Dubya, not a single war started under a Republican administration,

I didn't say "Republican", I said "conservative", which the Democrats were through WWII.

Besides, you're just historically wrong. Just off the top of my head, the Spanish-American War started under McKinley, HW had a conflict in Kuwaiti, and Eisenhower sent the first troops to Vietnam.

That is why they are called neocons and not conservatives.

The "con" in "neocon" comes from conservative.

The internment of Americans during WWII was purely a democrat thing, but I'll admit it wasn't as bad as that time they started a civil war to protect their peculiar institution of slavery.

I disagree about the "purely", but you are otherwise correct. That's what makes conservatives so dangerous.

Owning human beings and killing hundreds of thousands of Americans. The democrats really outdid themselves with that one.

Again, I agree the conservatives gave themselves a really bad name there.

It is for good reason that democrats now equating half the country with past enemies the US government not only killed, but used weapons of mass destruction on, makes me a bit nervous.

You should also be nervous about people willing to storm the halls of Congress. You're not. You seem highly selective in your choices.

 

[Douchebag K]

Don's gonna get away with whatever he did or didn't do. His whole life is a masterclass of evading things catching up with him lol

 

[Douchebag K]

You just offered an example, while your attempts as D'Souzaing are laughable.


I didn't say "Republican", I said "conservative", which the Democrats were through WWII.

Besides, you're just historically wrong. Just off the top of my head, the Spanish-American War started under McKinley, HW had a conflict in Kuwaiti, and Eisenhower sent the first troops to Vietnam.


The "con" in "neocon" comes from conservative.


I disagree about the "purely", but you are otherwise correct. That's what makes conservatives so dangerous.


Again, I agree the conservatives gave themselves a really bad name there.


You should also be nervous about people willing to storm the halls of Congress. You're not. You seem highly selective in your choices.

you guys are both selective with your choices, arguements, points of view. It's pretty exhausting reading these interactions The irony is you both seem pretty reasonable and politics aside would get on quite well.

 

[One Brow]

you guys are both selective with your choices, arguements, points of view. It's pretty exhausting reading these interactions The irony is you both seem pretty reasonable and politics aside would get on quite well.

I fully acknowledge that I was being selective, and have no objection to you pointing that out.

 

[The Thriller]

Fox News is now claiming that the FBI framed Trump. Just like the FBI AND BLM were behind Jan 6.


View: https://twitter.com/acyn/status/1565178360245927937?s=21&t=wpZdOLf_e7GRNcLXe9CMww



View: https://twitter.com/mattgertz/status/1564964300166504448?s=21&t=wpZdOLf_e7GRNcLXe9CMww

 

[Avery]

Don's gonna get away with whatever he did or didn't do. His whole life is a masterclass of evading things catching up with him lol

Don't talk about Spida like that.

 

[fishonjazz]

Trump should be seeking a plea deal — but his lawyers can’t protect him from himself: analysis

LOL

Legal and political experts weighed in on Wednesday after the Department of Justice deployed a "legal battering ram" in a 36-page late-night court filing with 18-pages of exhibits.

Former acting Solicitor General Neal Katyal tweeted, "If this were any normal client, and any normal lawyer, we'd be talking about a plea today."

"Even if FPOTUS had the best lawyers in the world, they can't protect him from himself," Epner explained.

Attorney Teri Kanefield suggested that Trump's lawyers not only can't protect him, but can only get themselves in trouble.

"Trump hires lawyers to do his bidding (not give him legal advice) and this tends to get his lawyers into trouble," Kanefield wrote.

Tristan Snell, who prosecuted Trump University at the New York Attorney General's Office, wrote, "At this point, any lawyer who works with Trump is fully aware of the risks and should know they’re risking disbarment — if not indictment."

"Trump's lawyers always end up needing lawyers," he added.

"Two lawyers for former President Donald J. Trump are likely to become witnesses or targets in the investigation into how he hoarded documents marked as classified at Mar-a-Lago, his Florida estate — and secretly held onto some even after the lawyers claimed all sensitive materials had been returned, legal specialists said.

The lawyers, M. Evan Corcoran and Christina Bobb, handled Mr. Trump’s interactions with the government over a subpoena in May seeking additional material marked as classified. In a court filing late Tuesday, the Justice Department strongly suggested that people in Mr. Trump’s circle concealed documents in defiance of that subpoena, putting a spotlight on the lawyers’ actions."

Corcoran and Bobb weren't the only attorney's implicated in DOJ's late-night filing.

"Just six days before the Justice Department subpoenaed to recover highly sensitive documents housed at Mar-a-Lago, one of Former President Donald Trump’s attorneys scoured the estate searching for records in response to a separate legal matter. The attorney, Alina Habba, told a New York State court that on May 5, she conducted a search of Trump’s private residence and office at Mar-a-Lago that was so 'diligent' it included “all desks, drawers, nightstands, dressers, closets, etc.” She was looking for records in response to a subpoena issued by New York Attorney General Letitia James, who is investigating matters related to the Trump Organization."

Trump attorneys weren't just facing scrutiny in Florida and New York on Wednesday, but also in Georgia.

"John Eastman, the lawyer who developed strategies to block certification of the 2020 election, is 'probably a target' in the criminal investigation into efforts to overturn Donald J. Trump’s election loss in Georgia, one of Mr. Eastman’s lawyers said on Wednesday. Mr. Eastman spent the morning appearing before an Atlanta special grand jury looking into the matter," The New York Times reported.

Attorney Bradley Moss concluded, "Trump simply has the worst lawyers."

Conservative political scientist expert Norm Ornstein predicted Trump lawyers will find themselves incarcerated.

But the legal liability facing Trump's lawyers could put additional pressure on Attorney General Merrick Garland to prosecute Trump, according to former acting Solicitor General Katyal.

"It would be a betrayal of the rule of law for only Trump’s lawyers to go to jail, and not the client himself," Katyal wrote. "I do not see how DOJ can look the other way."

 

[fishonjazz]

MAGA = Make Attorneys Get Attorneys

 

[Red]

The last time the world had a fascism problem, the U.S. government decided its business was to kill fascists. Do you believe it was a good thing that the U.S. government set about killing fascists?

you may see democrats re-establish the internment camps they set up to protect America from possible fascists the last time the democrats had this much institutional power.

It is for good reason that democrats now equating half the country with past enemies the US government not only killed, but used weapons of mass destruction on, makes me a bit nervous.

Please don’t think for one second that I was not fully aware from the get-go of a trap you thought you were setting for me, in the first quote above. I’m certain you were hoping I would simply say “yes, of course we should have been killing fascists”. Of course, I would not have put it quite that way. I would have pointed out the US did not “set out to kill fascists”. We entered the Second World War, and fascist Italy was one of the Axis powers. We “set out” to win a war.

That said, you were hoping I would answer that “yes, we should have been killing fascists”, so that you might say, something along the lines of “aha, then you no doubt would be fine with killing Americans you identify as fascists!?” Or maybe not that demonstrative, just ask me if that means I am also fine and dandy with killing Americans I identify as fascists?

I mean, really. How stupid do you think I am, and while I’m at it, how unhinged do you think I am? Would you say to me “Red, I’ll bet you would volunteer to be a guard at a reeducation camp for American fascists”? Sorry if I ever gave you, or anyone else, the impression that I was an eager mass murderer in waiting. Sorry you’re so fearful. Your fears are misplaced. Mine are not. But I don’t expect you to be manning MAGA established internment camps.

I think Trump is a real danger to our democracy. And by simply falling in line behind him, Republicans are helping birth a fascistic movement. If they cannot oppose him without damaging their own political prospects, then almost by accident, either through open support of his lies, and promoting candidates that support a 100% lying narrative, or simply remaining silent in the face of his lies, they allow the development of a fascistic movement. They enable a Trump-led MAGA, which is very much a poison in the body politic.

I think many Republican elected officials don’t even realize what they are helping birth. They are simply trying to protect their own prospects, and are oblivious to the consequences that may result. They are in a trap, and have no idea how to exit the runaway train driven by Trump, with culture warrior DeSantis in the wings ready to assume the “own the libs, silence the woke” steamroller.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Please don’t think for one second that I was not fully aware from the get-go of a trap you thought you were setting for me ... I mean, really. How stupid do you think I am, and while I’m at it, how unhinged do you think I am?

I don't think you are stupid or unhinged and my goal was not to have you answer yes to a gotcha so obvious it could be seen from orbit. I asked the question to get you to think. Unlike most on this board, I know that you will do some introspection.

Ignoring for a moment all the economic reasons Trumpism isn't fascism, history has shown the leaders of fascist government all come to power the same way: An "emergency" is used to temporarily suspend constitutional protections and concentrate power in the hands of the executive to deal with the emergency. The executive then makes the change permanent. It is how Mussolini came to power. It is how Hitler came to power. It is how the space-nazis in Star Wars came to power.

By far, the biggest threat to bringing about fascism in the United States is California Governor Gavin Newsom who used the emergency of COVID to practically dissolve the legislative branch. Even left-leaning publications were questioning it.

How long will Newsom have one-man rule?

Gov. Gavin Newsom has been governing under an emergency decree, but one judge says he's crossed the line by ignoring state laws.

calmatters.org

Even rulings by the California Supreme Court that Newsome didn't like were simply overridden.

Gov. Newsom Signs Bill Overriding Supreme Court Decision to Halt Enrollment at UC Berkeley – California Globe

californiaglobe.com

I believe there is a high probability that Gavin Newsom will be the next President of the United States and you will cheer it. I do not believe Biden is fascist, but I do think his executive order writing off student loan debt will be used and built upon. The crowd will cheer the centralization of power just as they are cheering the unilateral action to erase student loan debt. The crowds always do. Trump isn't the threat. Trump is the distraction.