The Biden Administration and All Things Politics

[One Brow]

It looks like Abbott and DeSantis did help the migrants.

That was the overall effect. They also lied about what was awaiting them, and didn't notify anyone in Massachusetts about their arrival. That makes me skeptical of their motives. YMMV.

There's interesting contrast between the conservatives cartoons about the incident on the day of the event, and the ones afterwards. People were clearly thinking the MV residents would just kick the people out, instead of helping them. I don't know if DeSantis/Abbott shared that opinion.

It’s official, the boarder is not porous, it’s wide open.

Biden has not removed a single foot of the wall at the border. It was just as open under Trump, only less trafficked.

I don’t hear from anyone on the left in this forum on what they would do.

I don't hear a viable solution from you, either, unless you have a way to wall off the entire border.

$116 billion when we had half the amount of migrants. What could the US do with that money?

Compared to how much that they pay in property taxes, sales taxes, etc.? Assuming a mere $10,000/year on the average, I think we're making out on that deal overall.

 

[Bucknutz]

That was the overall effect. They also lied about what was awaiting them, and didn't notify anyone in Massachusetts about their arrival. That makes me skeptical of their motives. YMMV.

There's interesting contrast between the conservatives cartoons about the incident on the day of the event, and the ones afterwards. People were clearly thinking the MV residents would just kick the people out, instead of helping them. I don't know if DeSantis/Abbott shared that opinion.

They did kick them out. They didn’t invite them to stay at their sanctuary city. 44 hours stay and they shipped them off.

Biden has not removed a single foot of the wall at the border. It was just as open under Trump, only less trafficked.

Why did the boarder crossings double, since Trump left.

I don't hear a viable solution from you, either, unless you have a way to wall off the entire border.

I have and you’re hiding from responding.
You can’t answer it. I have multiple times and you don’t like my answer, yet you won’t give an answer.

Compared to how much that they pay in property taxes, sales taxes, etc.? Assuming a mere $1000/year on the average, I think we're making out on that deal overall.

Once again, you are just responding with out facts:
“with state and local expenditures totaling $88.9 billion and Federal expenditures totaling $45.8 billion, with only approximately $19 billion recouped in taxes.”
That was in 2017, before doubling in boarder crossings.

New FAIR Study: Illegal Immigration Costs $116 Billion Annually | Federation for American Immigration Reform

Illegal immigration to the U.S. costs federal, state and local taxpayers a staggering net cost of $116 billion a year – an increase of some $16 billion compared to previous estimates – according to a new study released by the Federation for American Immigration Reform.

www.fairus.org

So if you do the math, that is about $230 Billion in costs now. We could make college free for the cost of immigration.

Texas spent $10 billion that year. You don’t think one of the wealthiest zip codes in America could take on 50 migrants.

 

[Bucknutz]

The Gatekeepers, abandoning all reason, lol….


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M_w3_-2JfZc

I loved this commercial. Larry David is amazing.

 

[Bucknutz]

If we are comparing apples to apples, in 2017 the US only took in 304,000 migrants. In August of this year we took in 66% of that total alone. There are 500,000 gotaways this year alone.
We are at 2.1 million so far, so that is 7x the amount in 2017.

We spent $116 billion in 2017 on immigration; the numbers to come out this year on the cost of immigration will be unbelievable.

During the Trump Administration, they took in less than 2 million total, over 4 years.

Yet, the posters on the left in this forum will not call it a crisis. As a country we can not keep taking in this amount of people.

What the 2017 Migration Statistics Tell Us About Border Security

The 2017 migration statistics tells us four things that matter greatly for Congress as it considers the 2018 Homeland Security Appropriations bill.

www.wola.org

 

[One Brow]

They did kick them out. They didn’t invite them to stay at their sanctuary city. 44 hours stay and they shipped them off.

Given a choice between a common room in a church (basement?) and private (dormatory) accommodations, how many do you think preferred the public shelter? Do you think the MV residents should have insisted the migrants stay when better rooms were available? If your point was that the migrants should have been given this opportunity without being sent to MV in the first place, I agree. Staying on the streets should not be acceptable. However, that doesn't mean they were kicked out.

Why did the boarder crossings double, since Trump left.

The land is drying up, and there is increased water pressure. This has resulted in a their social structures crumbling, little by little, over the last several years.

I have and you’re hiding from responding.

You have a plan for walling off the rest of the desert? I missed that.

Are you saying that we need to camp the refugees on the southern side of the wall, as Trump did? Are they better off in Mexico, or does that just make you feel better if you can't see them? Is Mexico somehow better able to care for these refugees?

You can’t answer it. I have multiple times and you don’t like my answer, yet you won’t give an answer.

Every answer I have boils down to more resources. We have so much more available to share.

Once again, you are just responding with out facts:
“with state and local expenditures totaling $88.9 billion and Federal expenditures totaling $45.8 billion, with only approximately $19 billion recouped in taxes.”
That was in 2017, before doubling in boarder crossings.

I read the article. That $19 billion was in income taxes (not stated outright, but heavily implied when you read paragraphs 9-11, where they only discusses taxes on income.

Of course, I'm sure a centrist like you is noticed that a right-leaning website gave a slightly slanted version of the story.

So if you do the math, that is about $230 Billion in costs now. We could make college free for the cost of immigration.

Fast Facts: Back-to-school statistics (372)

The NCES Fast Facts Tool provides quick answers to many education questions (National Center for Education Statistics). Get answers on Early Childhood Education, Elementary and Secondary Education and Higher Education here.

nces.ed.gov

11.9 million students attended full time, 7.5 million students attended part time.

That's a little under $15K/year, my local state college (SIU-E) is over $22K when yo include housing/food, and not including books, computers, etc. So, 70% paid for. Of course, that also doesn't account for the money removed from the economy.

Texas spent $10 billion that year. You don’t think one of the wealthiest zip codes in America could take on 50 migrants.

If you point is NIMBY, I agree completely.

 

[One Brow]

Yet, the posters on the left in this forum will not call it a crisis.

Every poster on the left in this forum agrees it's a crisis. Take a breath, and think twice abo0ut the talking points before you repeat them.

As a country we can not keep taking in this amount of people.

That depends upon for how long. This country is full of excess.

 

[Deleted member 365]

Every poster on the left in this forum agrees it's a crisis. Take a breath, and think twice abo0ut the talking points before you repeat them.


That depends upon for how long. This country is full of excess.

America is also undergoing demographic change and is seeing baby boomers enter the nursing home stage. We may wish we had more immigrants to fill jobs and keep our economy innovative and running in the coming future. It's weird to say that we "can't continue to take this amount of people." Based on what? This has been a claim made for at least 200 years. I was just studying text from the 1910s claiming the same thing. Except, at that time the complaint was against immigrants from eastern Europe. It just stinks of xenophobia.

 

[Bucknutz]

Given a choice between a common room in a church (basement?) and private (dormatory) accommodations, how many do you think preferred the public shelter? Do you think the MV residents should have insisted the migrants stay when better rooms were available? If your point was that the migrants should have been given this opportunity without being sent to MV in the first place, I agree. Staying on the streets should not be acceptable. However, that doesn't mean they were kicked out.

So, you’re saying that MV shouldn’t help with migrants because they were staying at a church. But you expect Texas, California to keep them in the street.
They were kicked out. If they weren’t, out of the 48, why didn’t even 1 person get to stay?

The land is drying up, and there is increased water pressure. This has resulted in a their social structures crumbling, little by little, over the last several years.

That has been going on for years, yet only 1.9 million came over the boarder in 4 years. It’s at 3.3 million in the last 2 years. Something changed.

Just the other day you said it was criminals. But you don’t supply any facts.

You have a plan for walling off the rest of the desert? I missed that.

That was Trump’s plan.

Are you saying that we need to camp the refugees on the southern side of the wall, as Trump did? Are they better off in Mexico, or does that just make you feel better if you can't see them?

There it is, the left implying someone is a racist for wanting limits on immigration. It never fails.

Is Mexico somehow better able to care for these refugees?

So America is the only country that should take on all immigrants without limits. Gotcha, no other country can take care of people, including their own country.

Every answer I have boils down to more resources. We have so much more available to share.

We just have so much to share. We can’t even take care of our own.

550,000 homeless

US Most Populous County Has Over 69,000 Homeless People|News|teleSUR

Water Issues

Cities with the most contaminated tap water in the US

Millions of people are exposed to unsafe drinking water every year in the US. Some cities have it worse than others.

www.businessinsider.com

10% Hunger Rate

Food Insecurity In The U.S. By The Numbers

Before the pandemic, the number of families lacking consistent access to enough food had been steadily falling. Today, new estimates point to some of the worst rates of food insecurity in years.

www.npr.org

I read the article. That $19 billion was in income taxes (not stated outright, but heavily implied when you read paragraphs 9-11, where they only discusses taxes on income.

Of course, I'm sure a centrist like you is noticed that a right-leaning website gave a slightly slanted version of the story.

Look at my history, I post articles from the left, middle and right. That’s why I’m a centrist. I don’t post from brietbart or Enoch times or other crazy right wing sites. But I do post from Vox and the Atlantic which is on the left.
The left likes their echo chamber media sites, just like the right does.

11.9 million students attended full time, 7.5 million students attended part time.

That's a little under $15K/year, my local state college (SIU-E) is over $22K when yo include housing/food, and not including books, computers, etc. So, 70% paid for. Of course, that also doesn't account for the money removed from the economy.

Oh, so you want to pay for college housing now as well.

 

[Bucknutz]

America is also undergoing demographic change and is seeing baby boomers enter the nursing home stage. We may wish we had more immigrants to fill jobs and keep our economy innovative and running in the coming future.

Are these jobs to keep the economy running all entry level jobs. Is innovation taking away many entry level or mid level jobs through automation, software and robotics.

Based off your posting history, you think immigrants can only work in food, hospitality and agriculture.

Based off of indeed job postings today:
Restaurants cooks and servers - 275k jobs
Hotel staff - 120,000 jobs
Agriculture - 10,000 jobs

Let’s add in warehouse, retail and construction
Warehouse - 198,000 jobs
Retail - 1 million jobs
Construction - 265k jobs

Everyone we took in this year, would cover all these jobs. Other than restaurants, the rest of these figures include upper management and higher.

It's weird to say that we "can't continue to take this amount of people." Based on what? This has been a claim made for at least 200 years. I was just studying text from the 1910s claiming the same thing. Except, at that time the complaint was against immigrants from eastern Europe.

So we took in more immigrants than 15 state populations. Last year we took in more immigrants that 10 state populations.
What does this do to our infrastructure? Schools over populated, energy issues (California/Texas), housing pricing, food pricing, transportation, welfare etc…

Like I posted before a city who’s population of 8.3 million is struggling with a few thousand people bussed in. Washington DC, 700k population is having a crisis with a few thousand immigrants.
MV can’t even take on 48 people with a 20k population.

Maybe, just maybe people look at the problem at different angles than just race, like you do.

It just stinks of xenophobia.

Again, Thriller do you only think of race when it comes to every topic? I will call you out on it every time. You can’t debate, just imply someone is racist.

 

[Deleted member 365]

I don’t think Trump’s inflammatory rhetoric from the weekend got enough attention. This is bat **** crazy


View: https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1571308887248179200?s=46&t=mEUFBFpWCtiSZuEcdJYIeg


View: https://twitter.com/mikebarnicle/status/1571996786344042498?s=46&t=mEUFBFpWCtiSZuEcdJYIeg

 

[Deleted member 365]

Are these jobs to keep the economy running all entry level jobs. Is innovation taking away many entry level or mid level jobs through automation, software and robotics.

Based off your posting history, you think immigrants can only work in food, hospitality and agriculture.

Based off of indeed job postings today:
Restaurants cooks and servers - 275k jobs
Hotel staff - 120,000 jobs
Agriculture - 10,000 jobs

Let’s add in warehouse, retail and construction
Warehouse - 198,000 jobs
Retail - 1 million jobs
Construction - 265k jobs

Everyone we took in this year, would cover all these jobs. Other than restaurants, the rest of these figures include upper management and higher.



So we took in more immigrants than 15 state populations. Last year we took in more immigrants that 10 state populations.
What does this do to our infrastructure? Schools over populated, energy issues (California/Texas), housing pricing, food pricing, transportation, welfare etc…

Like I posted before a city who’s population of 8.3 million is struggling with a few thousand people bussed in. Washington DC, 700k population is having a crisis with a few thousand immigrants.
MV can’t even take on 48 people with a 20k population.

Maybe, just maybe people look at the problem at different angles than just race, like you do.


Again, Thriller do you only think of race when it comes to every topic? I will call you out on it every time. You can’t debate, just imply someone is racist.

If you desire people to debate, then you’ve got to quit framing what people say and the issues being debated in a completely dishonest manner. Until then, Why would we waste our time? I certainly won’t.

 

[gandalfe]

This has been a claim made for at least 200 years. I was just studying text from the 1910s claiming the same thing. Except, at that time the complaint was against immigrants from eastern Europe. It just stinks of xenophobia.

There were also complaints about all the Germans, and, of course, earlier., in the immortal words from Mel Brooks, "We'll take the n*****s and the c****s, but we don't want the Irish!"

 

[Deleted member 365]

There were also complaints about all the Germans, and, of course, earlier., in the immortal words from Mel Brooks, "We'll take the n*****s and the c****s, but we don't want the Irish!"

Exactly.

 

[Red]

^^ THIS^^

The final line of your post is why the rest of everything doesn't work and why it what you posted earlier was ultimately a call to authoritarianism. It does not matter how much education there is or on what topics. Human nature makes the absence of emotive-based populism a non-reachable utopia in a system that doesn't retard it. It is exactly why democracies always fail and why a republic is more durable. The structure of a republic places limitations that ignore popularity and by extension place limits on populism. Populism is what is really dangerous and there is no limitation on populism in a democracy.

It was not a call for authoritarianism, but a call not to trash society’s elites. Society’s elites are not authoritarian rulers. We have scientific elites, medical science elites, etc. Today, we have seen the spread of a widespread rejection of authority, of received wisdom, in many areas. People distrust science, they distrust medical science, they distrust religious leaders. And political leaders. And I think gatekeepers can include normative, long established political norms, like the peaceful transfer of power. I did not find Rosenberg’s essay, or interview, as a call to establish authoritarianism, but a warning of what is likely to happen in a democracy. The fact that we are a republic does not seem to eliminate this tendency, though, or at the least a significant % of the American electorate seem to have been captured by a cult of personality, and by the rise of irrational-based conspiracism as their default thinking mode. Being a republic did not prevent Trump’s variant of a right wing populism centered in his cult of personality.

Human nature is human nature, but education can at least help many, and though you may not agree, I see Florida governor DeSantis actually working to prevent Florida public school children, and actually right up to the level of public universities, from developing critical thinking skills, which seems antithetical to any true education.

 

[Deleted member 365]

View: https://twitter.com/davidfrum/status/1572207845847826432?s=46&t=UuoUhPZ4juS57CACYingOw


“aMeRiCa Is FuLl!”

We’re already seeing the negative effects in many respects of the labor shortage. In the near future, we may regret not accepting as many immigrants and asylum seekers as we could have. Economically, it’s been one of our greatest advantages over other competing economies over the past century. For those worried about the Chinese economy in this century, being friendly towards immigrants is a no brainer.

Human rights, morality, and economics should guide our immigration policy, not protectionism and xenophobia.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

The fact that we are a republic does not seem to eliminate this tendency

There are no guarantees but the fact that we are a republic has already saved the United States government from sliding into authoritarianism at least once. If not for the guardrails set up at the founding, the United States and most of the world would be controlled by dictators.

By far the greatest populist ever to take control of the United States was FDR, and if the Supreme Court had not struck down FDR's NIRA for overstepping the guardrails then we would have gone the same way as Italy, Germany, Russia, etc. And if we would have gone, then the world would have gone.

As for the elites crying about being questioned or doubted, eff them. No one should be blindly trusted. Show me an elite who whines about being doubted and I'll show you an elite who is pretending to be more certain that they truly are.

 

[One Brow]

So, you’re saying that MV shouldn’t help with migrants because they were staying at a church. But you expect Texas, California to keep them in the street.
They were kicked out. If they weren’t, out of the 48, why didn’t even 1 person get to stay?

"Get to stay"? Again, how many of the migrants do you think would have preferred a (basement?) shelter to their own dormatory room?

That has been going on for years, yet only 1.9 million came over the boarder in 4 years. It’s at 3.3 million in the last 2 years. Something changed.

The pace of the social breakdown is increasing.

Just the other day you said it was criminals. But you don’t supply any facts.

1) I'm not convinced the facts matter to you here; it seems to me that you just don't want the refugees.
2) The facts are easy enough to find, if you do care.

There it is, the left implying someone is a racist for wanting limits on immigration. It never fails.

I didn't mention race at all. That's where your mind went. I did say "where you can't see them", much like we treat our own homeless.

So America is the only country that should take on all immigrants without limits. Gotcha, no other country can take care of people, including their own country.

I didn't say "only", but we have more excess than any other country.

We just have so much to share. We can’t even take care of our own.

We can, we just choose not to.

Look at my history, I post articles from the left, middle and right. That’s why I’m a centrist. I don’t post from brietbart or Enoch times or other crazy right wing sites. But I do post from Vox and the Atlantic which is on the left.

You seem to think that disputes what I said. Humans interpret while they read, which is why you and I can read an article from Vox or FAIR and take away very different things.

Oh, so you want to pay for college housing now as well.

I thought your point was largely correct, to be clear, if one-sided.

Still, assuming we wouldn't want to pay to put a 4-year university within a 3 miles of every person in the US, students will either need cars or a place to live. Anyways, that's well off-topic.

 

[One Brow]

By far the greatest populist ever to take control of the United States was FDR, and if the Supreme Court had not struck down FDR's NIRA for overstepping the guardrails then we would have gone the same way as Italy, Germany, Russia, etc. And if we would have gone, then the world would have gone.

National Industrial Recovery Act (1933)

EnlargeDownload Link Citation: An Act to encourage national industrial recovery, to foster fair competition, and to provide for the construction of certain useful public works, and for other purposes, June 16, 1933; Enrolled Acts and Resolutions of Congress, 1789-1996; General Records of the...

www.archives.gov

The passage of NIRA ushered in a unique experiment in U.S. economic history – the NIRA sanctioned, supported, and in some cases, enforced an alliance of industries. Antitrust laws were suspended, and companies were required to write industry-wide "codes of fair competition" that effectively fixed prices and wages, established production quotas, and imposed restrictions on entry of other companies into the alliances.

The act further called for industrial self-regulation and declared that codes of fair competition – for the protection of consumers, competitors, and employers – were to be drafted for the various industries of the country and were to be subject to public hearings. Employees were given the right to organize and bargain collectively and could not be required, as a condition of employment, to join or refrain from joining a labor organization.

Doesn't seem much like fascism or socialism. It sounds like corporatism.

 

[Bucknutz]

View: https://twitter.com/davidfrum/status/1572207845847826432?s=46&t=UuoUhPZ4juS57CACYingOw


“aMeRiCa Is FuLl!”

Who said America is full? I’ve been saying pausing, building correct infrastructure and then limits to what we need.

We’re already seeing the negative effects in many respects of the labor shortage. In the near future, we may regret not accepting as many immigrants and asylum seekers as we could have.

We will be taking in over 3 million total people this fiscal year. In 2 years at this pace we will take in the total population of El Salvador. 3 years after that, all of Honduras.

Economically, it’s been one of our greatest advantages over other competing economies over the past century.

We have 11 million jobs open in the US today. We have 6 million unemployed. We add in 3 million people next year and we have more people than jobs available. Including jobs the immigrants can’t qualify for.

Now that we have more people then jobs, please tell me why businesses will raise wages to hire people. They have an abundance of people to choose from and can now pay minimum wages.

With low wages, that can’t help with people suffering from high inflation rates. Which will result in more welfare, from food stamps, health insurance, unemployment.

Where are we going to house 6 million more people? We have issues with low income housing as it is.

The Rental Housing Crisis Is a Supply Problem That Needs Supply Solutions

Policymakers must prioritize improving housing access and affordability for low-income households through immediate and long-term investments.

www.americanprogress.org

What schools are we going to put all these kids that come over in. I can post hundreds and hundreds or articles about over crowded schools and issues they are in.

What about our energy in the west, where many of these people are living. Water is drying up and running out of power. 6 million more people will put more stress on this infrastructure.

As the climate dries, American west faces problematic future, experts warn

Two of America’s largest lakes are shrinking with far-reaching consequences.

www.unep.org

Human rights, morality, and economics should guide our immigration policy, not protectionism and xenophobia.

Agreed with limits. 3 million open boarder policies will hurt more than help.

 

[fishonjazz]

Trump being trumpy again. Making the Queen of englands death about himself. He believes that Joe Biden and his wife were given poor seats for the funeral in a show of disrespect and that if he were president he would have got a much better seat.
What actually happened was that Bidens car got stuck in traffic and they took the seats available them upon arrival. They just sat down and didn't complain like normal humans.

I can only imagine what would happen if trump showed up and wasn't given the seat he thought he deserved. Probably would have thrown a fit/tantrum and made enemies of our allies.

Trump Makes Queen's Funeral All About Him, Says He Would Have Had Better Seat Than Biden

"LOCATION IS EVERYTHING!!!" wrote the former president, who was not invited to the queen's funeral.

www.yahoo.com