Its Time to Tank

[fishonjazz]

Or Detroit, or Houston, or Hornets, or even OKC, who has actually found great talent through the draft.

Could probably add the kings and twolves to the list


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[Handlogten's Heros]

Actually there is this generational talent named Victor that many teams are coveting and will tank for.


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Detroit, Houston, Orlando are currently the only obvious tankers. Charlotte may join them if Ball keeps getting hurt. Pacers are above .500 and their winning is being driven by guys in their 20s… SA is close to .500 and has the same type of thing going… same with OKC and they now will have a hard time shutting down SGA (he’s now good enough they need to worry much more about keeping him happy than getting more high picks). Kings desperately want to make the playoffs. Lakers, Clips, Nets, T wolves have no motivation to tank. We can get to the 6-8 range by simply moving at least one vet and replacing one vet on the rotation imo. Lauri has struggled to play all 82 in the past… he misses 10-20 games and you are right there imo.

 

[HermanG]

Or you could try educating yourself. For OKC they did a 2 year tank and are clearly exiting it already and that is with Chet not even playing. The hornets didn't even tank. They just have bad management. Detroit and Houston clearly tanked hard but they are pretty much starting with nothing. That isn't even close to being the case with us. We have so many young pieces that we aren't even capable to tanking hard like them. We just need to take a short step back this and probably next year to take a massive step forward in 2 years.

Educating myself? All I listed are teams that havent been able to come back that went to tank 2020 or earlier.

You dont think Hornets tried to tank in 2019 when they didnt give Walker the contract and traded him for Rozier? You yourself said it in the post above this one, is that there is "minor tanking" and hard tanking. Yet, Hornets do not qualify for either? Charlotte boards and media want a word with you. They were definitely talking tank 2019-20 season.

OKC got a haul for both PG and Westbrook. They lucked out big time on SGA as a part of PG trade who is right now carrying them, but time will tell if they become true contenders or not as a team. They didn't draft their biggest star, so it was not a result of "sucking your record" to get him. They have drafted well, but as you yourself said, they are only "exiting" the tank, not out of it.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

OKC and SA have many more sure fire solid future pieces than we do. As it sits we have 1 for sure… most likely 2 or 3. OKC has like 5-6 at least… SA has 4. I keep hearing we have too much young talent to lose but outside of Lauri no one else is really driving winning except the 30 year olds. Beasley/Vando/Kessler are contributing… but without Mike, JC, KO we’d be like 5 games off of where our current record is.

 

[Eddie Zero]

Detroit, Houston, Orlando are currently the only obvious tankers. Charlotte may join them if Ball keeps getting hurt. Pacers are above .500 and their winning is being driven by guys in their 20s… SA is close to .500 and has the same type of thing going… same with OKC and they now will have a hard time shutting down SGA (he’s now good enough they need to worry much more about keeping him happy than getting more high picks). Kings desperately want to make the playoffs. Lakers, Clips, Nets, T wolves have no motivation to tank. We can get to the 6-8 range by simply moving at least one vet and replacing one vet on the rotation imo. Lauri has struggled to play all 82 in the past… he misses 10-20 games and you are right there imo.

In fairness, I don't think Orlando is tanking anymore, they just still are not that good despite all that youth and upside. I honestly don't think OKC is tanking either, same situation there. Now are either of those orgs going out there moving picks and youth for vets no. I think there will be a lot of late season tanking obviously as it was in past couple years. If the Jazz are in the play in hunt I do not think they rest good players or sit them out due to minor injuries etc. If they are are already playing short-handed though, meaning they have long odds at winning in the first round, I think they will be in the lottery and nobody would say a word outside of Utah other than injuries hurt them.

 

[HermanG]

OKC and SA have many more sure fire solid future pieces than we do. As it sits we have 1 for sure… most likely 2 or 3. OKC has like 5-6 at least… SA has 4. I keep hearing we have too much young talent to lose but outside of Lauri no one else is really driving winning except the 30 year olds. Beasley/Vando/Kessler are contributing… but without Mike, JC, KO we’d be like 5 games off of where our current record is.

Sure fire pieces are guys who are already there. You dont know where their ceiling is. Until they start winning and producing big things, they are promising prospects.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Sure fire pieces are guys who are already there. You dont know where their ceiling is. Until they start winning and producing big things, they are promising prospects.

I know... OKC has SGA, Giddey, Dort, Jalen Williams, Chet... they also have a few guys that could still pop that have showed improvement. They are a good team and all the winning is being driven by their young guys. They are too good to tank down to like the high 20s in wins.

SA has Poeltl, Vassell, Johnson, Sochan, Jones that can all likely be part of the next SA playoff team. They also have like 60M in cap space next year to add win now talent.

We have Lauri, Kessler, Vando(?)... Beasley is young (in his prime) but it will cost 15M to keep him. I love Sexton but I am not banking on him being a piece you can build around.

Our winning is being driven much more by vets who won't be around in 2-3 years.

 

[HeatCheck]

Give me a one year mini tank. At this point it would be closer to a 60 game micro tank. We had our 10-3 but it's time to look to the future and winning games on the backs of 30 yo vets isn't it.

The 7th worst record has gotten lucky and moved up in the lottery every year since the new system was enacted. That's really all this team needs with all the other draft capital in their war chest.

 

[HermanG]

I know... OKC has SGA, Giddey, Dort, Jalen Williams, Chet... they also have a few guys that could still pop that have showed improvement. They are a good team and all the winning is being driven by their young guys. They are too good to tank down to like the high 20s in wins.

SA has Poeltl, Vassell, Johnson, Sochan, Jones that can all likely be part of the next SA playoff team. They also have like 60M in cap space next year to add win now talent.

We have Lauri, Kessler, Vando(?)... Beasley is young (in his prime) but it will cost 15M to keep him. I love Sexton but I am not banking on him being a piece you can build around.

Our winning is being driven much more by vets who won't be around in 2-3 years.

Consider this... imagine if we found (e.g. traded) a player who is near Mike Conley level and is 25 or younger, how would you feel about our future then? Are we still far away, or are we maybe monitoring superstars who want out of their teams just to give back some of the picks we got from our 2 hauls.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

We're going to win tomorrow against Phoenix and then the championship contender thread is going to blow up. Then we go on another losing streak and this thread gets bumped. It's going to be a little bit of an emotional rollercoaster until the trade deadline.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Consider this... imagine if we found (e.g. traded) a player who is near Mike Conley level and is 25 or younger, how would you feel about our future then? Are we still far away, or are we maybe monitoring superstars who want out of their teams just to give back some of the picks we got from our 2 hauls.

The argument against tanking imo... is you have those other picks that will convey and bring some all-stars later... trading some those to add a disgruntled star or a guy on Mike's level but younger is great and all but I'm not sure what the point of that is. If Ochai was showing some promise I might feel a bit differently but he's struggling with the stars right now. IF we currently had more long term pieces then by all means lets gun for the play in.

If we end up giving back picks to trade for a star I'm wondering why you traded both Donovan and Rudy... seems like 2 steps back 1 step forward. 25 year old stars don't get traded... so I assume that star is a bit older.

Hanging out in the middle has very little benefit long term if the reason you are hanging out in the middle is guys that won't be at this level in 2-3 years or will be gone. I think this path relies on hitting on a pick in the 12-16 range... which can happen but its a 25%ish proposition in any given year. I'd just rather cash in a vet... increase the odds and value on our own pick becoming an AS. If we are cashing in on the Minny/Cavs picks I'd rather use that capital to move up from the Sixers pick this year and get a late lotto if we can (like OKC and Detroit did this year).

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

We're going to win tomorrow against Phoenix and then the championship contender thread is going to blow up. Then we go on another losing streak and this thread gets bumped. It's going to be a little bit of an emotional rollercoaster until the trade deadline.

Phoenix is real good... if we win that game it will be a data point for me to consider... I still think we are like a 35 win team that outperformed our early schedule by 3 or 4 games.